Fatal Samui boat crash: Weather warnings 'ignored'

[webfact]

Fatal Thailand boat crash: Weather warnings 'ignored'

 

MANCHESTER: -- The captain of a Thai speedboat that crashed killing two Britons accelerated through waves after ignoring monsoon warnings, an inquest has heard.

 

Monica O'Connor, 28, and Jason Parnell, 46, died when the vessel capsized near the island of Koh Samui in Thaliand on 26 May 2016.

 

Thirty-two people were on board when the crash - in which a German and a Chinese national also died - occurred.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-42225971

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2017-12-05

 

[Samui Bodoh]

Yet another sad, preventable death.

 

And have steps been taken to prevent this from occurring again? I doubt it.

 

Same same, and the same again...

[PoorSucker]

May is not monsoon season on Koh Samui. 

You can get high waves, but monsoon season is Nov - Dec on Samui. 

[trogers]

43 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

May is not monsoon season on Koh Samui. 

You can get high waves, but monsoon season is Nov - Dec on Samui. 

To the British tabloid, it's monsoon season all year round because sensational stories sell.

[4evermaat]

Again?

Sent from my ASUS_Z010D using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Get Real]

32 people on a speed boat. Common sense tells a normal human beeing that it´s to much.

[Oztruckie]

Captain of the boat,that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while,these clowns operating these speed boats,I wouldn't let them anywhere near a toy boat let alone a boat carrying passengers.

[SilentReader]

This seems to refer to the accident in May 2016?

[spidermike007]

This is what happens, when you have a lazy, listless, disorganized, incompetent, slothful marine agency overseeing boating and licensing within the nation. These kinds of accidents per capita, are probably one of the highest in the world. The frequency with which they happen is astonishing. And nothing is ever done. Like anything else Little P. touches, all proclamations, laws, and regulations are forgotten within 15 days. On to the profit making ventures at hand. The people? He probably thinks they do not really matter. Tourist deaths? Oh, do not worry my dear. They will be soon forgotten. They are only commoners. Not important people. Do not give it another thought. The deaths will soon be in the distant past, and it does not mean much in the grand scheme of things. Thailand will forever be the beacon of world tourism. The planet cannot live without us. 

[PETERTHEEATER]

6 hours ago, Get Real said:

32 people on a speed boat. Common sense tells a normal human beeing that it´s to much.

Don't forget the four crew. The total aboard was 36 and the incident occurred in May 2106....A couple of other nationals died also as I recall.

[farcanell]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Yet another sad, preventable death.

 

And have steps been taken to prevent this from occurring again? I doubt it.

 

Same same, and the same again...

Apparently not.

 

last week, during severe weather warnings, a park official noted that boats were ignoring the warnings, putting people in danger, but also noted that there was nothing that could be done about it

 

obviously closing the park wasn’t considered.... nor, I suspect, was contacting the navy, who could offer some policing or emergency response. 

[natway09]

More concerned about having a fag     (sorry cigarette) on the beach.

Cmon General,,,, get a grip

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

Again?

Sent from my ASUS_Z010D using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No, 25th May 2016, the accident reported in the news a year and a half ago...

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, Get Real said:

32 people on a speed boat. Common sense tells a normal human beeing that it´s to much.

Depending of the size of the speedboat, and how it's equipped, and the pax-number it has been approved for. In the actual case however, it seem like being too many, as the equipment and safety procedures was not in order...

[Get Real]

11 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Depending of the size of the speedboat, and how it's equipped, and the pax-number it has been approved for. In the actual case however, it seem like being too many, as the equipment and safety procedures was not in order...

Yep, of course! According to me, there is not a lot of speedboats here that are registered for carrying 32 persons and a crew. However, they exists. I also believe that many of the speedboats here are registered for more thatn the designed capacity from the company that makes them. Guess it´s like same with the elevators. 

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This is what happens, when you have a lazy, listless, disorganized, incompetent, slothful marine agency overseeing boating and licensing within the nation. These kinds of accidents per capita, are probably one of the highest in the world. The frequency with which they happen is astonishing. And nothing is ever done. Like anything else Little P. touches, all proclamations, laws, and regulations are forgotten within 15 days. On to the profit making ventures at hand. The people? He probably thinks they do not really matter. Tourist deaths? Oh, do not worry my dear. They will be soon forgotten. They are only commoners. Not important people. Do not give it another thought. The deaths will soon be in the distant past, and it does not mean much in the grand scheme of things. Thailand will forever be the beacon of world tourism. The planet cannot live without us. 

Would be nice if there was a statistic with number of deaths and injured in recreational boat accidents in Thailand, for comparing to other parts of the World; I could not easily find one at Google-search, but perhaps there is one, which another poster can refer to. However, for comparison, 701 persons died from recreational boat accidents in USA in 2016, and 2.903 were injured. I'm not sure if the danger of is that much higer – or higher at all – compared to a number of other parts of the World; however need some reliable statistics to evaluate number of tourist death only, and some comparison per capital, fx. number of tourists visiting the country.

 

The source for the US stats is here: Number of deaths / injuries directly linked to boating accidents in the U.S. from 2002 to 2016.

 

From Thai authorities, and their statistics, 41% of all tourist death in Thailand in 2016 was Water accidents, and "only" 22% Road accidents, which I think many would consider higher in relative percentage, as we always read about how dangerous the traffic is: second most deathly in World, heading for a No.1 position in 2017. Water accidents includes the high number of tourists swimming in spite of "red flag" warnings – or even jumping into water falls – quite a number a year on Koh Samui, and many more than from boat accidents. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to share the stat graphics in this forum. 

 

By nationality the highest number of dead tourists originated from China, 79, whilst (to me amazingly) France comes in as second with 18 death, and Britain number three with 17, USA is four with 12, and Germany fifth with 11. These numbers includes all kind of death among tourists, of which medical problems is 3rd and accounts for 16%; suicides – or what has been classified as such by authorities, to prevent comments – by 7%; and finally others by 14%.

 

Most dangerous tourist province is Chiang May (combined death and accidents), with Surat Thani as second, including Koh Samui and her sisters, i.e. Koh Phangan and infamous Koh Tao.

 

The Marine Department at Samui do check speed boat operators, and are often present when speed boats are boarded, for example at the Full Moon Party commuting, where thousands of tourists cross the water between Samui and Phangan at night; and also during monsoon, like this time of the year. To my knowledge there has been two fatal FMP-commuting accidents only during the past 15-years.

 

If one take into consideration how many tourists that are commuting in speedboats between the islands in Thailand – Phuket area, including Phi Phi, also counts a lot; and so Pattay Bay must also do – and the number on injuries and death were know about from the media, speedboat travelling in Koh Samui-waters (edit) seem quite safe in my opinion. I'm a lot more worried about tourists that are doing something they would never do at home – I'm quoting a tourist in the news from Phuket, after a terrible accident that could easily have been avoided, if she had not done something utterly stupid – for example climbing and jumping into waterfalls, swimming in spite of red flags, and driving motorbikes without any experience; especially the latter when driving in my car at Samui, and the inexperienced tourist couple on a scooter in front of me skid, and fall right in front of my car...

Edited December 5, 2017 by khunPer

[observer90210]

Thai roads have become a symbol of chaos, anarchy and death tolls....looks that the seas of the country are no exception to the rule, and are trying to catch up with the road disaster statistics ?!!

 

Better wake up boys and take some serious prevention steps, because if not,  tourism is really going to collapse overnight when you will least expect it...

[webfact]

Thailand speedboat crash: 2 British tourists died after huge wave capsized boat

 

Monica O’Connor was honeymooning with her husband Tim when she died

 

TWO British tourists died in Thailand after their skipper took out a speedboat against weather warnings, an inquest heard yesterday.

 

Two British tourists died in Thailand after their speedboat capsized after being hit by a huge wave

Monica O’Connor, 28, was honeymooning with her husband Tim in Koh Samui last May.

 

Jason Parnell, 46, was celebrating his first wedding anniversary with his wife Puja.

 

Mrs O’Connor, from Sale, Manchester, and Mr Parnell, from Sileby, Leics, died after their boat was hit by a huge wave and capsized, Stockport coroner’s court was told.

 

Full story: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/888179/thailand-speedboat-crash-two-british-tourists-dead-koh-samui

 

-- EXPRESS 2017-12-06

[300sd]

Qualified licensed vessel operators do not endanger their passengers. They are captains that can be trusted to run the vessel properly.....Unfortunately for the visiting tourist passenger, they naively think that Thailand has rules and regulations for these captains. 

 

I would say the first rule to pass for these people movers should be an IQ test. As long as it's higher then mine they should be fine.

 

[craigt3365]

Sue the boat owners fo 30M Baht or more. That will change things quickly.

[spidermike007]

By nationality the highest number of dead tourists originated from China, 79, whilst (to me amazingly) France comes in as second with 18 death, and Britain number three with 17, USA is four with 12, and Germany fifth with 11. These numbers includes all kind of death among tourists, of which medical problems is 3rd and accounts for 16%; suicides – or what has been classified as such by authorities, to prevent comments – by 7%; and finally others by 14%.

 

If there is anything you can be absolutely, positively, without any doubt whatsoever, sure of, it is that the number quoted above is fake. Fake news. Fake facts. Doctored to the extreme. Thailand does absolutely everything in it's power, to make the place appear safer than it is. That included lying about fatalities, using bizarre methods to calculate fatalities, and fudging the numbers more than the White House does, if that is even possible. So, rest assured. Those numbers are far, far higher. From what I am told, by reliable sources without an agenda, there are over 30 deaths per month, on Samui alone, on the roads. And at least half of them are probably foreigners. That is more than the total figure above. 

[farcanell]

23 hours ago, khunPer said:

The source for the US stats is here: Number of deaths / injuries directly linked to boating accidents in the U.S. from 2002 to 2016.

Recreational boat death stats are somewhat irrelevant.... with recreational boats having little to no safety features, in comparison with commercial boats.

 

Statistics... bloody statistics

 

anyway... with duty of care etc etc etc, commercial boating should be safer, or there is definitely an expectation that it should be....

 

of course, this does require following laws, rules and guidelines, with these being auditable....Sooo... with the fore knowledge that this just ain’t going to happen, check your travel insurance policy before boarding.

[khunPer]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

By nationality the highest number of dead tourists originated from China, 79, whilst (to me amazingly) France comes in as second with 18 death, and Britain number three with 17, USA is four with 12, and Germany fifth with 11. These numbers includes all kind of death among tourists, of which medical problems is 3rd and accounts for 16%; suicides – or what has been classified as such by authorities, to prevent comments – by 7%; and finally others by 14%.

 

If there is anything you can be absolutely, positively, without any doubt whatsoever, sure of, it is that the number quoted above is fake. Fake news. Fake facts. Doctored to the extreme. Thailand does absolutely everything in it's power, to make the place appear safer than it is. That included lying about fatalities, using bizarre methods to calculate fatalities, and fudging the numbers more than the White House does, if that is even possible. So, rest assured. Those numbers are far, far higher. From what I am told, by reliable sources without an agenda, there are over 30 deaths per month, on Samui alone, on the roads. And at least half of them are probably foreigners. That is more than the total figure above. 

Around 15 percent (plus/minus a few percent in deviation over time) of all recorded traffic accidents at Samui involves foreigners – however the number of 30 to 70 death a month has been mentioned, but not documented, as it's statistically said to be depending of a victim is declared dead on sight, or at hospital – foreigners that had died in traffic accidents are often reported in media, so the numbers are probably not that secret...

 

I don't believe everything in Thailand is "fake news" or "fake facts", but I agree in, that sometime the authorities are silent about incidents, until it's reported in a (critical) media...

 

Below stat was originally shared by ROKS (Road of Koh Samui traffic awareness group), I don't now if it also originates from there; however it's was supposed to illustrate the difference in measuring methods...

[khunPer]

36 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Recreational boat death stats are somewhat irrelevant.... with recreational boats having little to no safety features, in comparison with commercial boats.

 

Statistics... bloody statistics

 

anyway... with duty of care etc etc etc, commercial boating should be safer, or there is definitely an expectation that it should be....

 

of course, this does require following laws, rules and guidelines, with these being auditable....Sooo... with the fore knowledge that this just ain’t going to happen, check your travel insurance policy before boarding.

Do we know the number of deaths, year by year, in commercial boat and/or commercial speedboat accidents in Samui-waters..?

Do we have any kind of stats from other parts of both Thailand – seem like there are numerous accidents reported from Phuket area – or countries in the World in general..?

 

As I said: »I could not easily find one at Google-search, but perhaps there is one, which another poster can refer to«, so please help with some facts...

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Around 15 percent (plus/minus a few percent in deviation over time) of all recorded traffic accidents at Samui involves foreigners – however the number of 30 to 70 death a month has been mentioned, but not documented, as it's statistically said to be depending of a victim is declared dead on sight, or at hospital – foreigners that had died in traffic accidents are often reported in media, so the numbers are probably not that secret...

 

I don't believe everything in Thailand is "fake news" or "fake facts", but I agree in, that sometime the authorities are silent about incidents, until it's reported in a (critical) media...

 

Below stat was originally shared by ROKS (Road of Koh Samui traffic awareness group), I don't now if it also originates from there; however it's was supposed to illustrate the difference in measuring methods...

 

So, there you have it. Koh Samui has the highest deaths per capita, on the planet. Measures by EEC standards. Which are going to be far more fair, and accurate than Thai government standards. Who has the agenda, after all?

[scubascuba3]

It was the same 20 years ago on those Islands. Not much progress then

[FitnessHealthTravel]

17 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Around 15 percent (plus/minus a few percent in deviation over time) of all recorded traffic accidents at Samui involves foreigners – however the number of 30 to 70 death a month has been mentioned, but not documented, as it's statistically said to be depending of a victim is declared dead on sight, or at hospital – foreigners that had died in traffic accidents are often reported in media, so the numbers are probably not that secret...

 

I don't believe everything in Thailand is "fake news" or "fake facts", but I agree in, that sometime the authorities are silent about incidents, until it's reported in a (critical) media...

 

Below stat was originally shared by ROKS (Road of Koh Samui traffic awareness group), I don't now if it also originates from there; however it's was supposed to illustrate the difference in measuring methods...

Actually I think the above chart is firstly incorrect. Thailand is now Number 1 in traffic deaths per 100,000 people. You are correct about the measurement of deaths being different. Thailand measures ' Dead on scene' not even in transit to Hospital or dead on arrival or after treatment. I think a quick call around to the 5 International and 1 public Hospital on Samui will confirm your number (not that they would probably give it out.) There is a HUGE difference between 30 to 70 deaths per month.

[khunPer]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

So, there you have it. Koh Samui has the highest deaths per capita, on the planet. Measures by EEC standards. Which are going to be far more fair, and accurate than Thai government standards. Who has the agenda, after all?

Yes, about 130 by 100,000 population, which is around 60,000 at Koh Samui; i.e. some 80 traffic death a year, or 6-7 a month, instead of the 2-4 often reported (before, when we could see the police report in the printed local newspaper) as monthly figure...

 

I however found a stat with number of British tourists dying abroad, and that says 4,110 in 2013/2014.

 

An article in Daily Express 15th January 2016, "These popular beach holiday hotspots see HUNDREDS of British deaths every year" says that "In 2014 and 2015, 3,760 British people died abroad", which seem to include both expats and tourists. Number one country is Spain – "One of the main reasons why Spain is the most common place for Brits to die is because it has a huge number of ex-pats living there" – and number three is (surprisingly to me) Switzeland, however...

Quote

Second to Spain is Thailand. 

It was found that 150 British tourists had died in 2015 alone.

A fifth of that number died in the Thai resort of Pattaya, notorious for its strip clubs and sex bars. 

It was cars and motorcycle crashes that claimed the most amount of lives, with most of the victims possessing a high level of alcohol in their system.

 

[khunPer]

14 minutes ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

Actually I think the above chart is firstly incorrect. Thailand is now Number 1 in traffic deaths per 100,000 people. You are correct about the measurement of deaths being different. Thailand measures ' Dead on scene' not even in transit to Hospital or dead on arrival or after treatment. I think a quick call around to the 5 International and 1 public Hospital on Samui will confirm your number (not that they would probably give it out.) There is a HUGE difference between 30 to 70 deaths per month.

The graphic might be a few years old – my file-date is from August 2016, when I downloaded it – the measure per 100,000 of population is (normally) per year.

 

I would think it's higher the some 6-7 death a month in average, but I might be wrong...

 

Thailand has been shifting between No.2 and No.3 in the official WHO traffic death statistics during the past years, however Thai media wrote recently about the number of death in traffic seem to be rising this year, and therefore the nation is heading for becoming No.1...

Edited December 6, 2017 by khunPer

[farcanell]

35 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Do we know the number of deaths, year by year, in commercial boat and/or commercial speedboat accidents in Samui-waters..?

Do we have any kind of stats from other parts of both Thailand – seem like there are numerous accidents reported from Phuket area – or countries in the World in general..?

 

As I said: »I could not easily find one at Google-search, but perhaps there is one, which another poster can refer to«, so please help with some facts...

That’s the problem.... no reliable information, just state kept secrets. And that’s being generous, because it presumes that the state actually knows what the information is.

 

im sure you could easily google the information for more responsible countries... not so much for others... like N Korea. (What’s up there with those fishermen being found half dead in Japan)

 

a very quick look (2 links) showed this for NSW; (see chart)

15 dead recreationally... 1 dead commercially 2014/15

 

australia has about 1/3 of Thailand’s population (?.).... so... very roughly, thailand (run properly.... I crack myself up) would be on par with NSW if there were 3 or 4 deaths annually

 

a huge difference for tourists or paying users.... and... I’m not sure if this fatality was a user or a provider