webfact Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Defying warnings of unrest, Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital By Steve Holland and Miriam Berger U.S. President Donald Trump holds up the proclamation that announces the United States recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moving its embassy there, during an address from the White House in Washington, U.S., December 6, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque WASHINGTON/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - President Donald Trump abruptly reversed decades of U.S. policy on Wednesday and recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, generating outrage from Palestinians and defying warnings of unrest in the Middle East. Drawing praise from Israel, Trump said in a speech in the White House that his administration would begin a process of moving the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a step expected to take years and one that his predecessors avoided so as not to inflame tensions. A general view shows part of Jerusalem's Old City and the Dome of the Rock December 5, 2017 REUTERS/Ammar Awad The status of Jerusalem -- home to sites holy to the Muslim, Jewish and Christian religions -- is one of the thorniest obstacles to reaching a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians. The international community does not recognise Israeli sovereignty over the entire city, believing its status should be resolved in negotiations. "I have determined that it is time to officially recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel," Trump said. "While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver. Today, I am delivering." Trump's decision jeopardizes the United States' historical role as a mediator in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and frays relations with Arab allies that Washington relies on to help it oppose Iran and fight Sunni Islamist militants. Israel considers the city its eternal and indivisible capital and wants all embassies based there. Palestinians want the capital of an independent Palestinian state to be in the city's eastern sector, which Israel captured in a 1967 war and annexed in a move never recognised internationally. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hailed Trump’s announcement as a “historic landmark" and urged other countries also to move their embassies in Israel to Jerusalem. Netanyahu said any peace deal with Palestinians must include Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. This would be a non-starter for Palestinians if it means the entire city would be under Israeli control. PALESTINIANS UPSET Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday called the city "the eternal capital of the state of Palestine." Abbas said Trump’s decision was tantamount to the United States abdicating its peace mediator role. Palestinians say Trump's move will mean the "kiss of death" to the two-state solution, which envisions a Palestinian state in territory - the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem - that Israel took in 1967. No other country has its embassy in Jerusalem. Two small Latin American states, El Salvador and Costa Rica, previously had embassies in Jerusalem before shifting them to Tel Aviv in 2006, saying they wanted to abide with international norms. Trump has tilted U.S. policy toward Israel since taking office in January, considering it a strong ally. His decision on Jerusalem fulfils a campaign promise and will please Republican conservatives and evangelicals who make up a sizeable portion of his base of support. Otherwise, the political benefits for him are unclear. “He cannot expect to side entirely with Israel on the most sensitive and complex issues in the process, and yet expect the Palestinians to see the United States as an honest broker,” said former U.S. Ambassador to Israel Daniel Kurtzer. “His stated desire for doing the 'ultimate deal' is now a casualty of his own policy naivete," Kurtzer said. Pope Francis called for Jerusalem's status quo to be respected, saying new tension would further inflame world conflicts. China and Russia expressed concern the plans could aggravate Middle East hostilities. Several hundred protesters gathered outside the U.S. consulate in Istanbul over Trump’s decision. French President Emmanuel Macron said Trump’s announcement was “regrettable” and one that Paris does not support. U.N. chief Antonio Guterres said there was no alternative to the two-state solution, “There is no Plan B.” Trump said his move is not intended to tip the scale in favour of Israel and that any deal involving the future of Jerusalem would have to be negotiated by the parties. Seeking to soften the blow of his announcement to the Palestinians, he insisted he was not taking a position on “any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders." Other key disputes between the two sides include the fate of Palestinian refugees and Jewish settlements built on occupied land. Trump made no mention of settlements. He said he remained committed to the two-state solution if the parties want one. The president called on the region to take his message calmly. "There will of course be disagreement and dissent regarding this announcement but we are confident that ultimately, as we work through these disagreements, we will arrive at a place of greater understanding and cooperation," Trump said. Trump said his move reflected the reality of Jerusalem as the centre of Jewish faith and the fact that the city is the seat of the Israeli government. Trump acted under a 1995 law that requires the United States to move its embassy to Jerusalem. His predecessors, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama, had consistently put off that decision to avoid inflaming tensions in the Middle East. Trump ordered a delay to any embassy move from Tel Aviv since the United States does not have an embassy in Jerusalem to move into. A senior administration official said it could take three to four years to build one. (Additional reporting by Matt Spetalnick, Doina Chiacu, David Alexander in Washington, Ali Sawafta in Ramallah and Ori Lewis in Jerusalem; Editing by Yara Bayoumy and Alistair Bell) -- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasteddie Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 For decades, world leaders were terrified what of how the Palestinians and the Arab will response to such move, they all foresaw unrest, upheaval blood and fire in the streets, now we shall see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habanero Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) December 6, 2017, President Donald Trump announced the decision to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel, and the move to relocate the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. However, moments after the announcement, President Trump signed a Presidential Memorandum for the Secretary of State (Presidential Determination No. 2018-02): a waiver that again effectively stops the U.S. Embassy from being moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem Edited December 6, 2017 by habanero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 1 hour ago, ezzra said: For decades, world leaders were terrified what of how the Palestinians and the Arab will response to such move, they all foresaw unrest, upheaval blood and fire in the streets, now we shall see...... Judaism also doesn't allow to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of a Jewish state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiaexpat Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 The UN recognized the unique status of Jerusalem when they declared special status for it. Trump's declaration will endanger not only those in the middle east, but Americans around the world. This is tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 If it were not for the loss of life I would say bomb the whole place off the face of the earth and then maybe, finally, we can have a world free of all religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishcarlos Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, car720 said: If it were not for the loss of life I would say bomb the whole place off the face of the earth and then maybe, finally, we can have a world free of all religion. You will never have a world free of all religion... What made you think that was even possible ?? Would be great but never gonna happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
British Bulldog Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Its a pity they couldn't build an Embassy on 'No-mans-land' and give access to both Countries ... or not bother with an Embassy at all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasset Tak Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 If this means that US citizens living/working around the world will be more heavily targeted after this, then they can only blame themselves for putting a buffoon in charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMHERE Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I doubt US citizens living/working around the world are going to be any more heavily targeted by muslims and arabs than they are presently. They already do as much as they can. There is no appeasing them, not even Chamberlain could make them happy. They have targeted us (non-muslims) since the 11th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 48 minutes ago, IAMHERE said: I doubt US citizens living/working around the world are going to be any more heavily targeted by muslims and arabs than they are presently. They already do as much as they can. There is no appeasing them, not even Chamberlain could make them happy. They have targeted us (non-muslims) since the 11th century. Which is why Muslims ruled over large communities of Christians in the Middle East, the Balkans, and elsewhere for centuries. And over Hindus in the Indian subcontinent for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexterm Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) OP... 'Seeking to soften the blow of his announcement to the Palestinians, he insisted he was not taking a position on “any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders."' So, if technically there is no change in final status issues, it beggars the question why make this recognition move just now? Why create such a hullabaloo unnecessarily so close to the presentation of his so called "ultimate deal"? Is he trying to distract from the Russian inquiry? Is he simply pandering to his domestic fan base of fanatical Zionists and evangelical Christians? Is he trying to provoke a war? Is he trying to provoke the Palestinians to be the first to reject his ultimate deal talks? Trump has certainly not won American diplomacy in the region or the world stage any plaudits. Now would be a good time for the Palestinians to up the ante also, by reapplying for full UN member status, and prosecuting Israel in the ICC for its war crimes and invasion of their homeland. Palestinians do not have an army, nor huge trade deals, nor influential friends in high places in the US admin. The one card it wont play (which must infuriate Israel) is recognizing its legitimacy, while the injustice of a 50 year illegal occupation remains. Edited December 7, 2017 by dexterm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMuhammad Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 5 hours ago, ezzra said: For decades, world leaders were terrified what of how the Palestinians and the Arab will response to such move, they all foresaw unrest, upheaval blood and fire in the streets, now we shall see...... And there is so much peace and quiet now? It definitely can’t make anything worse. Trump, standing my his promises. A rare breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMuhammad Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Kasset Tak said: If this means that US citizens living/working around the world will be more heavily targeted after this, then they can only blame themselves for putting a buffoon in charge... Even more than they are now? I think it’s foolish to think this will make matters worse. All it will do is give more ‘reasons’ to their empty cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnapat Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Trump v the rest of the world. Nothing new in that. World peace gets more precarious each day he remains in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becker Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, MadMuhammad said: And there is so much peace and quiet now? It definitely can’t make anything worse. Yes, they can. They can get much, much worse and they likely will due to the fact that a petulant man-child is inhabiting the WH. Shame on the people who voted for this abomination and still support him. You truly are deplorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 6 hours ago, habanero said: December 6, 2017, President Donald Trump announced the decision to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel, and the move to relocate the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. However, moments after the announcement, President Trump signed a Presidential Memorandum for the Secretary of State (Presidential Determination No. 2018-02): a waiver that again effectively stops the U.S. Embassy from being moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem Now why on earth could that be, do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 4 hours ago, rudi49jr said: So the Palestinians have no say in this? Just saying ... No, why should they ? West Jerusalem is part of Israel, no one disputes that . The Palestinians want the other half for themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, Krataiboy said: Now why on earth could that be, do you think? Just a technicality . Something like he needs to sign the 6 month waiver to stop some Gov offices from being fined for not carrying it out , or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, sanemax said: Just a technicality . Something like he needs to sign the 6 month waiver to stop some Gov offices from being fined for not carrying it out , or something like that Hope you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 7 hours ago, ezzra said: For decades, world leaders were terrified what of how the Palestinians and the Arab will response to such move, they all foresaw unrest, upheaval blood and fire in the streets, now we shall see...... Previously ,Western Governments were terrified of upsetting Muslims , Scared of Gaddafi , Saddam and Bin Laden and the PLO etc . That is no longer the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Krataiboy said: Hope you're right. .In 1995, the US Congress passed the so-called Jerusalem Embassy Act recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and stating that the US Embassy should be moved there.But a built-in waiver, which allows the president to temporarily postpone the move on grounds of “national security,” has been repeatedly invoked by successive US presidents, from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush and Barack Obama, meaning the law has never taken effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 And there is so much peace and quiet now? It definitely can’t make anything worse. Trump, standing my his promises. A rare breed. Can't get worse huh? Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 "The more threatening non-white, non-Christians appear, both at home and abroad, the more his supporters rely on him to keep the barbarians down and out. If Trump has to invent these dangers, he will. In the case of Jerusalem, however, he can go further: He can help create them.” https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/12/trump-announcement-jerusalem-israel-capital-muslim-violence/547652/?wpisrc=nl_todayworld&wpmm=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 2 hours ago, dexterm said: OP... 'Seeking to soften the blow of his announcement to the Palestinians, he insisted he was not taking a position on “any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders."' So, if technically there is no change in final status issues, it beggars the question why make this recognition move just now? Why create such a hullabaloo unnecessarily so close to the presentation of his so called "ultimate deal"? Is he trying to distract from the Russian inquiry? Is he simply pandering to his domestic fan base of fanatical Zionists and evangelical Christians? Is he trying to provoke a war? Is he trying to provoke the Palestinians to be the first to reject his ultimate deal talks? Trump has certainly not won American diplomacy in the region or the world stage any plaudits. Now would be a good time for the Palestinians to up the ante also, by reapplying for full UN member status, and prosecuting Israel in the ICC for its war crimes and invasion of their homeland. Palestinians do not have an army, nor huge trade deals, nor influential friends in high places in the US admin. The one card it wont play (which must infuriate Israel) is recognizing its legitimacy, while the injustice of a 50 year illegal occupation remains. The Palestinians would gain nothing much from perusing the course of action you prescribe. Even if the suggested diplomatic and legal endeavors will be successful, which is far from guaranteed. As it stands, the Palestinians do not have a leadership capable of making the sort of decisions that need to be taken, nor does it have the capacity to follow through. The Palestinians remain divided, and without the social and political infrastructure required to build a sustainable self governance, let alone an independent, democratic state. As usual, you seem to disregard any negative consequences associated with taking such a course of action, or the very real possibility that regional (and even global) circumstances and factors will change (and not necessarily for the Palestinians' benefit). Much like Trump, you seem to favor showmanship and drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) If anyone had any doubts as to Trumps credentials in the area of peacemaking before, they have their answer now. There is virtually no doubt, that this tone deaf, mindless, insensitive move, that can only be interpreted as pandering to a large group of incredibly ignorant, fundamentalist supporters, is going to lead to decades of war, conflicts, and thousands of deaths. Congratulations to Trump and Netanyahu. You have just made the world a less stable place. This man is wholly unfit for the office of president. Every day he wakes up, the world is a less stable place, and there is less of a chance for peace in the world. He must be declared as the insane man he is. He needs to get back on his meds. Something happened to him as a child, or an adolescent, to make him the hateful, vengeful, warmongering, misogynistic man he is today, completely lacking even a nanogram of ethics, morality, or sound judgment. He is perhaps, one of the most dangerous men, in the world today. Every single thing this man touches, turns to crap. He has the anti-midas touch. Some would label that as the very definition of insanity. Unstable? Unhinged? Hell bent on destruction? That is the understatement of the day. Edited December 7, 2017 by spidermike007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just when we thought the Middle East was calming down a bit, the mad bull finds another china shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 3 hours ago, British Bulldog said: Its a pity they couldn't build an Embassy on 'No-mans-land' and give access to both Countries ... or not bother with an Embassy at all ! From a diplomatic or a practical point of view this may impossible, or unnecessarily complicated, though. There are some tracts of land which are defined as "no-man's-land" between East and West Jerusalem. As far as I recall, the USA even leases or owns such real estate. Obviously, these will not end up being "no-man's-land" under a peace agreement though. As it stands, there is no Palestinian state (or to put it otherwise, the USA does not recognize it). So any embassy built now would be an embassy to Israel. Building it on a "no-man's-land" could lead to allegations by the Palestinians that it indicates support for territorial changes. The USA does have a consulate in Jerusalem, which operates semi-independently from the embassy, and is dedicated to dealing with the Palestinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 7 hours ago, Thorgal said: Judaism also doesn't allow to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of a Jewish state. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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