DIY Working in and around own house

[Foozool]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

In reality getting paid or not doesn't come into it.

Lots of people would love to help out at local schools etc without pay but they can't because it would be classed as working.

People trying to help at the time of the Tsunami were at times getting hassle for not having WP's.

School is not your own house !!!

we are talking about "own" house.

Will you get paid for your house work ?

i guess not. 

[puchooay]

5 minutes ago, Foozool said:

School is not your own house !!!

we are talking about "own" house.

Will you get paid for your house work ?

i guess not. 

Getting paid is not the issue here. Voluntary work also requires a work permit.

[bluesofa]

8 minutes ago, Foozool said:

School is not your own house !!!

we are talking about "own" house.

Will you get paid for your house work ?

i guess not. 

Being pedantic again, IIRC, isn't the definition of work by immigration as the 'expenditure of energy, physical or mental' regarding working, not just being paid for something?

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, Foozool said:

School is not your own house !!!

we are talking about "own" house.

Will you get paid for your house work ?

i guess not. 

I don't do housework, the maid does.

Building a brick wall, building your own garage etc etc you won't be getting paid but that won't stop someone reporting you because 'they' think you should be paying a Thai to do it. If they report you to Imm'/police ( same thing anyway ) you will get a visit.

[dave moir]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

Sure, there is a definition. According to the Working of Alien Act 2008:

Section 4 contains some exceptions, relating to diplomatic staff.

 

The literal wording of the Act makes almost any activity illegal. As a practical matter, enforcement is more pragmatic. In fact, there are quite a few areas (such as business meetings and attendance at trade shows) where the authorities have announced you will not be prosecuted for lack of a work permit. There are numerous other categories of work (for instance, digital nomads with exclusively overseas clients) that we know are tolerated based on lack of enforcement even though they can easily be found in co-working spaces. Driving yourself (and even driving friends without charging fares) is obviously acceptable, as is routine maintenance of your own property. Major structural alteration of a property, if it came to the attention of the authorities, and especially if a prelude to sale, would likely not be tolerated.

 

I do not think it is possible to draw a clear line between what is and is not tolerated. Pretty much everything is illegal under the latter of the law.

So does that mean you can't wipe your own backside after going to the loo cos a Thai can do that! 

[chickenrunCM]

53 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I don't do housework, the maid does.

Building a brick wall, building your own garage etc etc you won't be getting paid but that won't stop someone reporting you because 'they' think you should be paying a Thai to do it. If they report you to Imm'/police ( same thing anyway ) you will get a visit.

how you know that ? you ever get a visit or you know somebody who got a visit? 

it´s crazy how people putting here false information up,

you can fix, maintain even built a house on your land (wifes, gf, or rented land/house)

you can fix your bke, your car, change the engine, paint it, built furniture, how long you do it for yourselve nothing haoend or is against the law.

Voluntary work can be done only for other party, you can´t do voluntary for yourselve or your family.

It is not the problem, that comon sense is missing in Thailand, the problem is it is missing here at Thai Visa 

with all the people who spreed rumors and dont know anything. Go away from your PC and get a real life!

[Foozool]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

Being pedantic again, IIRC, isn't the definition of work by immigration as the 'expenditure of energy, physical or mental' regarding working, not just being paid for something?

In that case, those foreign who do beach cleaning or fixing roads will be in trouble as well, right !

At own house work for major works we need to hire some people. It won't be accomplished by one man anyway. 

Just don't make anyone upset in the neiborhood by selfishness. 

Nothing is certain for farang in LOS.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Foozool

[Foozool]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

I don't do housework, the maid does.

Building a brick wall, building your own garage etc etc you won't be getting paid but that won't stop someone reporting you because 'they' think you should be paying a Thai to do it. If they report you to Imm'/police ( same thing anyway ) you will get a visit.

You are absolutely right, but any major job can not be done by one man (owner) anyway (or at least I can not do it alone). Worker or workers need to be hired. Minor jobs won't be noticed.

And having good friendship with neighbors = less trouble

 

[overherebc]

23 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

how you know that ? you ever get a visit or you know somebody who got a visit? 

it´s crazy how people putting here false information up,

you can fix, maintain even built a house on your land (wifes, gf, or rented land/house)

you can fix your bke, your car, change the engine, paint it, built furniture, how long you do it for yourselve nothing haoend or is against the law.

Voluntary work can be done only for other party, you can´t do voluntary for yourselve or your family.

It is not the problem, that comon sense is missing in Thailand, the problem is it is missing here at Thai Visa 

with all the people who spreed rumors and dont know anything. Go away from your PC and get a real life!

I do know someone who got pulled for checking/counting the number of cases of beer delivered to his bar. He wasn't serving, wasn't taking cash etc etc. Imm'police in plain clothes were sitting in the bar at the time. Easy money for them.

One night inside and 50,000 baht to get out was asked for. He bargained it down to 20,000.

Yes you can do everything around your house in your garage in your garden without a problem but if a local makes a complaint or reports you as working as I said you will most likely get a visit. Nothing will come of it when it's clear it's your own property but it's very possible, the visit that is.

[BritTim]

33 minutes ago, dave moir said:

So does that mean you can't wipe your own backside after going to the loo cos a Thai can do that! 

Regardless of what the law might imply, I do not think immigration is likely to be able to gather evidence of your transgression in depriving a Thai of this employment (always assuming you are in the habit of carrying out this activity in private).

 

More interesting, perhaps, is the question of whether you are allowed to change your baby's diaper (nappy).

[atyclb]

a separate work permit is required for each of the activities,  painting interior wall, painting exterior wall, installing roof, installing floor, removing old bathroom tile, installing new tile. cutting grass, washing car, cleaning air con, and finally if an exceptional amount of work and effort is required; taking a dump.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, atyclb said:

a separate work permit is required for each of the activities,  painting interior wall, painting exterior wall, installing roof, installing floor, removing old bathroom tile, installing new tile. cutting grass, washing car, cleaning air con, and finally if an exceptional amount of work and effort is required; taking a dump.

Dish washing??

[atyclb]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Dish washing??

forgot, sorry

[JayBird]

I don't take chances. I tell my gf I can't clean the house or do the laundry as I don't have a work permit, therefore she has to do it.

 

If she complains it's too much work it just reinforces my argument.

[LivinLOS]

16 hours ago, elviajero said:

No that's complete nonsense.

 

There is no law against you doing any of those things on your own property. You are not being employed by anyone or carrying out a business/job/occupation etc.

 

 

Phuket someone charged when working on his own boat, fully charged legally. 

 

Phuket someone 'fined' when painting a house, fines paid and never truly followed up. 

 

The law is open to abuse on both sides. 

[stevenl]

22 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Phuket someone charged when working on his own boat, fully charged legally. 

 

Phuket someone 'fined' when painting a house, fines paid and never truly followed up. 

 

The law is open to abuse on both sides. 

No, there were 2 people working on the boat, and it was being build to be sold. The original story was corrected later.

Edited December 9, 2017 by stevenl

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

I do know someone who got pulled for checking/counting the number of cases of beer delivered to his bar. He wasn't serving, wasn't taking cash etc etc. Imm'police in plain clothes were sitting in the bar at the time. Easy money for them.

One night inside and 50,000 baht to get out was asked for. He bargained it down to 20,000.

Yes you can do everything around your house in your garage in your garden without a problem but if a local makes a complaint or reports you as working as I said you will most likely get a visit. Nothing will come of it when it's clear it's your own property but it's very possible, the visit that is.

The question and discussion is about exerting effort in your own house, not in a commercial enterprise.

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, there were 2 people working on the boat, and it was being build to be sold. The original story was corrected later.

But it was 'his boat'.. You would assume a house would be sold later also. 

 

Fact is it was his own possession, and he was charged for working on it (sale or not).. How is that different from owning any other form of property ??

I am not saying the law is right, or the chance of being charged is high, I am pointing out that it has actually happened. The law is open to abuse on both sides due to its utterly ridiculous definition and reach.

The definition even uses the word it is attempting to define, in the definition "work is work" total logic fail from the outset. 

[John Than]

Giv me your name and address and I will prove it to you that even if I wanted to I CANNOT create trouble for you. You havent lived long enough if you havent understood trouble, my friend. And by long enough I dont mean time-wise. 

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

I cannot say for certain that your interpretation is wrong. However, I think it would have been easy enough to add "carried out for someone else" to the definition of "work" within the act if all activities on your own behalf were considered OK. It is very sloppy drafting of the law if that qualification was inadvertently omitted.

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

 

Again, you are conflating the definition of work within the employment act with everyday life. The employment act exists to govern the employment of foreigners, so unless the OP is being employed, the employment act, and any definitions therein, are completely irrelevant. Surely you understand the relationship of an employer and employee in the context of employment (work)? It is that relationship, in that context, that the definition is needed to prevent employers circumventing the need for permission (WP).

 

It's not sloppy or omitted. The definition of work is within the employment act, and employees by definition, 'carry out work for someone else'! 

 

 

[bluesofa]

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The question and discussion is about exerting effort in your own house, not in a commercial enterprise.

Is that for sure - are you certain about that? I don't know if there's an official definition regarding separating home from work (even though you could work at home).

From what I've read, the decision seems to be always "at the discretion of the investigating officer".

 

I'm not trying to make a clever point, it's a straight question.

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Is that for sure - are you certain about that? I don't know if there's an official definition regarding separating home from work (even though you could work at home).

From what I've read, the decision seems to be always "at the discretion of the investigating officer".

 

I'm not trying to make a clever point, it's a straight question.

If he decides you are working it's up to you to prove you were not.

[Marius Brok]

What to do if one is buying building materials for a house of wife and transport it with a rented car?

 

[overherebc]

23 minutes ago, Marius Brok said:

What to do if one is buying building materials for a house of wife and transport it with a rented car?

 

Just do it. No-one will care.

 

24 minutes ago, Marius Brok said:

What to do if one is buying building materials for a house of wife and transport it with a rented car?

 

 

[BritTim]

50 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It's not sloppy or omitted. The definition of work is within the employment act, and employees by definition, 'carry out work for someone else'! 

I still do not agree with you, but this will be my last post on this topic. Let us say you wanted to finance your stay here by buying old cars, restoring them and then selling them. I claim that would be against the Immigration Act and Alien Employment Act. You seem to be saying it would be allowed because there is no employer/employee relationship involved. Am I misrepresenting your position?

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I still do not agree with you, but this will be my last post on this topic. Let us say you wanted to finance your stay here by buying old cars, restoring them and then selling them. I claim that would be against the Immigration Act and Alien Employment Act. You seem to be saying it would be allowed because there is no employer/employee relationship involved. Am I misrepresenting your position?

Agree 100%.

[pearciderman]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

Regardless of what the law might imply, I do not think immigration is likely to be able to gather evidence of your transgression in depriving a Thai of this employment (always assuming you are in the habit of carrying out this activity in private).

 

More interesting, perhaps, is the question of whether you are allowed to change your baby's diaper (nappy).

 

Nowhere does any law/rule or regulation mention "depriving a Thai" of a job ! People still post this myth. There is the list of prohibited professions - no mention of Thais or deprivation!

[bluesofa]

6 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

Nowhere does any law/rule or regulation mention "depriving a Thai" of a job ! People still post this myth. There is the list of prohibited professions - no mention of Thais or deprivation!

At the risk of being boring, this is the latest copy I have.

Not sure if there have been any minor changes recently - there has been talk about some though:

 

Updated and released Oct 26th 2006 by the Royal Thai Government.

Annex attached to the Royal Decree
Prescribing works relating to occupation and professional in which an alien is prohibited to engage B.E.2522

1. Manual work
2. Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision
3. Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works
4. Wood carving
5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting
6. Shop attendance
7. Auction
8. Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions
9. Cutting or polishing jewelry
10. Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment
11. Cloth weaving by hand
12. Weaving of mate or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo pellicle
13. Making of Sa paper by hand
14. Lacquer ware making
15. Making of Thai musical instrument
16. Niello ware making
17. Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy
18. Bronze ware making
19. Making of Thai dolls
20. Making of mattress or quilt blanket
21. Alms bowls casting
22. Making of silk products by hand
23. Casting of Buddha images
24. Knife making
25. Making of paper of cloth umbrella
26. Shoemaking
27. Hat Making
28. Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business
29. Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work
30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising
31. Garments making
32. Pottery or ceramic ware making
33. Cigarette making by hand
34. Guide or conducting sightseeing tours
35. Street Vending
36. Type setting of Thai characters by hand
37. Drawing and twisting silk-thread by hand
38. Office or secretarial work
39. Legal or lawsuit services

 

[pearciderman]

2 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Updated and released Oct 26th 2006 by the Royal Thai Government.

Annex attached to the Royal Decree
Prescribing works relating to occupation and professional in which an alien is prohibited to engage B.E.2522

 

Thank you for proving my point, no mention of depriving a Thai of work.

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, pearciderman said:

 

Thank you for proving my point, no mention of depriving a Thai of work.

Very true.

In this instance it seems this is the relevant profession:

3. Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works