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Macron asks Netanyahu to make gestures to break peace impasse

By John Irish

 

French President Emmanuel Macron welcomes Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for a meeting focusing on bilateral ties, Iran, the Middle East peace process, and other regional crises, at the Elysee Palace in Paris, France December 10, 2017. REUTERS/Philippe Wojazer

 

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Emmanuel Macron told Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday that he needed to make gestures to the Palestinians to enable to break the impasse between the two sides.

 

Netanyayu was in Paris ahead of a meeting with EU foreign ministers on Monday when they will try present a unified front after U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

 

While condemning all acts of terrorism against Israel, Macron said that he told Netanyahu that he was against Trump's decision, which was a "dangerous threat to peace."

 

"I asked Prime Minister Netanyuhu to make some courageous gestures towards the Palestinians to get out of the current impasse," he said, suggesting that a freeze of settlement construction could be s first step.

 

He reaffirmed that France believed that a two-state solution was the only viable option to end the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

 

European countries, like most nations, have criticised the Trump administration's decision last week which reversed decades of U.S. policy. Israel considers all of Jerusalem to be its capital, while the Palestinians want the eastern part of the city as capital of a future independent state.

 

Most countries have maintained the position that decisions about Jerusalem's status should be left to future negotiations. The Trump administration argues that any future peace deal is likely to place Israel's capital in Jerusalem, and old policies need to be abandoned to revive the moribund peace process.

 

Netanyahu responded to Macron by saying that once the Palestinians recognised the "reality" that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel, it would enable peace efforts sooner.

 

"The most important thing about peace is first of all to recognise that the other side has a right to exist," he said. "One of the manifestations of this refusal is the mere refusal to sit down with Israel.

 

"Here is the gesture I offer .. to Mr Abbas to sit down and negotiate peace. That's a gesture for peace. Nothing could be simpler," he said, referring to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

 

Macron said that he did not expect any breakthrough in the short-term, but it was important to see what a proposed U.S. peace initiative expected early next year would look like before writing Washington off as a mediator in the conflict.

 

"I don't think we need more initiatives," Macron said, ruling out a new French mediation effort after holding a peace conference in Paris last January.

 

When asked about discontent across the region over Trump's decision, including harsh criticism from Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, Netanyahu said he would not be given morality lectures by the Turkish leader.

 

He said that many Arab nations were increasingly aligned with Israel to tackle Iran's regional threat.

 

"Many Arab countries recognise that Israel is not their enemy but their indispensable ally," he said.

 

"Countries in the region who do not have formal relations with us yet. Those can grow, but it doesn't mean there will be a formal peace without some progress with the Palestinians."

Netanyahu said he sought to use closer ties with Arab countries to isolate extremists and counter Iran.

 

"What Iran is trying to do is to entrench itself militarily with land, air and naval forces in Syria with the express purpose of fighting and destroying Israel. We will not tolerate that and we back up our words with actions," he said.

 

(Reporting by John Irish; Editing by Toby Chopra)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-11

[geriatrickid]

Why doesn't Macron ask the Arab side to make a "bold" move? The Israelis have repeatedly made the bold moves.

When Israel pulled out of Gaza, and turned over state of the art agricultural facilities, what happened? The arabs  used Gaza to launch rockert and terror attacks. The agricultural facilities which could have continued to  employ and feed the locals were instead trashed and looted.

When Israel pulled out of the Sinai, what happened?  Arab terror groups, and  human smugglers moved in.

The Arabs have more wealth, more  people, more land, and are the largest supplier of energy  to the EU supply and yet Macron wants the little state of Israel to make a bold gesture.  Right.

 

[boomerangutang]

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Why doesn't Macron ask the Arab side to make a "bold" move? The Israelis have repeatedly made the bold moves. When Israel pulled out of Gaza, and turned over state of the art agricultural facilities, what happened? The arabs  used Gaza to launch rockert and terror attacks. The agricultural facilities which could have continued to  employ and feed the locals were instead trashed and looted. When Israel pulled out of the Sinai, what happened?  Arab terror groups, and  human smugglers moved in. The Arabs have more wealth, more  people, more land, and are the largest supplier of energy  to the EU supply and yet Macron wants the little state of Israel to make a bold gesture.  Right.

I somewhat agree. Palestinian militants have done a lot of action in past decades, which debilitated their own cause - actions/decisions which harmed their neighbors and caused destruction of buildings and infrastructure.   For every Israeli soldier they captured or killed, dozens of their Palestinian brethren have been imprisoned or killed/maimed.

 

In the old days, the stronger military force won the war, and the situation was altered accordingly.   In modern times, no one wins wars, and indecision/bad decisions reign, .....and misery drags on for decades.  It's not only happening with Israel and its neighboring countries, but also in Iraq, N.Korea, Central/east Africa, and Afghanistan. 

 

It's akin to a surgeon who, when confronted with a patient with a cancer-ridden body, takes out bits of cancer, but doesn't excise the entire tumor.   War is bad, but sometimes it's needed to resolve an issue.  It it weren't for wars in former times, parts of every country in Europe would be contested, ad nauseum.  France and Britain would be hassling over Normandy.  Germany and France would still be hassling over Alsace, there would be ongoing battles between Finland and Russia, and so on, ad infinitum.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

                 Humans are an imperfect species.  We are not, as religionists would have us believe, some sort of supra-beings made in the image of God, ....and so on.  As such, all the internecine military problems we read about, ww, are reflections of who we are and how we think.  If we were dolphins, all the headline news would take place in the seas or on seashores.

 

Sorry to say, but human character is prone to flaws, and that's a factor in why there are so many problems in the world, all of which are human-related.  How, you may ask, can there be improvements?  The nutshell answer:  Improve how people think.  Start with non-attachment, and that leads to less possessiveness, less likely to get offended, less recrimination, and so on.

 

We should be more like foxes, and less like hominids.  Foxes don't hold grudges.  They have a challenge, they deal with it as best they can, and then they go onward.  People, on the other hand, worry before a challenge, worry during a challenge, worry after a challenge, switch tactics, switch alliances, go crying to neighbors for succor, lie, blame, hold grudges for decades, cheat, .......all the sorts of things that animals don't waste their time doing.   

[boomerangutang]

-  double post -   

Edited December 11, 2017 by boomerangutang

[Jonnapat]

Wishful thinking to get any concessions from this person.

[champers]

I find it interesting that there seems to be an unofficial contest for who is the leader of the Western world. Trump continues to make enemies of former allies and Merkel is embroiled in problems at home. Step forward Emmanual Macron. Opportunism or statesmanship?

[DeaconJohn]

53 minutes ago, champers said:

I find it interesting that there seems to be an unofficial contest for who is the leader of the Western world. Trump continues to make enemies of former allies and Merkel is embroiled in problems at home. Step forward Emmanual Macron. Opportunism or statesmanship?

Maybe both...

He sees a void and he wants to step into it.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Why doesn't Macron ask the Arab side to make a "bold" move?

I'm sure this won't satisfy you and probably to Israel not a bold move. 

But I'd call it bold.

One of Israel's problems with two-state negotiations was that there was no unified Palestinian government.

Since 2007-2016 the Palestinian leadership has been divided between two rival governments, with Hamas controlling Gaza and Abbas in charge of autonomous enclaves in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. In essence there was a parallel government structure and not a unified government structure.

In September 2017 Hamas agreed to dissolve its authority over Gaza to create a unified government.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/hamas-agrees-steps-palestinian-unity-170917050746920.html

“We have made this Palestinian dream a reality whereby the rift has come to an end and we are reunited,” - PLO official Azzam al-Ahmad, a senior figure in Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-and-fatah-agree-to-form-unity-government-in-historic-deal/

 

[dexterm]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

I somewhat agree. Palestinian militants have done a lot of action in past decades, which debilitated their own cause - actions/decisions which harmed their neighbors and caused destruction of buildings and infrastructure.   For every Israeli soldier they captured or killed, dozens of their Palestinian brethren have been imprisoned or killed/maimed.

 

In the old days, the stronger military force won the war, and the situation was altered accordingly.   In modern times, no one wins wars, and indecision/bad decisions reign, .....and misery drags on for decades.  It's not only happening with Israel and its neighboring countries, but also in Iraq, N.Korea, Central/east Africa, and Afghanistan. 

 

It's akin to a surgeon who, when confronted with a patient with a cancer-ridden body, takes out bits of cancer, but doesn't excise the entire tumor.   War is bad, but sometimes it's needed to resolve an issue.  It it weren't for wars in former times, parts of every country in Europe would be contested, ad nauseum.  France and Britain would be hassling over Normandy.  Germany and France would still be hassling over Alsace, there would be ongoing battles between Finland and Russia, and so on, ad infinitum.

 

 

The tumor is Zionism ..the racist supremacist ideology that encouraged the mainly European colonization of Palestine, while ignoring the fact that a majority of indigenous residents were already living there.

And the Palestinians are still the majority despite all that has been done to them.

No minority can suppress the freedom of the majority forever.  

[dexterm]

OP...

"Netanyahu responded to Macron by saying that once the Palestinians recognised the "reality" that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel, it would enable peace efforts sooner.
The most important thing about peace is first of all to recognise that the other side has a right to exist," he said.

 

Read between the lines.

 

... far from 'reality', looks like Netanyahu is now adding to his set of quite unrealistic preconditions which he knows full well will not foster but will derail peace efforts. He knows he can grandstand offering peace talks because he has introduced preconditions that are totally unacceptable.

 

Netanyahu is now disingenuously moving the goalposts yet again.

1. Palestinians must now also recognize Jerusalem as Israel's eternal and undivided capital. 
2. Palestinians must now recognize Israel as a Jewish state, not just a state.

 

1) Palestinians will readily agree to West Jerusalem being Israel's capital, if Israel accepts East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital where their sacred sites are located

2) Palestinians have already recognized Israel's right to exist. 
"How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel?
Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701

[Morch]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Why doesn't Macron ask the Arab side to make a "bold" move? The Israelis have repeatedly made the bold moves.

When Israel pulled out of Gaza, and turned over state of the art agricultural facilities, what happened? The arabs  used Gaza to launch rockert and terror attacks. The agricultural facilities which could have continued to  employ and feed the locals were instead trashed and looted.

When Israel pulled out of the Sinai, what happened?  Arab terror groups, and  human smugglers moved in.

The Arabs have more wealth, more  people, more land, and are the largest supplier of energy  to the EU supply and yet Macron wants the little state of Israel to make a bold gesture.  Right.

 

 

Don't know what you consider "bold", exactly.

 

Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip was a unilateral move, not directly associated with any form of negotiation or concession. That the Palestinians managed to bungle it up further is what it is. 

 

When Israel pulled out of the Sinai Peninsula, it was under a peace agreement with Egypt. Perhaps "bold" would be more aptly applied in relation to Sadat's historical visit to Israel. And of course, them terror groups didn't show up overnight, nor are they solely related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Smuggling was well in place even while Israel was controlling the Sinai.

 

And "bold" would have been signing the Oslo Accords.

 

Goodwill and boldness aren't terms associated with current Israeli and Palestinian leaderships.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

I'm sure this won't satisfy you and probably to Israel not a bold move. 

But I'd call it bold.

One of Israel's problems with two-state negotiations was that there was no unified Palestinian government.

Since 2007-2016 the Palestinian leadership has been divided between two rival governments, with Hamas controlling Gaza and Abbas in charge of autonomous enclaves in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. In essence there was a parallel government structure and not a unified government structure.

In September 2017 Hamas agreed to dissolve its authority over Gaza to create a unified government.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/hamas-agrees-steps-palestinian-unity-170917050746920.html

“We have made this Palestinian dream a reality whereby the rift has come to an end and we are reunited,” - PLO official Azzam al-Ahmad, a senior figure in Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-and-fatah-agree-to-form-unity-government-in-historic-deal/

 

 

Makes for great headlines, unless one is actually familiar with details. In effect, the current Palestinian reconciliation effort already stalled, even before hitting the heavy weight core issues. That Palestinian leaders air empty statements doesn't change things one bit. Trying to market the reconciliation process as being on-track, bold or having a whole lot of chances going anywhere is misleading.

 

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

The tumor is Zionism ..the racist supremacist ideology that encouraged the mainly European colonization of Palestine, while ignoring the fact that a majority of indigenous residents were already living there.

And the Palestinians are still the majority despite all that has been done to them.

No minority can suppress the freedom of the majority forever.  

 

Macron would denounce your vehement vile views, as well as your unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric:

 

Emmanuel Macron says anti-Zionism is a new type of anti-Semitism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/emmanuel-macron-anti-zionism-anti-semitism-israel-jewish-state-france-president-racism-attacks-a7844711.html

 

I'd say that these sort of posts and the posting style you engage in reflects one of the major obstacles to dealing with this conflict. You have no real interest in anything resembling a compromise or peaceful resolution, but instead make your own small contribution for stoking flames and promoting hatred. A great "humanist" my rear end.

[Morch]

 

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

OP...

"Netanyahu responded to Macron by saying that once the Palestinians recognised the "reality" that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel, it would enable peace efforts sooner.
The most important thing about peace is first of all to recognise that the other side has a right to exist," he said.

 

Read between the lines.

 

... far from 'reality', looks like Netanyahu is now adding to his set of quite unrealistic preconditions which he knows full well will not foster but will derail peace efforts. He knows he can grandstand offering peace talks because he has introduced preconditions that are totally unacceptable.

 

Netanyahu is now disingenuously moving the goalposts yet again.

1. Palestinians must now also recognize Jerusalem as Israel's eternal and undivided capital. 
2. Palestinians must now recognize Israel as a Jewish state, not just a state.

 

1) Palestinians will readily agree to West Jerusalem being Israel's capital, if Israel accepts East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital where their sacred sites are located

2) Palestinians have already recognized Israel's right to exist. 
"How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel?
Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701

 

Same faux talking points you made earlier, same gospel article you quoted earlier. One would have thought that you'd come up with better arguments, faux or otherwise.

[Morch]

 

It was previously opined that Marcon will seek to fill the void created by Trump's chaos of a foreign policy. But from the OP, it would seem that this either applies only in some instances or that the involvement envisaged is not as hands-on as the USA's was. Accordingly, Macron did not do much other than paying leap service objecting Trump's move. No jumping in to the fray, no to organizing another conference, or launching new initiatives. Guess he's not as daft as to get stuck in this quagmire.

 

The two main points were:

1. The two-state solution is still the only viable game in town.

2. A wait-and-see approach with regard to the Trump administration peace plan.

 

The OP focuses on the Palestinian issue, but other regional topics were raised as well - mostly dealing with Iran and Lebanon. Macron may be critical when it comes to the Palestinian issue, much less so on other fronts.

 

 

[dexterm]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

Same faux talking points you made earlier, same gospel article you quoted earlier. One would have thought that you'd come up with better arguments, faux or otherwise.

And same derogatory preamble from you as to all my posts. You'd be forgiven for thinking you are stalking me.

It would be nice if you actually adressed the issues in the OP without all the derision and deflection.

Edited December 11, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, dexterm said:

And same derogatory preamble from you as to all my posts. You'd be forgiven for thinking you are stalking me.

It would be nice if you actually adressed the issues in the OP without all the derision and deflection.

 

Playing the victim card? Seriously?

You make essentially the same posts over and over again, across multiple related topics. Guess we can't all be your style of one-sided wannabee political activist. As said, points were addressed previously - and you are well aware of it. That you feign ignorance is just another dishonest spin.

[dexterm]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Playing the victim card? Seriously?

You make essentially the same posts over and over again, across multiple related topics. Guess we can't all be your style of one-sided wannabee political activist. As said, points were addressed previously - and you are well aware of it. That you feign ignorance is just another dishonest spin.

>>one-sided wannabee political activist

..pot, kettle, black spring to mind.

 

Please just cut the constant nasty flaming, and simply address the topic. Allow forum members to read a wide range of opinions to judge issues for themselves. I thought that was the general idea of a public forum.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

>>one-sided wannabee political activist

..pot, kettle, black spring to mind.

 

Please just cut the constant nasty flaming, and simply address the topic. Allow forum members to read a wide range of opinions to judge issues for themselves. I thought that was the general idea of a public forum.

 

I'm not responsible for the way your mind works. Equating your one sided, vehement posts and views with mine is absurd. or in your case, a rather desperate lie.

 

I have addressed your faux talking points, as you well know. There's no need to re-hash every single instance of these. That you treat these topics as a platform for promoting a one-sided agenda and a set of extreme views does not mean that all posters, even those commenting on your posts, have to emulate you.

 

[Scott]

I think we can dispense with the personal commentary.  

[boomerangutang]

On 12/11/2017 at 12:39 PM, champers said:

I find it interesting that there seems to be an unofficial contest for who is the leader of the Western world. Trump continues to make enemies of former allies and Merkel is embroiled in problems at home. Step forward Emmanual Macron. Opportunism or statesmanship?

Mostly statesmanship.  Macron is filling the void Trump has created for the US.   Similar, with Macron's offer to try to lure US scientists & engineers (who focus on environmental issues) ...over to France.