Advice about wedding

[Doctorbu]

She has the power once you and the children are in Thailand...what if she tried to take the children out of spite or to blackmail you into giving her money?

[wolf81]

Might be better to get some Thai Elite visa option, at least until you are 50 years old (after can get retirement visa). Either way I think marriage is a bad idea. Thai Elite may look expensive, but you will have probably an easier time with immigration, can leave the country without reporting to immigration (e.g.: family member dies or has emergency). And in the end it's only about 6-9 EUR a day.

 

Oh and if you would choose to marry, but your wife would divorce you, you would lose your marriage visa anyway. So by marrying her, you will put a lot of power over you in her hands.

 

Perhaps the mother of your children will be happy if you take care of the children so she can party and have less cost of living. I don't know if you really need to marry to be able to take care of your children.

Edited December 13, 2017 by wolf81

[Media1]

5 hours ago, wirat69 said:

Good luck..... In my birth country there are Thai Communities in the major cities, each of which provide Thai language and culture classes for Thai children..... check with the Royal Thai Embassy in your country as this might be a safer option....!!!???

Yes she is freelancing no need a bar internet mugs 

[MaeJoMTB]

45 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

Oh and if you would choose to marry, but your wife would divorce you, you would lose your marriage visa anyway. So by marrying her, you will put a lot of power over you in her hands.

Not true,

Marriage 'o' VISA from Suvannakhet in Laos, valid 1 year (good for 90 day x 5).

She has absolutely no power to revoke the VISA after it is granted.

Sorry you don't know the difference between a VISA and an Extension.

 

To the OP,

Thailand has nothing worthwhile for your children, stop thinking of yourself and stay where you are, where your kids have a chance of a decent life.

Edited December 13, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[JacChang]

STOP ALL CONTACT WITH HER.

 

I have no idea why marriage is even brought up. She obviously doesn't care about you or your children. If you send her money monthly, she might pretend to care about you. If that's what ticks your boat. From her viewpoint, you are just something she wants to get rid off, an annoying fly. Why would someone want to bother someone with marriage when it's not even an interest? Marriage is only the start of your problems. Do not do it.

 

Live your own life, be happy, and find happiness with what you already have and create even more. Please stop caring about someone who doesn't even treat you like a 0.1mm dirt. Leave her alone. In these 10 years, she'll continue pursuing her many husbands and boyfriends and whatnots. You make the decision today to leave this type of parasite alone, or else it will affect your life forever, as well as your two children.

 

Do the right thing. Start living your own life with your children, and build from that foundation.

[khunPer]

To my knowledge, you'll need a DNA-test and meeting in the Family-court to legalize fatherhood in Thailand, when not married to the mother and a child is under (about) 7-years of age. The name on a birth certificate don't legalize the father when not married.

(My experience and knowledge are based on being father to a half Thai child, and not married to the mother, however we live together and don't have any problems. I legalized the fatherhood at Amphor when my daughter was more than 7 years old.)

 

I don't know if you automatically become legalized as father if you marry the mother later, you should double check that with a lawyer. However, that mean you got shared parenthood with the mother, so you really should clear with a lawyer – or two, for second opinion – how to handle that situation with a prenup or other agreement about your parenthood, as a Thai court made judge in favor of a Thai mother, especially when the father is a foreigner.

 

I agree with other posters mentioning the potential difficulties of living in Thailand as a foreigner and taking care of two children – without a high level salary or some (major) savings to boost the budget (you said you're not rich) – compared to live in your (unknown) home country. I also have some experience from living in Thailand with a child – however in a well working relationship – and depending of where you settle, schooling may be a challenge; a public school in your home country might be better than a public Thai school. Considering private schools, for example beginning with Kindergarten and the first 6 grades (years) in an EP (English Program) school of a fair educational standard, can be relative costly (relative, depending of income level and savings). International schools from 7th grade, i.e. internationally Year-8, is normally advised, and again relative expensive (count from ca. 400k baht and way up in annual fee per child).

 

You didn't mention your children's nationality – or dual nationality? – which may also matter in your situation; i.e. settle in Thailand in one-or-other way.

 

I wish you all the best for finding a solution...

[free123]

7 hours ago, faraday said:

Try writing to Scott Mallon....

yeahhh Scott will definitely not hold back with his opinion ...

[free123]

my advise stay in your home country ..if u from europe most the schooling is free and an average European  educated is way ahead of a high Thai educated...( even to receive very good education in los = average by Europe standards costs a fortune anyway...) so for the future life of your children europe in many many ways is better 

if u expose your kids to your cheating low life ex and to her way of life u definitely dont do them any good....

westerners always dream the Thai dream but its a dream real  everyday life ( work/ school/ income/ safety// traffic/ pollution/ food quality/ safety/ corruption levels/ general knowledge about the  world / technology / business and work practices/ racism / democracy / old age cate system etc etc )  in most other country's is 100 times better safer cleaner than in los.....but if u are from the usa Thailand can be better in many ways...

[KOZMO]

You want to come here to find a new Girlfriend !!!  leave the Kids with your family and sneak in alone.

 

No more contact with her or you could be in trouble up to and including your LIFE !!!     

[Ishkur]

Thank you for your answer, and I agree with most of you, I was just asking myself how to do, but I'm aware, yes, that my home country (France), is a more easy living than thailand.

 

For the children, they both have dual nationality (fr/thai), and yes I'm sure that i am the father (living with her at time she were pregnant, and she is so jealous / possessive that i staid with her almost 99% of time).

Second children, she begin to be pregnant in France and gave born in france (but registered at thai embassy as a thai children).

 

I lived already in thailand for 3 years (more than 1 with the first children), and back living with her some month with both children. I know the cost and can afford it.

 

I don't need either to marry her for a visa.

 

If everything ok for me and my children, I will open a company there (well, my parents would be the actual owner, but not working) and this girl would not be part of the company. This thread is not about this company could working or not, or if i am in a dream, thats something we do and is working in france, but because of tax / salary / costs... would be better in thailand and would assure us a more than decent revenue. Again, thats not about money and everything is not in my name, a wedding or no would not change anything.

 

So yes France is a great country, but for a little company things are pretty horrible about cost and tax, and Thailand would be a better place for doing it. Again, this thread is not about that, but i explain cause some people are asking.

 

I am only asking for some advice about parental power.

 

About the childrens, she did a paper that she give me parental power and children can live with me, where i want more than a year ago, BUT only for one children (not both, she keep one that moment for do some manipulation later) and that was just an agreement between her and me, so no legal value in thailand.

For go outside of thailand, i got some paper she wrotte and immigration officer call her by phone to confirm. There is no children abduction in any way (gave her some money for she did the paper and let me go outside of thailand with children...).

 

The question is only what's my possibility to obtain parental power over children in thailand?

We (me, my french family) want to go back to live in thailand, but we can't do that without being sure that this girl is not going to make our life complicated.

 

And yes, I know that she is not a bargirl (she was student when i meet her), but i know that her behaviour is about money and try control me.

 

So I back to the same point, if i marry her, what she could do ?

There is nothing at my name, almost no money, no things.

Could a prenuptial agreement working about the children?

 

And the other way is by the court decision, do anyone know if i can go to the court in thailand without children being present? If children stay in france while the court give a decision, the mother can't do anything.

I'm maybe naive, but I believe a thai court will agree that I can be the legal father, and custody would at least be joint (I take care of them alone + mother don't give even 1 bath for them).

BUT I don't want to take children back to thailand BEFORE having right over them, so if children need to go to the court, thats not possible cause the mother can use it to take them back before end of trial.

 

PS: I don't send her any money since the children stay with me (just send her some last year when she keep the little one with her).

Edited December 13, 2017 by Ishkur

[GOLDBUGGY]

It appears to me that you want to go back to Thailand mostly because this is where you would like to live now, but fear you will lose all rights over your children if you do this. So to keep those rights you feel that a marriage with there mother will give that to you.

 

What makes you feel that if you were married and where considered to be the legal father, that you would have any rights over your children anyway? I have been divorced two times now and in both cases I felt I had zero rights over the children and my x-wives had them all. All I got was Child Support Payments. 

 

If you can't decide between yourselves, a Divorce Judge will decide where they think the Children will be most happy with, or will get the greatest benefit from. Remember you will be in Thailand then and the mother and kids are both Thai. You don't have to be a terrible father to lose. You wife just doesn't have to be a terrible mother to win. 

 

So it is that simple. She gets to keep the kids if she wants them, and you get to make the payments. Marriage or no marriage. You best chance to is get your kids your citizenship and keep them with you. No one is going and come and get them that way. If this is what you really want.    

[Ishkur]

My children are French (but thai too), but that doesn't matter in thailand. If I could just burn the thai certificate for them to be french exclusively and be seen as french children, there wouldn't be any problem...

 

And what I asked was if a prenuptial agreement (a paper registered with the wedding) which INSIDE the mother agree from the start that if we not together (married couple not always live together, for working reason for exemple, or before to divorce) that she agree children would stay with me and in the case of divorce too, she agree that i will have custody over them.

The main purpose of wedding is this agreement in a prenuptial contract with the wedding.

 

And for the judge, I believe that the mother usualy (95% of time) is seen better than the father, but, realy, in my case, I can show that I take care of them ALONE for more than a year now and the mother NEVER send a bath for them and that the children only speack FRENCH.  Thats not make her a bad mother maybe, but that's a proof that children interest isn't only about the mother for my situation.

 

Another thing is that in case of the wedding is not a good thing (and I agree i would prefer NOT marry her), if i want to go to thailand, then, I can try to go to the court while children stay in France. Just I'm not sure if this is possible.

 

Just trying to find a solution, but if I don't have one, of course, I will never take my children back to thailand for take myself inside bigger problem. Till them stay in France, there isn't any problem possible.

[KIWIBATCH]

Come to Thailand and marry her.......are you <deleted> stupid...!!!

Use your brains if you have any. DONT CONTACT HER...DONT SEND HER ANY MONEY EVER AGAIN.

STAY WHERE YOU ARE....if you come to Thailand with the kids YOU WILL LOSE THEM......if she has the slightest inclination to want those kids under her care. There wont be any fancy court proceedings...those kids will simply disappear someday from your front garden while you sit inside watching TV....she will use any means to get her hands on them (read between the lines..!!)

 

You are happy where you are and obviously taking good care and providing for your kids.....so just stay put.

Ok you love Thailand, well do you have family nearby who could care for the kids for a couple of weeks...whilst you come for a holiday to Thailand alone?...Why drag the kids to Thailand?...For what purpose?....bargaining with your ex..?   who you state "goes with other farangs"

Wake up man  for Gods sake...and for the sake of your kids.

[Danishm2]

do you have birth certificate if Thai do you have a legal translate version
what country are you from ?

Sendt fra min SM-G955W med Tapatalk

[Danishm2]

sorry see now here on last page

Sendt fra min SM-G955W med Tapatalk

[swissie]

OP want's to do business in Thailand to support himself and the kids in Thailand (as I read it, his entire family would be relocating from France to Thailand to engage in business).
- Does he know anything how business is conducted in Thailand? Does he speak the language? Does he know things about Work-Permits, having to employ 4 Thai's etc,etc,etc?
- Next of doing battle with the lady over custody, he will simoultainiously build a business here as a foreighner??????????
It also seems, that OP has no idea what a good private school costs in Thailand (times 2). Of course, at the age of 30, nobody would expect "wisdom", just some sort of common sense.
A character trait of the OP seems to be "act first, think later". In the future, he may have to reverse it: Think first, act later.
But OP is in good company. Plenty of old Farangs brimming with "wisdom", acting according to "act first, think later".
Cheers.

 

[Ishkur]

Well, I post this thread hoping to have answer to my question about parental power / custody (=Go to court for obtain it OR to wedding with the mother with a prenuptial agreement) and I had some answer about it.

 

Most answer were not about that, that's ok, I knew it will happen like this.

 

But I don't ask anyone anything else about that.

 

I explain that I want to open a business in thailand and I know about it and that this thread was NOT about this. I know everything I need to know about the usual thai majority shares / VISA / work permit / TAX / thai employee needed / minimum capital / etc... and other things like that. Everything about this is clear for me, and not a problem (Business would not be at my name / name of the mother of childrens), legaly, I would be just a foreign employee (that's a family thing).

 

And WE WILL NOT building this company BEFORE everything to be clear for children.

 

First step = obtain legal issue about children,

Then second step = building the company if step 1 is OK.

 

And for the school, as a FRENCH people with FRENCH children (even they are also thai), they are entitled to go to the "Lycée francais de bangkok" which cost is affordable for me, which give EXACTLY the same education as a french school (with REALY GOOD results for french exam) and for which one the french embassy can help if my earning are not enough high as i expected. Anyway I said I'm not rich, I don't say I have no money at all, that's just not the question or the problem.

 

I don't ask advice about cost of living in thailand, I don't ask advice about how to build / run a thai company, I don't ask advice about education of the childrens...

 

I'm just asking if someone know about parental power / custody in the case of :

-Going to court for obtain it without children going to thailand till the decision (or people who did it and how them obtain it).

-Marry the mother with a prenuptial agreement that clearly define that the children HAVE TO stay where I live in case of the couple not being living at the same place (for whatever reason) and in case of divorce.

 

I begin contact a lawyer about this, but i don't have a clear answer yet or price about it. Just asking there if some people have information about this to share cause I think I'm not the only one with a situation like that.

 

And of course, if I "act first, think later", I would never have the children with me actualy, the mother would have them and would ask money from me, that's not the case.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Ishkur

[jacko45k]

So you figure neck deep isn't enough and want to keep digging.

Until the relationship with the girl is clear and settled and there is some trust I would not risk things.

[UPDEHSOI]

On 12/13/2017 at 9:36 AM, faraday said:

Interesting that post #6 has been a member since 2015, but only now writes for the first time.

 

Or am I being a little cynical...?

Well, ya gotta admit. There are many many articles and "stuff" posted here that just ain't worth a reply...ya think?

[Ron19]

A flame post has been removed.

[MaeJoMTB]

14 hours ago, Ishkur said:

I'm just asking if someone know about parental power / custody in the case of :

-Going to court for obtain it without children going to thailand till the decision (or people who did it and how them obtain it).

 

Children will be required to appear in Thai court, speak with court officials, etc.

Same as any other country.

If you aren't married to mother, they will be handed over immediately they appear.

Father has parental rights without marriage or prior court order.

Edited December 14, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[GOLDBUGGY]

16 hours ago, Ishkur said:

Well, I post this thread hoping to have answer to my question about parental power / custody (=Go to court for obtain it OR to wedding with the mother with a prenuptial agreement) and I had some answer about it.

 

Most answer were not about that, that's ok, I knew it will happen like this.

 

But I don't ask anyone anything else about that.

 

I explain that I want to open a business in thailand and I know about it and that this thread was NOT about this. I know everything I need to know about the usual thai majority shares / VISA / work permit / TAX / thai employee needed / minimum capital / etc... and other things like that. Everything about this is clear for me, and not a problem (Business would not be at my name / name of the mother of childrens), legaly, I would be just a foreign employee (that's a family thing).

 

And WE WILL NOT building this company BEFORE everything to be clear for children.

 

First step = obtain legal issue about children,

Then second step = building the company if step 1 is OK.

 

And for the school, as a FRENCH people with FRENCH children (even they are also thai), they are entitled to go to the "Lycée francais de bangkok" which cost is affordable for me, which give EXACTLY the same education as a french school (with REALY GOOD results for french exam) and for which one the french embassy can help if my earning are not enough high as i expected. Anyway I said I'm not rich, I don't say I have no money at all, that's just not the question or the problem.

 

I don't ask advice about cost of living in thailand, I don't ask advice about how to build / run a thai company, I don't ask advice about education of the childrens...

 

I'm just asking if someone know about parental power / custody in the case of :

-Going to court for obtain it without children going to thailand till the decision (or people who did it and how them obtain it).

-Marry the mother with a prenuptial agreement that clearly define that the children HAVE TO stay where I live in case of the couple not being living at the same place (for whatever reason) and in case of divorce.

 

I begin contact a lawyer about this, but i don't have a clear answer yet or price about it. Just asking there if some people have information about this to share cause I think I'm not the only one with a situation like that.

 

And of course, if I "act first, think later", I would never have the children with me actualy, the mother would have them and would ask money from me, that's not the case.

 

 

So what you really want to know is that if you got married first, becoming the children's legal father, that if there is some agreement you can make later, with your Children's Mother, that would allow you to keep your kids if things fell apart?  Why didn't you just say so? 

 

But the answer is No! There is no deal you can make before hand that will give you the assurances you need and want now, concerning your legal rights over your children. There are several reasons for this so here are just a few. 

 

Again Legal Agreement or Contract a Man makes with his Wife during the marriage in Thailand, become null and void on Divorce Day.  In other words you can't make any kind of legal or binding Contract or Deal with your wife concerning the children or any other thing. 

 

So on Divorce Day if your Wiife agrees to give you the children to look after, and you agree to take them, then a Judge won't have a problem in granting you permission to have them. But if your Wife signs a paper now giving you custody, and later changes her mind on Divorce Day, then you will have issues. 

 

In a "No Fault Divorce" a Judge isn't looking to see whos fault it was that caused the breakup of the Marriage. They already no that. It was both your faults. All they look at now is the care and protection of the true victims of a Divorce. The Children!

 

In Thailand under Thai Law, your children are not Half French! Thailand does not recognize Due Citizenship. In Thailand your children ar Full Thai. So if you want to take your chances in a Thai Court, fighting a Thai Wife, over Thai Children, then Good Luck to you. I personally wouldn't chance that if I wanted my kids with me. For no Love or Money!  

[mikiea]

On 12/13/2017 at 8:49 AM, dotpoom said:

That will be of enormous help to him....that is what he was asking for, I think?

maybe not . but is what he needs to hear ....

[Gracas]

Like most women, no matter what arrangements or agreements you try to formalize now it is very likely that she will change her mind later on, for any number of reasons.

At the moment you are in France and have control, all that will change if you return to Thailand.

Obtain GOOD legal advice, and think long and hard about your plan.

Good luck.

[MaeJoMTB]

13 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Children will be required to appear in Thai court, speak with court officials, etc.

Same as any other country.

If you aren't married to mother, they will be handed over immediately they appear.

Father has NO parental rights without marriage or prior court order.

for some reason 'NO" didn't appear first time round.

[greenchair]

There is the case a couple of years ago, the British man had 2 children 10 and 11 both raised in England and could not speak thai. 

He Brought them to thailand for a holiday. He allowed the children to go out for the day with the mother. She took them and never gave them back. She was protected by thai law and the police could not help him. 

[isaanbanhou]

9 minutes ago, greenchair said:

There is the case a couple of years ago, the British man had 2 children 10 and 11 both raised in England and could not speak thai. 

He Brought them to thailand for a holiday. He allowed the children to go out for the day with the mother. She took them and never gave them back. She was protected by thai law and the police could not help him. 

 The children would be able to get good jobs as they spoke perfect english.   The mother will have a decent residual income  and the poor Englishman will no longer have to work day and night to support them.  

[greenchair]

Ok looking at the civil code in the book of family. My edited version. 

1547 the child born of unmarried parents can be legitimated by registration done on application by the father or as the child by the judgement of the court. 

1548 legitimating can be done if the mother gives consent. If she doesn't consent the mother will be notified of your intention and must answer in 60 days. That can also be extended to another 180 days. After that it will be sent to the court for the judge to decide. 

So if she will go to the district office with you, you can have your name placed on the birth registration as the father. 

1549 if mother does not give consent the after the father register by himself, even if he is recognised father, he does not have full parental power until the order of the court. 

If mother consents and you are registered as father you can do this. 

1552 apply to the court to issue an order depriving the mother of parental power and ask for sole guardianship. If the court thinks it's in the best interests of the child to prevent the mother any guardianship right, it will give full power and guardianship to the father. 

1555 the that shall presume that you are the father is as follows. 

(3)having a document showing the child is yours. 

(5)if you can show you were living with her at the time of pregnancy. 

(7) if you have continuous reputation as being the legitimate father. 

Summary. Before bringing children to Thailand. Ask her to go to district office to have you registered as the father. After that apply to the court for full guardianship and parental power .

Obviously you should not tell her you are going to do that. 

If she refuses to go to register you as the father, you can do it by yourself. You don't need a lawyer, but you sure will need a very good interpreter to help you through. 

 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

Ok looking at the civil code in the book of family. My edited version. 

1547 the child born of unmarried parents can be legitimated by registration done on application by the father or as the child by the judgement of the court. 

1548 legitimating can be done if the mother gives consent. If she doesn't consent the mother will be notified of your intention and must answer in 60 days. That can also be extended to another 180 days. After that it will be sent to the court for the judge to decide. 

So if she will go to the district office with you, you can have your name placed on the birth registration as the father. 

1549 if mother does not give consent the after the father register by himself, even if he is recognised father, he does not have full parental power until the order of the court. 

If mother consents and you are registered as father you can do this. 

1552 apply to the court to issue an order depriving the mother of parental power and ask for sole guardianship. If the court thinks it's in the best interests of the child to prevent the mother any guardianship right, it will give full power and guardianship to the father. 

1555 the that shall presume that you are the father is as follows. 

(3)having a document showing the child is yours. 

(5)if you can show you were living with her at the time of pregnancy. 

(7) if you have continuous reputation as being the legitimate father. 

Summary. Before bringing children to Thailand. Ask her to go to district office to have you registered as the father. After that apply to the court for full guardianship and parental power .

Obviously you should not tell her you are going to do that. 

If she refuses to go to register you as the father, you can do it by yourself. You don't need a lawyer, but you sure will need a very good interpreter to help you through. 

 

By the way, it might even be in your best interests to register as the father without her through the courts. 

If you can show she has had no contact for a few years, that would be in your favour. 

Then you could get a visa based on having dependant children. 

Absolutely no need to get married. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by greenchair

[MaeJoMTB]

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

By the way, it might even be in your best interests to register as the father without her through the courts. 

He can't. Her permission is required, at the court, with the children present.

Edited December 16, 2017 by MaeJoMTB