Changing from an extension based on marriage to one based on retirement

[connda]

I've come to the point where I don't see any advantage to maintaining a visa extension based on marriage.  The only advantage to having it was the ability to work if I wanted. 
However, when I moved to our village I offered to teach English for free as a volunteer to various organizations from schools in our Amphur to local government offices.  My only stipulation was that whoever wanted my services would provide a representative from their organization to work with the Ministry of Labor to obtain a work permit for me prior to my first day to teaching.  That's been an open offer for over four years and not one organization has shown interest.  I've had the normal banter from those organizations to the effect, "No need work permit, you just come teach", to which I have repeatedly said that they don't understand the sanctions imposed on foreigners working illegally, and my answer is emphatically, "No!  No work permit, no free teaching." 
I have multiply years of experience teaching both computer technology and English as a Second Language here in Thailand.  It is so amazingly Thai.  You offer to raise the level of education in a rural setting for free, and there is absolutely no interest.  All I can do is shake my head, but - it ain't my problem.  It's a cultural issue that I doubt will change anytime soon.  I just find it immensely sad.

So with that said, I want to change from an extension based on marriage to an extension based on retirement.  I have both 800K THB in the bank (I'm topping it off today for a extension the expires in early April 2018), and at the present exchange rate my income exceeds the 65K THB/month needed to qualify (I believe that is the amount, correct me if I'm wrong).  So, what is the process for changing from a marriage extension to a retirement extension?  I won't miss the annual picture taking, document shuffling in duplicate if not triplicate, map drawing, and attempting to anticipate what changes and roadblocks have been throw up my immigration to make the marriage extension more of a pain-in-the-butt to obtain then it needs to be each year it rolls around. 

[ubonjoe]

All you have to do is put retirement on the TM7 form  or instead of marriage and prove your income of 65k baht or 800k baht in the bank for 3 months on the date you apply.

Only one TM7 form will be needed plus the normal passport copies and TM6 departure card copies.

[overherebc]

Related I think.

Re proof of income for retirement.

If you have p 60 forms sent every year from UK stating your income from there and tax code and figures do you still require the letter from the embassy etc etc or will the p 60/p60's be acceptable.

[Tanoshi]

Your position is not uncommon when offering to work voluntarily.

If they are tasked with providing the documents to the Labour Dept and paying for the WP, then their mind-set is such that it's not free.

 

It may help with specifics of documents if you stated which Immigration office you use.

This is a list of documents for retirement extensions specific to my office. They are one of only about 3 offices that request medical certificates for RE's, so you can likely ignore that requirement.

Extension of Stay based on Retirement..odt

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Related I think.

Re proof of income for retirement.

If you have p 60 forms sent every year from UK stating your income from there and tax code and figures do you still require the letter from the embassy etc etc or will the p 60/p60's be acceptable.

Only a proof of Income letter from your Embassy is acceptable if using the income method.

 

[JackThompson]

35 minutes ago, connda said:

However, when I moved to our village I offered to teach English for free as a volunteer to various organizations from schools in our Amphur to local government offices.  My only stipulation was that whoever wanted my services would provide a representative from their organization to work with the Ministry of Labor to obtain a work permit for me prior to my first day to teaching.  That's been an open offer for over four years and not one organization has shown interest.

 

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your position is not uncommon when offering to work voluntarily.

If they are tasked with providing the documents to the Labour Dept and paying for the WP, then their mind-set is such that it's not free.

At one point I looked into volunteering, and discovered that, in many cases, you must pay for the privilege of "volunteering to work for free" in Thailand.   It is very unfortunate that a simpler / cheaper path is not available for charitable orgs and non-profit schools.

[harrry]

You still have to go through the full procedure each year.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

At one point I looked into volunteering, and discovered that, in many cases, you must pay for the privilege of "volunteering to work for free" in Thailand.   It is very unfortunate that a simpler / cheaper path is not available for charitable orgs and non-profit schools.

But then 'nobody' would make any money.

[glasswort]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

All you have to do is put retirement on the TM7 form  or instead of marriage and prove your income of 65k baht or 800k baht in the bank for 3 months on the date you apply.

Only one TM7 form will be needed plus the normal passport copies and TM6 departure card copies.

You will also need a letter from your bank and proof of address.The length of time the bank letter can be valid seems to vary between 1 and 7 days. I obtain mine one one day before I submit the application. Not sure what the letter actually says because it is in Thai but seems to be a standard format.

[Amplish]

You also have to bring your wife, as (depending on where you live) she may be asked to sign a form that she is aware and agrees with you changing to an extension based on retirement. For subsequent retirement extensions that is no longer required, just the first time.

[Ned]

I went from a retirement extension to a marriage one about 5 years ago. Before that for 8 years it was retirement.

Chiang Mai told me that if I ever went back to a retirement extension then they would never give me a marriage extension again ....... if I changed my mind in the future.

 

[Pilotman]

5 hours ago, overherebc said:

Related I think.

Re proof of income for retirement.

If you have p 60 forms sent every year from UK stating your income from there and tax code and figures do you still require the letter from the embassy etc etc or will the p 60/p60's be acceptable.

I used my P60s and my last tax return to prove income.  Got my letter one month ago.  I applied online, submitting the copies by scan/e mail , much easier  and quicker than  by post. 

[Dan5]

1 hour ago, glasswort said:

You will also need a letter from your bank and proof of address.The length of time the bank letter can be valid seems to vary between 1 and 7 days. I obtain mine one one day before I submit the application. Not sure what the letter actually says because it is in Thai but seems to be a standard format.

You only need a letter from the bank if you are using the 800K Baht in the bank to prove income.

[Lite Beer]

10 minutes ago, Ned said:

I went from a retirement extension to a marriage one about 5 years ago. Before that for 8 years it was retirement.

Chiang Mai told me that if I ever went back to a retirement extension then they would never give me a marriage extension again ....... if I changed my mind in the future.

 

Why would they say that?

Nonsense.

What if you no longer qualified financially for the retirement option?

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, Lite Beer said:

Why would they say that?

Nonsense.

What if you no longer qualified financially for the retirement option?

What if you wanted to go back to work and you can do that on an O extension but not on a retirement extension.

Sounds like 'what new rule can we make up today.'

[JackThompson]

42 minutes ago, Ned said:

I went from a retirement extension to a marriage one about 5 years ago. Before that for 8 years it was retirement.

Chiang Mai told me that if I ever went back to a retirement extension then they would never give me a marriage extension again ....... if I changed my mind in the future.

The marriage-extension requires more work to process.  They are not paid by work-output, not subject to market-competition, and have little oversight to ensure consistency and integrity of the process - so this is the inevitable result. 

 

If, at some point, you did go to retirement, then, later on, they denied you switching back to marriage again, you could go out to a nearby consulate for a Non-O based on marriage, and then apply for the marriage-based extension from there.

[TKDfella]

I believe you will find on other related threads that the IO will help you because based on retirement is less work for them. Probably the easiest method is 800K in the bank as this requires a letter from the bank (which may have expire date) and your bank account book (passbook). I give a self drawn map using MS Powerpoint with various icons (Temple, Army Barracks etc) and it has always been accepted. My extension is also due in April but my 90 day report is due in March. I shall, on that day, also go in the visa queue then ask the IO for what is required for the extension (has anything changed from last year?). For example, one year one set of copies of the relevant bankbook pages was also required but the following they weren't.

[Sumarianson]

I've come to the point where I don't see any advantage to maintaining a visa extension based on marriage.  The only advantage to having it was the ability to work if I wanted. 
However, when I moved to our village I offered to teach English for free as a volunteer to various organizations from schools in our Amphur to local government offices.  My only stipulation was that whoever wanted my services would provide a representative from their organization to work with the Ministry of Labor to obtain a work permit for me prior to my first day to teaching.  That's been an open offer for over four years and not one organization has shown interest.  I've had the normal banter from those organizations to the effect, "No need work permit, you just come teach", to which I have repeatedly said that they don't understand the sanctions imposed on foreigners working illegally, and my answer is emphatically, "No!  No work permit, no free teaching." 
I have multiply years of experience teaching both computer technology and English as a Second Language here in Thailand.  It is so amazingly Thai.  You offer to raise the level of education in a rural setting for free, and there is absolutely no interest.  All I can do is shake my head, but - it ain't my problem.  It's a cultural issue that I doubt will change anytime soon.  I just find it immensely sad.

So with that said, I want to change from an extension based on marriage to an extension based on retirement.  I have both 800K THB in the bank (I'm topping it off today for a extension the expires in early April 2018), and at the present exchange rate my income exceeds the 65K THB/month needed to qualify (I believe that is the amount, correct me if I'm wrong).  So, what is the process for changing from a marriage extension to a retirement extension?  I won't miss the annual picture taking, document shuffling in duplicate if not triplicate, map drawing, and attempting to anticipate what changes and roadblocks have been throw up my immigration to make the marriage extension more of a pain-in-the-butt to obtain then it needs to be each year it rolls around. 

I too am changing my family visa to retirement for a lot of the reasons stated and more, however I was under the impression that the seasoning period for the 800K in the bank was 60days for the initial application for retirement and 90 for subsequent applications? Can somebody with knowledge clarify this as my current visa expires on 9th March 2018 and I had the 800K deposited on the 12th of December.

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[Sumarianson]

You also have to bring your wife, as (depending on where you live) she may be asked to sign a form that she is aware and agrees with you changing to an extension based on retirement. For subsequent retirement extensions that is no longer required, just the first time.

What has your wife or spouse got to do with a retirement visa? If she says no. Is that a ground to refuse a visa? I doubt it. If that were the case there would be a lot more divorces. It's nonsensical. Thailand, the home of nonsensical, stupid, racist, sexist rules.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

I too am changing my family visa to retirement for a lot of the reasons stated and more, however I was under the impression that the seasoning period for the 800K in the bank was 60days for the initial application for retirement and 90 for subsequent applications? Can somebody with knowledge clarify this as my current visa expires on 9th March 2018 and I had the 800K deposited on the 12th of December.

It is 60 days for the first extension based upon retirement. But immigration considers the first extension to be for a 90 day non-o visa entry. The rule is to allow those with a 90 day entry enough time to open a bank account and transfer the money into the country.

When changing from marriage to retirement they will want it to be in the bank for 3 months. Some immigration offices might allow the 60 days but many will not.

If needed  you could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife and then do the one year extension.

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

I too am changing my family visa to retirement for a lot of the reasons stated and more, however I was under the impression that the seasoning period for the 800K in the bank was 60days for the initial application for retirement and 90 for subsequent applications? Can somebody with knowledge clarify this as my current visa expires on 9th March 2018 and I had the 800K deposited on the 12th of December.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What is a Family Visa?

If you have a Non Imm O Visa obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate then funds only need seasoning for 60 days as it will be your first extension application.

If you have an extension based on marriage obtained from an Immigration office, then the seasoning period is 3 months as it's not your first extension.

[spetersen]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

All you have to do is put retirement on the TM7 form  or instead of marriage and prove your income of 65k baht or 800k baht in the bank for 3 months on the date you apply.

Only one TM7 form will be needed plus the normal passport copies and TM6 departure card copies.

If you would like to do the opposite what are the current requirement's ?

I'm on my second extension of  stay based upon retirement and I wonder what is required if I want to change from an extension from retirement to marriage , the financial part is not an issue. I'm just want to know required documents from Immigration, the immigration officeI  I use  is Jomtien. 

[connda]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

All you have to do is put retirement on the TM7 form  or instead of marriage and prove your income of 65k baht or 800k baht in the bank for 3 months on the date you apply.

Only one TM7 form will be needed plus the normal passport copies and TM6 departure card copies.

Are there no other documents required?  Just a TM7 and proof of funds?  That would be nice.

 

[connda]

10 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Your position is not uncommon when offering to work voluntarily.

If they are tasked with providing the documents to the Labour Dept and paying for the WP, then their mind-set is such that it's not free.

 

It may help with specifics of documents if you stated which Immigration office you use.

This is a list of documents for retirement extensions specific to my office. They are one of only about 3 offices that request medical certificates for RE's, so you can likely ignore that requirement.

Extension of Stay based on Retirement..odt

Yeah, but I offered to pay for the cost of the WP.  The only analogy I can come up with is this is like throwing a drowning person a life preserver and then watching them push it away as they go under. 

[connda]

6 hours ago, Ned said:

I went from a retirement extension to a marriage one about 5 years ago. Before that for 8 years it was retirement.

Chiang Mai told me that if I ever went back to a retirement extension then they would never give me a marriage extension again ....... if I changed my mind in the future.

 

Actually, that is technically correct in that you'd need to exit the country, in my case a trip back to the US, to obtain the visa through the Thai embassy in LA.  I'm not sure the Honorary Consulate in Portland would issue one although it would be more convenient for me.  But I'm pretty sure you have to leave the country.  Ubonjoe could affirm. 

[connda]

5 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I used my P60s and my last tax return to prove income.  Got my letter one month ago.  I applied online, submitting the copies by scan/e mail , much easier  and quicker than  by post. 

I'm not a Brit.  I'm from the US.  And considering I have 800K in the bank as of today, I'm not going the income letter route.  But, good info for other Brits. 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Yeah, but I offered to pay for the cost of the WP.  The only analogy I can come up with is this is like throwing a drowning person a life preserver and then watching them push it away as they go under. 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, spetersen said:

If you would like to do the opposite what are the current requirement's ?

I'm on my second extension of  stay based upon retirement and I wonder what is required if I want to change from an extension from retirement to marriage , the financial part is not an issue. I'm just want to know required documents from Immigration, the immigration officeI  I use  is Jomtien. 

If you are used to the friendly retirement-desk, be prepared for a new, less pleasant attitude when you go to the Family desk at that office.  The only reasons I can think of to do this would be: due to being under 50, to allow you to work, or money-issues with the retirement requirements.

 

If you rent, it is especially difficult - requiring a stack of documents relating to the ownership of property, which have Exactly Zero to do with your relationship or proving where or if you live together. 

 

Aside from that, you need a Kor Ror 2 copy and original to show, Kor Ror 3 original, money docs (bank book + letter OR embassy-letter), signed-copies of wife's ID and housebook, 6 pics together around the house, in bed, and by the door with house-number visible, map to house, copy of your passport main-page and last-entry, TM-6 copy, TM-30 receipt present in passport.  Now make 2nd copies of all that, and re-hand-write the main form.  Then, "under consideration" for 30-days, and the police come to your house to confirm you really live there.

 

For the 60-day extension, subtract police-visit, money-docs, pics, and map - but you need all the rest, including the landlord-docs (been there and done this).

[timendres]

I tried to do this in Bangkok 5 years ago. Major problem.

 

(Note, of course, everywhere I say "visa" I am really referring to the extension of stay)

 

The immigration here in Bangkok stated that I could not "just change" my spouse visa to retirement without first "canceling" the spouse visa. I could not provide the evidence to show a divorce in the US where we were married, so they would not cancel the spouse visa. So I said that I will just exit the country to cancel the visa. However, I had a multi-entry visa, so it would not cancel at the border.

 

This became a major discussion, and I was never able to resolve it. I had to wait for the spouse visa to expire, then do the retirement visa. So, be sure to look into all of the details, and ask what is required, because they can throw up absurd road blocks sometimes.

[Amplish]

12 hours ago, Sumarianson said:

What has your wife or spouse got to do with a retirement visa? If she says no. Is that a ground to refuse a visa? I doubt it. If that were the case there would be a lot more divorces. It's nonsensical. Thailand, the home of nonsensical, stupid, racist, sexist rules.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Wow, having fun living here, are we? The reason for extension based on marriage is that you support your Thai spouse, that is no longer a requirement for extension based on retirement. So at least it seems to be common sense, if not the decent thing to do, for immigration to make sure that the spouse is aware that officially you are no longer supporting him/her. Yes, I think that without my wife signing an agreement, I would have been refused my first extension based on retirement.

 

So this 'rule' (I don't think it is an official requirement, just what I experienced), is not exactly non-sensical, nor stupid. I don't know about sexist or racist, or at least not more than anywhere else.