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Eurosceptics baulk as May pitches status quo Brexit transition

By William James

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May arrives to attend the European Union summit in Brussels, Belgium, December 14, 2017. REUTERS/Yves Herman

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May told parliament her plan on Monday for a Brexit transition period with broadly the same access to European Union markets but was met with scepticism from pro-Brexit lawmakers fearful of a watered-down EU exit.

 

May secured an agreement with EU leaders last week to move previously-deadlocked talks forward onto the topic of interim and long-term trading arrangements.

 

On Monday, she reported back to parliament on those talks, setting out the framework of a roughly two-year implementation period designed to smooth Britain's EU exit and provide clarity for businesses and citizens.

 

"This will help give certainty to employers and families that we are going to deliver a smooth Brexit," May said. She added that negotiating guidelines agreed last week point to a shared desire with the EU to make "rapid progress" on a deal.

 

The outline of the transition period that May presented is consistent with plans she has previously set out and largely in line with what Brussels wants, but remains subject to negotiation.

 

"During this strictly time-limited implementation period which we will now begin to negotiate, we would not be in the single market or the customs union, as we will have left the European Union," May said.

 

"But we would propose that our access to one another's markets would continue as now, while we prepare and implement the new processes and new systems that will underpin our future partnership."

 

May said during the interim period, Britain wants to begin registering the arrival of EU citizens in the country in preparation for a new immigration system, and would hope to agree, and even sign, trade deals with non-EU states.

 

"VASSAL STATE"

 

But the plan was not universally accepted by lawmakers in May's Conservative Party, which is deeply divided over the best route out of the bloc.

 

Jacob Rees-Mogg, one of several pro-Brexit Conservatives to express concern, called on May to reject the EU's negotiating guidelines because they would make Britain "no more than a vassal state, a colony, a serf of the European Union."

 

May is reliant on the backing of all members of her party to put her Brexit plans into action, having lost her parliamentary majority in an ill-judged snap election earlier this year which left her needing the support of a small Northern Irish party.

 

Last week May's fragility was exposed by the rebellion of 11 largely pro-European Conservative lawmakers in a parliamentary vote on Brexit legislation that led to an embarrassing defeat. The rebels have since drawn harsh criticism from some party members, and received threats of violence online.

 

"We are dealing with questions of great significance to our country’s future, so it is natural that there are many strongly held views on all sides of this chamber," May said.

 

"But there can never be a place for the threats of violence and intimidation against some members that we have seen in recent days."

 

Earlier on Monday, May met key ministers to discuss the even thornier issue of what the country's long-term relationship with the EU should be - the first time since the June 2016 vote to leave that she has broached the topic with cabinet members.

 

A full cabinet discussion on the so-called "end state" of the Brexit talks is then due on Tuesday.

 

(Reporting by William James; Editing by Matthew Mpoke Bigg)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-19

[FreddieRoyle]

It is so very confusing all this Brexit talk. Allow me to summarize the position Britain is now in.

 

 We will still be in the EEC, in all but name only. We have paid the European bureaucrats 50 odd billion quid for nothing. We are still under European courts rule. We are still unable to control our borders. European fishing fleets have more rights to our waters than we do ourselves.

[Becker]

48 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

It is so very confusing all this Brexit talk. Allow me to summarize the position Britain is now in.

 

 We will still be in the EEC, in all but name only. We have paid the European bureaucrats 50 odd billion quid for nothing. We are still under European courts rule. We are still unable to control our borders. European fishing fleets have more rights to our waters than we do ourselves.

And now allow me to summarize the position Britain is in:

As what happened during the American election the stupid vote won the referendum. Now that a lot of those who voted no have woken up to that fact it's time for you guys to hold another referendum and correct the mistake.

It all boils down to one single fact: You need the EU far more than the EU needs you.  

[FreddieRoyle]

14 minutes ago, Becker said:

And now allow me to summarize the position Britain is in:

As what happened during the American election the stupid vote won the referendum. Now that a lot of those who voted no have woken up to that fact it's time for you guys to hold another referendum and correct the mistake.

It all boils down to one single fact: You need the EU far more than the EU needs you.  

Elitist remainers still don't get it. Calling the majority of people "stupid" does not make them vote how you want them to. Telling us that saving 300 million quid a week can not benefit the UK in any way, is as daft now as it was a year ago. If there is another referendum and your side loses again, will you call for yet another referendum? Yes of course :)

 I'll be straight with you. Having curved bananas will not be a major problem for British food consumers. Nobody should be imprisoned for weighing groceries in lbs and oz's. Brits drive around in German automobiles, not the other way around. Foreign criminals and terrorists living on our taxpayers money while plotting to destroy our country is not what Britishness is about. Get over it - the electorate has spoken. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by FreddieRoyle

[Becker]

55 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Elitist remainers still don't get it. Calling the majority of people "stupid" does not make them vote how you want them to. Telling us that saving 300 million quid a week can not benefit the UK in any way, is as daft now as it was a year ago. If there is another referendum and your side loses again, will you call for yet another referendum? Yes of course :)

 I'll be straight with you. Having curved bananas will not be a major problem for British food consumers. Nobody should be imprisoned for weighing groceries in lbs and oz's. Brits drive around in German automobiles, not the other way around. Foreign criminals and terrorists living on our taxpayers money while plotting to destroy our country is not what Britishness is about. Get over it - the electorate has spoken. 

Cherry picking and distorting a few negative aspects of the EU membership while completely ignoring the many and vitally important positive effects is what the no side has been doing all along.

Realizing that the UK needs the EU FAR more than visa versa is not about being elitist, it's being a realist.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Becker

[FreddieRoyle]

8 minutes ago, Becker said:

Cherry picking and distorting a few negative aspects of the EU membership while completely ignoring the many and vitally important positive effects is what the no side has been doing all along.

Realizing that the UK needs the EU FAR more than visa versa is not about being elitist, it's being a realist.

Well OK, now that you wrote it in bold capitals, I changed my mind - you must be right.

 

How about, drop the arrogant stance and explain in simple terms how the UK needs the EU far more than vice versa? I thought the idea of a common market was essentially a good one, but seeing it has been abused by unelected and unaccountable cultural marxists it is a disaster. The Visegrad countries have the right idea - most of Europe is on track to be carbon copies of Somalia. I keep bringing this up, but in the most progressive EU country Malmo police recently advised women not to walk alone after its dark (about 3pm!!!) because it is not safe any more. The British electorate that you call "stupid" can see this and have voted to retain their culture, identity and lifestyle and will not be cowed by bully boys that can only throw insults around.

[smedly]

and it seems that two of the first three posters on this topic are completely unable to correctly read and summarise a news article, thank god they either have no vote on the matter or a minute part of only 1from 80 million

Edited December 19, 2017 by smedly

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Elitist remainers still don't get it. Calling the majority of people "stupid" does not make them vote how you want them to.

 

Stupid, ignorant, old, xenophobic.

 

Pick 'n Mix to your pleasure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Elitist remainers still don't get it. Calling the majority of people "stupid" does not make them vote how you want them to. Telling us that saving 300 million quid a week can not benefit the UK in any way, is as daft now as it was a year ago. If there is another referendum and your side loses again, will you call for yet another referendum? Yes of course :)

 I'll be straight with you. Having curved bananas will not be a major problem for British food consumers. Nobody should be imprisoned for weighing groceries in lbs and oz's. Brits drive around in German automobiles, not the other way around. Foreign criminals and terrorists living on our taxpayers money while plotting to destroy our country is not what Britishness is about. Get over it - the electorate has spoken. 

You must be the last person to believe that exiting Brexit will save 300 million a week. Even the leaders of the Brexit camp admitted that was false. Of course, they admitted it shortly after the referendum. Because they are honorable people.

[Becker]

35 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Well OK, now that you wrote it in bold capitals, I changed my mind - you must be right.

 

How about, drop the arrogant stance and explain in simple terms how the UK needs the EU far more than vice versa? I thought the idea of a common market was essentially a good one, but seeing it has been abused by unelected and unaccountable cultural marxists it is a disaster. The Visegrad countries have the right idea - most of Europe is on track to be carbon copies of Somalia. I keep bringing this up, but in the most progressive EU country Malmo police recently advised women not to walk alone after its dark (about 3pm!!!) because it is not safe any more. The British electorate that you call "stupid" can see this and have voted to retain their culture, identity and lifestyle and will not be cowed by bully boys that can only throw insults around.

I'm not here to educate you and you're not interested in getting educated. You just proved that by the less than bright reference to Somalia.

[smedly]

47 minutes ago, Becker said:

I'm not here to educate you and you're not interested in getting educated. You just proved that by the less than bright reference to Somalia.

hands up who is actually from the UK posting here - me for one

 

and those that keep quoting the 300m a day thing are quite frankly deluded, I never gave it one thought and still don't, I voted to leave primarily because it the EU has evolved into something I never voted to join - I have no wish to be a part of the "United States of Germany".

 

The EEC was fine and a great idea but what we have now is an entirely different animal and I dread to think what it will look like in another 20 years if it lasts that long which I doubt.

 

I have friends who voted remain and after seeing the recent exposed innards of what the EU really is - have become firm leavers.

 

Yes a trade agreement with the EU was fine it was called the EEC (common market) but that is not what we have anymore, the UK is slowly but surely sinking while Germany prospers - anyone see anything wrong there ? - only one country of the 28 is actually gaining, go figure

 

Some people need to waken up and see what seems to me so obvious

 

The UK will do far better on its own being able to trade with whoever they like without having to ask for German permission - sorry but that is the reality.

 

Even the original people that were the visionaries of both the EU and the single currency have admitted it was not what they had intended and is very possibly doomed. 

 

We want our laws back - our sovereignty back - our borders back and our future firmly in our own hands with the ability to trade across the planet as we chose, will we ever see an extra 300million going to the NHS ? I have absolutely no doubt and then some

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

and it seems that two of the first three posters on this topic are completely unable to correctly read and summarise a news article, thank god they either have no vote on the matter or a minute part of only 1from 80 million

80 million? Last time I checked the population of the UK was only 66 million. Are you saying that the Russians hacked the referendum? That might explain the results.

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, Becker said:

Cherry picking and distorting a few negative aspects of the EU membership while completely ignoring the many and vitally important positive effects is what the no side has been doing all along.

Realizing that the UK needs the EU FAR more than visa versa is not about being elitist, it's being a realist.

Cherry picking, how about these.

The British electorate have been screwed again by our treacherous politicians.

 

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Elitist remainers still don't get it. Calling the majority of people "stupid" does not make them vote how you want them to. Telling us that saving 300 million quid a week can not benefit the UK in any way, is as daft now as it was a year ago. If there is another referendum and your side loses again, will you call for yet another referendum? Yes of course :)

 I'll be straight with you. Having curved bananas will not be a major problem for British food consumers. Nobody should be imprisoned for weighing groceries in lbs and oz's. Brits drive around in German automobiles, not the other way around. Foreign criminals and terrorists living on our taxpayers money while plotting to destroy our country is not what Britishness is about. Get over it - the electorate has spoken. 

Well I was going to pick holes in this but to be honest Freddie's head is buried so far down in the sand it wouldn't get through to him.  For him to refer to the £300 million (actually it was £350 million but what's £50 million between friends) shows just how off kilter he is.  Ironically the Financial Times yesterday published an assessment of the effects of Brexit as it is today (before we actually leave) and we have gone from the most successful of the G7 to the least successful.  Also just to add to Freddie's woes the downturn of growth has resulted in us being £350 million a week worse off rather than the Brexit boys claim of being that figure better off.  But hey! Freddie is entitled to his opinion, no matter how naïve it is. 

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

hands up who is actually from the UK posting here - me for one

 

and those that keep quoting the 300m a day thing are quite frankly deluded, I never gave it one thought and still don't, I voted to leave primarily because it the EU has evolved into something I never voted to join - I have no wish to be a part of the "United States of Germany".

 

The EEC was fine and a great idea but what we have now is an entirely different animal and I dread to think what it will look like in another 20 years if it lasts that long which I doubt.

 

I have friends who voted remain and after seeing the recent exposed innards of what the EU really is - have become firm leavers.

 

Yes a trade agreement with the EU was fine it was called the EEC (common market) but that is not what we have anymore, the UK is slowly but surely sinking while Germany prospers - anyone see anything wrong there ? - only one country of the 28 is actually gaining, go figure

 

Some people need to waken up and see what seems to me so obvious

 

The UK will do far better on its own being able to trade with whoever they like without having to ask for German permission - sorry but that is the reality.

 

Even the original people that were the visionaries of both the EU and the single currency have admitted it was not what they had intended and is very possibly doomed. 

 

We want our laws back - our sovereignty back - our borders back and our future firmly in our own hands with the ability to trade across the planet as we chose, will we ever see an extra 300million going to the NHS ? I have absolutely no doubt and then some

How many on here, stating that we should remain in the E.U. are actually Brits.

A very good question, that has been asked on other similar threads. 

Strangely, a number of poster who want us to remain in this so-called union, are not Brits, but E.U citizens. I cannot think why.

[dunroaming]

19 minutes ago, nontabury said:

How many on here, stating that we should remain in the E.U. are actually Brits.

A very good question, that has been asked on other similar threads. 

Strangely, a number of poster who want us to remain in this so-called union, are not Brits, but E.U citizens. I cannot think why.

Well I am a Brit and one of the 48% who voted to remain.  Now I am aware that this is Thai Visa and therefore hardly likely to have a majority of Brits as contributors and I suspect the majority of the Brits on here don't live in the UK anymore either.

 

Of course if you look at the British websites you will find numerous ones where a predominantly British audience bicker in much the same way as here on TV.  Brexit has split the country with both sides passionate about where it is going to leave the country after we are out of the EU.  What adds to the vitriol is the way that the government are handling this messy divorce.  Both sides are massively disappointed in how it is going and angry that they are continually lied to by the likes of Davis and May.

 

The leave voters are angry because this not what they voted for and the remainers are angry because the so called negotiators are not producing anything positive that isn't going to leave the UK worse off than they are now.  A soft Brexit is not a win for remainers, it just means we are more or less in the same position but without a voice or seat at the table.  Total mess all round! 

 

Boris calls it a Vassal State and he has a point!

Edited December 19, 2017 by dunroaming

[smedly]

35 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Well I am a Brit and one of the 48% who voted to remain.  Now I am aware that this is Thai Visa and therefore hardly likely to have a majority of Brits as contributors and I suspect the majority of the Brits on here don't live in the UK anymore either.

 

Of course if you look at the British websites you will find numerous ones where a predominantly British audience bicker in much the same way as here on TV.  Brexit has split the country with both sides passionate about where it is going to leave the country after we are out of the EU.  What adds to the vitriol is the way that the government are handling this messy divorce.  Both sides are massively disappointed in how it is going and angry that they are continually lied to by the likes of Davis and May.

 

The leave voters are angry because this not what they voted for and the remainers are angry because the so called negotiators are not producing anything positive that isn't going to leave the UK worse off than they are now.  A soft Brexit is not a win for remainers, it just means we are more or less in the same position but without a voice or seat at the table.  Total mess all round! 

 

Boris calls it a Vassal State and he has a point!

you use the words bicker - vitriol - anger - lied - mess, then attack others that can actually put a post together that means something and offers some logic.

 

You have made your point numerous times but still fail to realise that the UK.....United Kingdom is leaving the EU, that might be a hard pill to swallow but it is a fact.

 

Your opinion is your right but it is just that.................an opinion

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

You have made your point numerous times but still fail to realise that the UK.....United Kingdom is leaving the EU, that might be a hard pill to swallow but it is a fact.

 

Your opinion is your right but it is just that.................an opinion

Yes you are right, just my opinion.  And yes you are right we are leaving the EU and again you are right it is a hard pill to swallow.  No argument from me on any of those points.

 

However I know it is a hard pill that we all have to swallow as it is highly unlikely that Brexit will be reversed.  But please tell me why I shouldn't be worried about us leaving the EU?  Please tell me the positives you see because I am struggling to see any at all. I do keep banging the same old drum and I will continue to do so until someone gives me a reason to stop. This is no longer about who voted leave or who voted stay.  It is about where we end up and at what cost.  Can you honestly see May and friends delivering what the people voted for?

[dunroaming]

Gone very quiet so I ask again.  Does anyone really think that people will get what they voted for?

 

[dunroaming]

nontabury, thanks for replying.  Whatever the outcome of Brexit it will not really affect me as much as it would have done as I made a contingency plan.  However it is my son's future that I think we are endangering.  I take your point about the PM being a remainer which is why I really couldn't understand her opening gambit about definitely leaving the single market and customs union and threatening "no deal is better than a bad deal".  Also her choice to have Boris in her cabinet and then appointing hard line Brexiteers Davis and Fox to run the negotiations. Then fighting hard to not let parliament have a say in the result. Not something you would expect from a remainer at all.

 

Still we are where we are.  Just seen another report that the NHS is now in more trouble as there are not going to be enough doctors and nurses with EU recruitment down 80% and some leaving already. They have already started a recruitment campaign in India and the Philippines to bring over nurses but replacing the doctors is not going to be easy at all.

 

But let's see how May gets on with the transition period, that should help a lot.  I will try to stop whinging so much, even I am fed up with my moaning on and on! 

[shackleton]

As one who never voted and live in Thailand

i can see the Brexiteers are in for a rude awakening as everything they are after 

Free movement of people

single Market

customs union ect 

Is not  going to happen or will be watered down

I am  as others are more concerned how the pound will react

[Sir Dude]

The UK will not get what it voted for....it will leave only in name and will remain in all other ways as the politicians want something different to the public vote. What the UK will get is a soft business Brexit as corporatism has triumphed really. 

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.   You can stop with silly memes.  A picture is worth a 1,000 words, but not if you're not saying anything to begin with.  

[smedly]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Yes you are right, just my opinion.  And yes you are right we are leaving the EU and again you are right it is a hard pill to swallow.  No argument from me on any of those points.

 

However I know it is a hard pill that we all have to swallow as it is highly unlikely that Brexit will be reversed.  But please tell me why I shouldn't be worried about us leaving the EU?  Please tell me the positives you see because I am struggling to see any at all. I do keep banging the same old drum and I will continue to do so until someone gives me a reason to stop. This is no longer about who voted leave or who voted stay.  It is about where we end up and at what cost.  Can you honestly see May and friends delivering what the people voted for?

staying in the EU would be great if you were German because that is the only country that has gained anything

 

I believe you said in an earlier post about heads in the sand.................maybe you should give that a little more thought

 

and BTW, when the UK does leave the EU both Germany and France will effectively leave too......go look up what "two speed Europe" means

 

seriously and I am not being funny when I say this...........the UK and most others have been shafted for years, like I keep saying and will keep saying................there is only one country that has made it good ...... go on have a guess and then ask yourself why

 

 

anyway I'm done with this, the EEC was great, open your eyes my friend and take a long hard look at the finances of Germany and the UK and ask yourself why there is such a massive gap when we have been doing so well..................really ????????????

 

head in sand and it definitely is not mine

[smedly]

PS - I also think the UK is now in a position to play hardball, they have made the "money offer" and walking away is still an option, I have seen the EU trying to lock in these so called agreements but that is not going to happen...........Nothing is agreed Until "Everything" is agreed

 

Lets see how the mighty Barnier tries to tell the 26 countries of the EU that there is no deal with the UK...........I think not, he would be swiftly removed

 

are these talks now going to be difficult..........I actually don't think so, oh yes various people in Brussels have said that the next stage is going to be so much harder..........I don't think so, they have the money pledge - now pressure will be mounting from the 26 countries to get this over and done as quickly as possible.

 

Now if I had to devise a tactic in the Brussels camp I would try and hold up everything until there was an election due in the UK..........that might actually have been possible if T May hadn't called an early election...but she did and that was a masterful move even though the result was less than perfect..........but from a strategic point of view it had to happen, the worst thing would have been for an election in the UK mid negotiations 

[Khun Han]

13 hours ago, nontabury said:

How many on here, stating that we should remain in the E.U. are actually Brits.

A very good question, that has been asked on other similar threads. 

Strangely, a number of poster who want us to remain in this so-called union, are not Brits, but E.U citizens. I cannot think why.

 

I can. Money. 

[Khun Han]

12 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well I am a Brit and one of the 48% who voted to remain.  Now I am aware that this is Thai Visa and therefore hardly likely to have a majority of Brits as contributors and I suspect the majority of the Brits on here don't live in the UK anymore either.

 

Of course if you look at the British websites you will find numerous ones where a predominantly British audience bicker in much the same way as here on TV.  Brexit has split the country with both sides passionate about where it is going to leave the country after we are out of the EU.  What adds to the vitriol is the way that the government are handling this messy divorce.  Both sides are massively disappointed in how it is going and angry that they are continually lied to by the likes of Davis and May.

 

The leave voters are angry because this not what they voted for and the remainers are angry because the so called negotiators are not producing anything positive that isn't going to leave the UK worse off than they are now.  A soft Brexit is not a win for remainers, it just means we are more or less in the same position but without a voice or seat at the table.  Total mess all round! 

 

Boris calls it a Vassal State and he has a point!

 

 

Stop the disingenuity. It's mostly going to plan for you and your like at the moment. You're beginning to sound like a PAD or PDRC speaker.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

PS - I also think the UK is now in a position to play hardball, they have made the "money offer" and walking away is still an option, I have seen the EU trying to lock in these so called agreements but that is not going to happen...........Nothing is agreed Until "Everything" is agreed

 

Lets see how the mighty Barnier tries to tell the 26 countries of the EU that there is no deal with the UK...........I think not, he would be swiftly removed

 

are these talks now going to be difficult..........I actually don't think so, oh yes various people in Brussels have said that the next stage is going to be so much harder..........I don't think so, they have the money pledge - now pressure will be mounting from the 26 countries to get this over and done as quickly as possible.

 

Now if I had to devise a tactic in the Brussels camp I would try and hold up everything until there was an election due in the UK..........that might actually have been possible if T May hadn't called an early election...but she did and that was a masterful move even though the result was less than perfect..........but from a strategic point of view it had to happen, the worst thing would have been for an election in the UK mid negotiations 

And of course, the result of this "masterful move' has nothing at all to do with May. Anyway, I will concede that about it being a masterful move, the DUP agrees with you 100 percent.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

staying in the EU would be great if you were German because that is the only country that has gained anything

 

I believe you said in an earlier post about heads in the sand.................maybe you should give that a little more thought

 

and BTW, when the UK does leave the EU both Germany and France will effectively leave too......go look up what "two speed Europe" means

 

seriously and I am not being funny when I say this...........the UK and most others have been shafted for years, like I keep saying and will keep saying................there is only one country that has made it good ...... go on have a guess and then ask yourself why

 

 

anyway I'm done with this, the EEC was great, open your eyes my friend and take a long hard look at the finances of Germany and the UK and ask yourself why there is such a massive gap when we have been doing so well..................really ????????????

 

head in sand and it definitely is not mine

If you were being serious, you would be providing hard information instead of unbacked assertions. 

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

80 million? Last time I checked the population of the UK was only 66 million. Are you saying that the Russians hacked the referendum? That might explain the results.

 

Sad as it may seem I did read earlier this month that some activists in the UK were claiming Russian interference in the referendum!

With the likes of Balmy Boris, Gutless Gove and Nick "I'm a good bloke because I drink pints of bitter" Farage all lying through their teeth, the Russians didn't need too. They were probably too busy laughing at the gullible British electorate, well 52% of them!

 

Notice how you can quickly be forgiven for lying if your're a politician who went to the right school, universities and come from the right background? That "privileged special class" have never liked the EU as it was eroding their power, not to mention their tax evasion!