Thai Police Arrest British Man Wanted On Child Rape Charges

[Robski]

Not really, PB says about criminal record checks and verification of degrees. I see you've just joined us Aquiesce, why don't you look into the teaching forum and read through some of the threads concerning these kind of matters. I wouldn't say I'm wrong, I would say that PB doesn't deserve to get flamed. Threads like this always degenerate, people start making accusation that somebody is irrational when that in itself is usually an emotional reaction. The bad publicity this case has caused, exacerbates an already difficult time for teachers and foreigners in this country. So no not wrong just p'd off. Peace.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Robski

[atlastaname]

Not really, PB says about criminal record checks and verification of degrees. I see you've just joined us Aquiesce, why don't you look into the teaching forum and read through some of the threads concerning these kind of matters. I wouldn't say I'm wrong, I would say that PB doesn't deserve to get flamed. Threads like this always degenerate, people start making accusation that somebody is irrational when that in itself is usually an emotional reaction. The bad publicity this case has caused, exacerbates an already difficult time for teachers and foreigners in this country. So no not wrong just p'd off. Peace.

NO Robski, Aquiesce is quite right , we can all read what PB said and it is YOU that have read it wrong.

Maybe PB typed it wrong , maybe that wasn't what he meant (i think it is what he meant ) , either way it IS what he wrote. So no-one with a criminal record should be alloweed into Thailand on a O or a B visa . I think thats absurd.

But then Robski , you and your "hang them and flog them " brigade aren't intertested in the detail are you . You just want everyone who breaks the law banished forever whilst you can go on living your squeaky clean life. Everyone who breaks the law is a animal , to be treated like dirt forever. Right Robski?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think we're getting off the topic here, but if I can put in my two cents, *I* think PB's suggestion is not unreasonable. After all, when you are talking about immigration, you don't want people with much of a criminal history- neither does any country, and many of them consider criminal history in the context of granting or refusing visas, residency, citizenship, and other important privileges.

Granted, all forms of criminal history are not equal. Where to draw the line is a matter for legislative debate, but surely the line should be drawn somewhere. And in terms of "O" visas, where the recipient is likely to stay in the country a long time (probably because married) or "B" visas, where the recipient will be working, quite possibly with children, I'd say the lines are important. It doesn't mean that the ANY and ALL criminal history should result in a rejected application (that's setting up a bit of a straw man argument), but that such a history should be considered if it exists.

With some sort of safeguards in place, the gentleman in question on this thread would not have been able to be a LEGAL worker or non-tourist resident. Given the lax enforcement of laws here, that may not well have stopped him, but the point could have been made that he was illegal and it was not the government's fault but rather the school's that he was working there.

In fact, WAS he legal? If not, then why aren't people baying for the blood of the school managers who hire illegal aliens rather than obeying their own legal system? Why isn't the school named? Why are these schools constantly being protected from the consequences of exposing children to these questionable persons?

"Steven"

[atlastaname]

I think we're getting off the topic here, but if I can put in my two cents, *I* think PB's suggestion is not unreasonable. After all, when you are talking about immigration, you don't want people with much of a criminal history- neither does any country, and many of them consider criminal history in the context of granting or refusing visas, residency, citizenship, and other important privileges.

Granted, all forms of criminal history are not equal. Where to draw the line is a matter for legislative debate, but surely the line should be drawn somewhere. And in terms of "O" visas, where the recipient is likely to stay in the country a long time (probably because married) or "B" visas, where the recipient will be working, quite possibly with children, I'd say the lines are important. It doesn't mean that the ANY and ALL criminal history should result in a rejected application (that's setting up a bit of a straw man argument), but that such a history should be considered if it exists.

With some sort of safeguards in place, the gentleman in question on this thread would not have been able to be a LEGAL worker or non-tourist resident. Given the lax enforcement of laws here, that may not well have stopped him, but the point could have been made that he was illegal and it was not the government's fault but rather the school's that he was working there.

In fact, WAS he legal? If not, then why aren't people baying for the blood of the school managers who hire illegal aliens rather than obeying their own legal system? Why isn't the school named? Why are these schools constantly being protected from the consequences of exposing children to these questionable persons?

"Steven"

At last !! A well written , well reasoned post.

I would point out though that you can go to Thailand on a O visa just by saying you are visiting (Thai) friends , you don't have to have family connections although that is the norm. Whilst i agree checks must be in place for teachers , i don't think they should be for O visa holders , as that would mean saying those with criminal records would be barred from long term visiting of their Thai friends. That is going too far.

[PeaceBlondie]

Because I still hold a valid Texas driver's license, I am licensed to exaggerate a trillion times per nanosecond. I exaggerated.

Let me restate my position, please. I think that every country should guard its borders against illegal immigrants, and against convicted felons who want to reside indefinitely. That's whom I included when I suggested background criminal checks for all O and B visa holders (but I didn't mean 30-day; more like one year with annual renewals). Do you think that only teachers are pedophiles or killers? On another forum, the American Republicans and Democrats are proving that both major political parties have had over 25 politicians convicted of pedophilia (most of it heterosexual, of course).

Don't bother to read all 4,100 of my posts, but please review my prior 2 or 3 posts in this thread before you assume I've gone off the deep end. Thailand is not a country of the rule of law, exactly; not a country of the rule of exact laws. They do things half-heartedly, inconsistently, or haphazardly. They say they'll crackdown and they don't; they crackdown for a month or two or three (such as thousands of extrajudicial killings of Thais, or 84 southern Thai Muslims) and then quit.

Let's repeat this once yet again, deja vu: The government of Thailand is very unlikely to even figure out a potentially workable system of doing criminal background checks on foreigners. They don't know Iceland from Ireland, Belfast from Balfour. Most Thai school administrators who make such decisions to hire foreign teachers, can't decipher an academic transcript, verify a bachelor's degree, or read a visa. They do not even know how to make an international phone call, and their secretaries don't understand time zones. It cannot be done properly, and it will not be done properly. That's a crying shame, and it's not the farangs' fault.

Would I let my kids get an education in Thailand? No. Would I let my kids teach in Thailand? No. Too much risk, too much uncertainty. For every student named Cyril or Cedric who manages to get a first class education at the very best real actual international school, there are 497 Egberts, Susies, Sasapachas and Pongsakats who get a lousy education. Then again, maybe I exaggerate.

[endure]

it's always possible ( but unlikely ) there are some very highly qualified - i.e.degree bearing truck drivers in the UK

One of the regular posters on Thaivisa is a UK resident, degree bearing truck driver.

[the]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

[JacknDanny]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

A bit defensive arent you?

[El Taco Loco]

Learn to read. PB said (read quote below)..... checks on ALL farang here on O and B. Nothing in his post separated TEACHERS.

So get off your high camel.

Hold on a second, what PB is saying and what most people would agree is that criminal record checks and verification of degrees is necessary for teaching, but the Thai authorities, although they have made regulations to this affect, are unable to do these checks effectively. And it's true.

So get off your high horse.

[jumnien]

"those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), ""

hmm... skipped bail .... as yet unconvicted and innocent..... hmmm?????

[Scott]

I work at a school. As it now stands, we are responsible for checking the degrees and getting the police clearance. This system is really open to the same misuse and "corruption" that exists already. It needs to be the MOE that does this sort of thing.

If someone offers a bribe or a school really needs a teacher, or people are too lazy, how long before this stuff is just made up?

Once it's in the hands of the MOE, then they can check (or not check), the point is people will be taking a really HUGE risk in submitting fraudulent documents. The same is true for police clearances.

Doing otherwise is leaving the fox to guard the chicken coop.

[sriracha john]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

Would you identify the school, please?

Thank you.

[helicoptor]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

Nope

[bendix]

Rather than ban farang with criminal records or (alleged) dubious sexual tastes from entering Thailand, I have an alternative suggestion.

Let's ban discussion of it on ThaiVisa.

I dread seeing these stories on the news or in the papers because I know that next day ThaiVisa will explode in a burst of moral righteousness and indignation, with members clamouring over each other to be the loudest to condemn the accused. Each thread (and let's face it - there are dozens of them and we could easily just cut and paste them, because they are all the same) starts with a sober stating of the news, followed by some calm and considered responses and then - BAMMMM. By ten posts in, someone has suggested hanging or castration, and so it begins . . . . . . .

One doesnt even need to read this thread; we could just as easily read the dozens of identical ones on the American guy, or Gary Glitter or whoever.

[helicoptor]

Rather than ban farang with criminal records or (alleged) dubious sexual tastes from entering Thailand, I have an alternative suggestion.

Let's ban discussion of it on ThaiVisa.

Killjoy

I dread seeing these stories on the news or in the papers because I know that next day ThaiVisa will explode in a burst of moral righteousness and indignation, with members clamouring over each other to be the loudest to condemn the accused. Each thread (and let's face it - there are dozens of them and we could easily just cut and paste them, because they are all the same) starts with a sober stating of the news, followed by some calm and considered responses and then - BAMMMM. By ten posts in, someone has suggested hanging or castration, and so it begins . . . . . . .

I know - great isn't it

One doesnt even need to read this thread; we could just as easily read the dozens of identical ones on the American guy, or Gary Glitter or whoever.

Nahhh - lets just start over again .. and again .. and again

[StateSix]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

Not everyone on here has been spewing utter dribble (did you mean drivel?)

Knowing how these things work I would guess there is some pretty strong evidence against him if he was charged. They will not be relying on the childs word against his, so there is likely forensic evidence linking him to the crime. The fact that he absconded whilst on bail is not a good sign either.

By the way TEFL is not a teaching degree. And how do you know that he has a degree in engineering? Did he tell you that? It's possible that people who run off to other countries after being charged with child sex offences may tell lies about their pasts.

[Tony Montana]

The subject is not new & I think there will be other case's.I do find it quite frightening that this man was bailed & traveled to Thailand & teached for a number of years.

I think its all a sorry state of affairs,we dont know the circumstance's to the crimes,presuming his guilty but these predator type men should be dealt with more seriously.If he had defrauded the VAT man of a large sum of money,I bet he would have been dealt with more swiftly & sternly.It happens every other week here in the UK,these type of men reoffending etc.Why take the risk,these men ruin live's plain & simple.I dont know what the answers are but bail & freedom to travel dont appear to work.It make's you wonder how many men like this,in society exsist.

[sriracha john]

Rape suspect fled in flood

The suspected paedophile seized in Thailand escaped arrest in 2004 because of the Boxing Day tsunami, it emerged yesterday.

The disaster, which killed 300,000 people, happened as Thai cops were about to nick Sean McMahon.

He went on to live and work with kids in the Thai capital, Bangkok, for two years.

Cops arrested him at his flat there on Monday.

McMahon, 45, vanished after appearing in court in Torbay, Devon, in 1999 charged with raping an eight-year-old girl.

An extradition application is now set to be heard in Thailand.

Sgt Steve Blair of Torbay Police said: “The tsunami effectively killed the momentum in the hunt.”

- The Sun (UK)

[leisurely]

Unreal. Does anyone know at which school he taught

[atlastaname]

Rather than ban farang with criminal records or (alleged) dubious sexual tastes from entering Thailand, I have an alternative suggestion.

Let's ban discussion of it on ThaiVisa.

I dread seeing these stories on the news or in the papers because I know that next day ThaiVisa will explode in a burst of moral righteousness and indignation, with members clamouring over each other to be the loudest to condemn the accused. Each thread (and let's face it - there are dozens of them and we could easily just cut and paste them, because they are all the same) starts with a sober stating of the news, followed by some calm and considered responses and then - BAMMMM. By ten posts in, someone has suggested hanging or castration, and so it begins . . . . . . .

One doesnt even need to read this thread; we could just as easily read the dozens of identical ones on the American guy, or Gary Glitter or whoever.

The above post has said what i have been trying to say , but he has put it much better than I did. People seem incapable of having a sensible rational discussion about such topics (mention Gary Glitter and see all the rubbish that comes back ... from the same people that adored him in the seventies as well!!) , choosing the easy way out and posting short one liners which contribute nothing to the discussion.

I do disagree that they should be banned on thaivisa though. We have more than enough censorship here as it is (how long now before this thread gets closed without warning?) , lets not encouage more.

[JacknDanny]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

Not everyone on here has been spewing utter dribble (did you mean drivel?)

Knowing how these things work I would guess there is some pretty strong evidence against him if he was charged. They will not be relying on the childs word against his, so there is likely forensic evidence linking him to the crime. The fact that he absconded whilst on bail is not a good sign either.

By the way TEFL is not a teaching degree. And how do you know that he has a degree in engineering? Did he tell you that? It's possible that people who run off to other countries after being charged with child sex offences may tell lies about their pasts.

Excellent and accurate

[mopenyang]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

My guess is you may be as confused about his engineering degree as you are about his "teaching degree (tefl)."

[JacknDanny]

Do any of you remember the saying about those without sin casting the first stone? Scrolling through your replies to this topic makes me realize how high on your hobby horses you sit.

I know this guy--have known him since 1999 (and no, I didn't know of his alleged crime in the UK). He does have a degree (in engineering) as well as a teaching degree (tefl) which he did out here a few years ago. So he wouldn't have been picked up when he applied for his teaching jobs. Thus he's probably more qualified than a lot of you out there shooting your mouths off. He didn't start teaching until about 2 years ago. He entered the country on a tourist visa and since the UK (at least in 1999) didn't publish internationally those who had skipped bail (i.e. as yet unconvicted and innocent), how would he been picked up upon entering Thailand?

I'm not condoning anything he's done. A lot of people who know him are very shocked by the allegations and certainly would not have suspected him of doing such a heinous crime. But you all should look to the facts and put your brains in gear before opening yor mouths and spewing such utter dribble. Don't you have anything better to do?

My guess is you may be as confused about his engineering degree as you are about his "teaching degree (tefl)."

"engineering degree" probably means he had a Meccano set when he was a kid

[Backpack_thailand]

This guy is an ex Kanchanaburi resident I'm embarrased to say. Met him a few times..!!

[November Rain]

Rape suspect fled in flood

The suspected paedophile seized in Thailand escaped arrest in 2004 because of the Boxing Day tsunami, it emerged yesterday.

The disaster, which killed 300,000 people, happened as Thai cops were about to nick Sean McMahon.

He went on to live and work with kids in the Thai capital, Bangkok, for two years.

Cops arrested him at his flat there on Monday.

McMahon, 45, vanished after appearing in court in Torbay, Devon, in 1999 charged with raping an eight-year-old girl.

An extradition application is now set to be heard in Thailand.

Sgt Steve Blair of Torbay Police said: “The tsunami effectively killed the momentum in the hunt.”

- The Sun (UK)

Aah, The Sun - eloquent, articulate, factual & informative journalism. Having this sort of publication as one of the most popular daily newspapers in UK makes me proud to be British...

[sriracha john]

Channel 3 News just reported that Mr. McMahon has worked as a teacher in Bangkok for the past 4 years, but did not name the school.

The fact that the suspect lived in the northern part of Bangkok suggests that it was more likely to be a school in that area.

Actually on BBC News the reporter said a"private international" school, given there is much less checking at private schools than international schools it would probably turn out to be the former.

Why isn't the school named? Why are these schools constantly being protected from the consequences of exposing children to these questionable persons?

I know this guy--have known him since 1999

Would you identify the school, please?

Thank you.

Unreal. Does anyone know at which school he taught

It was unclear when McMahon came to Thailand, although police said they believed he had been working as an English teacher for several years here. The name of the school at which he was employed has been kept confidential by police.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116071

[Ijustwannateach]

Good detective work, SRJ!!! I invite anyone who knows what school it is to HINT STRONGLY which school it is, without of course saying directly that "this is the school." After all, we wouldn't want trouble from anyone who protects the schools where pedophiles are employed.

"Steven"

[paulmw]

Jeez what a sicko. It's worrying that they think he may have been teaching over here, but thank god they're getting rid of him and hopefully it shows that the reforms are hitting the right people. Well done to the Thai authorities, can't say the same about the UK authorities who typically gave him bail in the first place. I wish he was getting his justice Thai style rather than getting shipped home to get locked up in protection with all the other nonces.

Quote I wish he was getting his justice thai syle???

What happened to the 2 Thai teachers done for simlar thing a few months ago about the same time as ary was pulled.

That went very quite.

Its not only falangs that need checking over this

Paul

[roamer]

Good detective work, SRJ!!! I invite anyone who knows what school it is to HINT STRONGLY which school it is, without of course saying directly that "this is the school." After all, we wouldn't want trouble from anyone who protects the schools where pedophiles are employed.

"Steven"

I'm more than ever inclined to think it was a private school rather than an international school, my reasoning being that the latter tend to employ quite a few farang and i think in that case someone would have broke it either on Ajarn or here. Strange that those who claim to know him, even to the extend of knowing when he began teaching, seem unable to name the school.

[alleykat]

The name of the school he worked at is called Pathai Udom Suksa in Laksi, on Viphawadhi Rangsit Road, near the Police Club.