EU tells Poland to reverse judicial reforms or face sanctions

[webfact]

EU tells Poland to reverse judicial reforms or face sanctions

By Jan Strupczewski and Marcin Goettig

 

European Commission First Vice-President Frans Timmermans addresses a news conference at the EU Commission headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, December 20, 2017. REUTERS/Francois Lenoir

 

BRUSSELS/WARSAW (Reuters) - The EU executive launched an unprecedented action against Poland on Wednesday, calling on other member states to prepare to sanction Warsaw if it fails to reverse judicial reforms that Brussels says pose a threat to democracy.

 

Voicing frustration after two years of fruitless requests to the right-wing government, the European Commission gave the socially conservative Law and Justice party in Warsaw three months to change tack.

 

But Poland fired back defiantly and was reassured that like-minded allies in Hungary would veto the ultimate sanction of suspending Poland's voting rights in the bloc.

 

Budapest said on Tuesday that the move by the Commission violated Poland's sovereignty.

 

Germany and other Western powers threw their weight behind Brussels, which argued that Polish ruling party leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski's push to have control of judicial appointments poses an "existential" threat to EU norms.

 

The first ever move to deploy the EU's "nuclear option" under Article 7 of the 2009 Lisbon treaty marks a major escalation in tensions with eurosceptics in formerly communist eastern Europe, just as wealthy Western governments prepare to hold down funding for their subsidies in an EU budget hit hard by the departure of second-ranked economy Britain.

 

"The Commission has today concluded that there is a clear risk of a serious breach of the rule of law in Poland," the Commission said in a statement.

 

"Judicial reforms in Poland mean that the country's judiciary is now under the political control of the ruling majority. In the absence of judicial independence, serious questions are raised about the effective application of EU law."

 

In response, PiS, which runs a nationalist agenda, said reforms were necessary and accused the Commission of taking a decision motivated by politics and not by facts.

 

"This may be an effect not only of the opposition's informing (on Poland to the EC) but also because we don't want to accept immigrants, we don't want to accept Muslim migrants, as we care for the security of Poles," ruling party spokeswoman Beata Mazurek told reporters.

 

Since coming into power in 2015, the eurosceptic Law and Justice party (PiS) has quarrelled with Brussels over its push to assume more control of the courts and public media, as well as over migration policy.

 

Critics in Brussels have said PiS policies amount to a tilt towards authoritarianism and subvert the bloc's democratic values, noting in particular the court reforms.

 

Hours after the Commission's decision, President Andrzej Duda announced he was signing the legislation into law, clearing the final hurdle before the changes go into effect.

 

TALKS AHEAD

 

The European Commission, the guardian of EU law, will now ask the other EU governments to declare that Poland's changes to the judiciary constitute "a clear risk of a serious breach" of EU values -- especially the rule of law.

 

However, it gave Warsaw, where a new prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, took office only this month, three months to remedy the situation and said it could rescind its decision if it did so. Morawiecki said he was ready for talks in January.

 

At the heart of the issue is an overhaul of courts that gives the PiS-controlled parliament de facto control over the selection of judges and ends the term of some Supreme Court judges early.

 

The PiS government rejects accusations of undemocratic behaviour and says reforms are needed because the courts are slow, inefficient and steeped in a communist era-mentality.

 

The government remains highly popular at home due to low unemployment, generous welfare spending and an increased emphasis on conservative Catholic values.

 

Many Poles are also wary of further integration, membership of the euro currency and any plans to enforce the relocation of refugees from the Middle East to EU states.

 

But PiS is mindful that opinion polls show overall support for EU membership runs at nearly 80 percent, more than in many other EU states, a reflection in part of the economic self-interest generated by EU subsidies.

 

Public broadcaster TVP, which has become a vehicle for PiS to address its conservative electorate, ran a news ticker on Wednesday saying the Commission's deputy head, First Vice President Frans Timmermans, "wanted to deny Poland the right to reform its country".

 

Another one said Berlin and Brussels were on an "offensive against Poland since Warsaw asked for reparations", in a reference to government comments in recent months that Germany still owed Poland money for the economic and human losses it suffered in World War Two.

 

Timmermans, who has conducted talks with Warsaw over the issue for the past two years, said he was acting "with a heavy heart" but was obliged to take action to protect the Union as a whole.

 

"We are open for dialogue 24/7," Timmermans said.

 

But he insisted: "As guardians of the treaty, the Commission is under a strict responsibility to act ... If the application of the rule of law is left completely to the individual member states, then the whole of the EU will suffer."

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May is expected to raise the issue during a visit to Warsaw on Thursday.

 

(Reporting by Jan Strupczewski in Brussels and the Warsaw bureau; Editing by Alastair Macdonald and Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-21

[AGareth2]

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

Germany still owed Poland money for the economic and human losses it suffered in World War Two.

Polexit?

[Sir Dude]

There you go Poland, experience the reality of being in the Brussels collective..."Do what we say or it's sanctions." And these countries wonder why the UK voted to leave plus they can all see the vengeful EU in it's true colours regarding how it is dealing with the UK's exit. Some countries have failed to realise that the price of entry and continued membership of that club is a full surrender in real terms of national sovereignty and meek acceptance of being told what to do by the liberal taskmaster overlords like Drunken Juncker. Haha...reality sucks huh?

[mercman24]

well done POLAND stand up to these unelected dictators, who force on you how to run your countries affairs. i hope more countries follow suit, and see the EU for what it realy is, just about a few individuals trying (and succeding) in making laws that countries must abide by, or elese

[the guest]

Part of signing up to the EU, is of course accepting its values. You can't have you cake, and eat it!

[Becker]

Well done EU in standing up to what's happening in Poland. And if the Poles don't like it they can up and leave and join the UK in forming an ex-EU club of pitiful nations who must abide by almost all of the EU rules but without having a say.

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, Becker said:

Well done EU in standing up to what's happening in Poland. And if the Poles don't like it they can up and leave and join the UK in forming an ex-EU club of pitiful nations who must abide by almost all of the EU rules but without having a say.

 

No. What Poland must do, is what the UK should've done, and that is remain a member and stand up for what it believes to be it's sovereign rights. Hungary can veto the sanctions, as can any other member country. 

 

The EC commission is right to flag this up if it feels the Charter has been or could be compromised. It's then for all the member countries to decide. Not the EC Commission and Germany to issue decrees.

 

Those that want and work for a socialist federal EU super state have not, and will not, put their vision to the test in a member wide vote. Because they think they know best. And those that want that vision see themselves as leading it.

 

Given a free hand, more and more control will be sucked away from the member states and their electorate. We see how Austria has been admonished for allowing a "far right" party to be part of a coalition - despite the fact that the electorate voted for them. How long before only EU/EC approved political parties and candidates are allowed to stand? 

 

Go Poland!

[RuamRudy]

19 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Given a free hand, more and more control will be sucked away from the member states and their electorate. We see how Austria has been admonished for allowing a "far right" party to be part of a coalition - despite the fact that the electorate voted for them. How long before only EU/EC approved political parties and candidates are allowed to stand? 

 

Go Poland!

Given a free hand, we are seeing the government attempting to take control of the judiciary and strengthen its grip on the media. Is that the sort of freedom you wish for the UK?

[citybiker]

Well done EU in standing up to what's happening in Poland. And if the Poles don't like it they can up and leave and join the UK in forming an ex-EU club of pitiful nations who must abide by almost all of the EU rules but without having a say.

Big difference being, Poland can’t afford to leave the EU and Brussels is fully aware of that fact, despite Poland being part of the V4.

https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

 

Ex-EU club?

Pitiful Nations?

 

Total nonsense, it’s the capacity & ability to make unrestricted trade global deals & bearing in mind the Brexit talks are ongoing & EU trade won’t cease due to the deficit.

 

 

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[Becker]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

Big difference being, Poland can’t afford to leave the EU and Brussels is fully aware of that fact, despite Poland being part of the V4.

https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

 

Ex-EU club?

Pitiful Nations?

 

Total nonsense, it’s the capacity & ability to make unrestricted trade global deals & bearing in mind the Brexit talks are ongoing & EU trade won’t cease due to the deficit.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, sure. Making "unrestricted" (whatever that means) trade deals is so much easier when your bargaining power is based on representing 60 million people compared to a block of 350 million people....

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

Big difference being, Poland can’t afford to leave the EU and Brussels is fully aware of that fact, despite Poland being part of the V4.

https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

 

Ex-EU club?

Pitiful Nations?

 

Total nonsense, it’s the capacity & ability to make unrestricted trade global deals & bearing in mind the Brexit talks are ongoing & EU trade won’t cease due to the deficit.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

13 minutes ago, Becker said:

Yes, sure. Making "unrestricted" (whatever that means) trade deals is so much easier when your bargaining power is based on representing 60 million people compared to a block of 350 million people....

 

Actually, it's 510 million people. Which only strengthens the point you were making. Without the UK it would be abou 445 million.

Edited December 21, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[citybiker]

Yes, sure. Making "unrestricted" (whatever that means) trade deals is so much easier when your bargaining power is based on representing 60 million people compared to a block of 350 million people....
 

EU trade is 45% (est)

So the remaining is 55% & I emphasise, EU trade won’t cease overnight.

Unrestricted means not having to comply solely to EU trade rules.


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[ilostmypassword]

Just now, citybiker said:

EU trade is 45% (est)

So the remaining is 55% & I emphasise, EU trade won’t cease overnight.

Unrestricted means not having to comply solely to EU trade rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And you  believe that the UK can on the whole get better terms than did the EU? You think nations that trade with the EU and its vastly bigger market are going to want to annoy the EU to favor the UK?

[thaibeachlovers]

Good on Poland for sticking their finger in the eye of the unelected bureaucrats of the EU abomination.

Hopefully the beginning of the end for that fiasco and their straight bananas.

[Becker]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good on Poland for sticking their finger in the eye of the unelected bureaucrats of the EU abomination.

Hopefully the beginning of the end for that fiasco and their straight bananas.

I guess that for one who supports the abomination in the WH the EU might seem like a fiasco. For those of us who base our opinions more on facts than slogans it's a resounding success.

[ilostmypassword]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good on Poland for sticking their finger in the eye of the unelected bureaucrats of the EU abomination.

Hopefully the beginning of the end for that fiasco and their straight bananas.

So, in your view, national sovereignty is sacred? And if they start jailing their political opponents? Of if they create concentration camps? The EU should still do nothing?

[RuamRudy]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good on Poland for sticking their finger in the eye of the unelected bureaucrats of the EU abomination.

Hopefully the beginning of the end for that fiasco and their straight bananas.

Why are you so happy to see Polish media curtailment and political interference in their judiciary?

[tomacht8]

All EU Member States are committed to ensuring the fundamental values of democracy in their sovereign states.
The three fundamental pillars are the separation of the three forces: Legislative, executive, judiciary.
How each state organizes its state structure within these core values does not matter to the EU as long as the basic principle of the separation of powers is respected.
If this separation of powers is no longer clear, a country is moving towards dictatorship.
And in Poland, the current government is trying to limit this separation of powers.
The effects can already be seen, e.g. with the illegal
Deforestation in Bialowieza nature reserve, where corrupt regional politicians filling up there private pockets.

[citybiker]

And you  believe that the UK can on the whole get better terms than did the EU? You think nations that trade with the EU and its vastly bigger market are going to want to annoy the EU to favor the UK?

 

I’ve never stated the U.K. would get better terms, simply allowed to trade ‘beyond’ the EU on its own T&C, vast difference.

 

Other Nations & it’s own businesses will do whatever is in its ‘own’ interests, it’s called competition.

 

As for Poland, it’ll surrender to the EU policy makers and accept the vote sanctions as it has little choice, even though Tusk previously admitted the EU’s immigration quota system (which the sanctions originate) was failed & it should be for individual MS to resolve, interesting that Hungary and other Countries already done that.

 

 

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[JAG]

Yes, sure. Making "unrestricted" (whatever that means) trade deals is so much easier when your bargaining power is based on representing 60 million people compared to a block of 350 million people....

 

Umh, I seem to recall that the recent EU trade deal between the EU (500 million) and Canada nearly foundered as a result of the unrelated demands of 3 1/4 million Walloons (French speaking Belgians).

 

Sent from my KENNY using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

There you go Poland, experience the reality of being in the Brussels collective..."Do what we say or it's sanctions." And these countries wonder why the UK voted to leave plus they can all see the vengeful EU in it's true colours regarding how it is dealing with the UK's exit. Some countries have failed to realise that the price of entry and continued membership of that club is a full surrender in real terms of national sovereignty and meek acceptance of being told what to do by the liberal taskmaster overlords like Drunken Juncker. Haha...reality sucks huh?

So you are quite happy with what Poland are doing? Do you actually know?

 

If they don't wish to comply with the standards of the EU club, no problem. Leave.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Why are you so happy to see Polish media curtailment and political interference in their judiciary?

It's not that I'm happy about it, and the Poles can change the government next election if they don't like it, but I despise the "straight banana" EU bureaucracy and anyone sticking a finger in their eye gets my support.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

 

 

If they don't wish to comply with the standards of the EU club, no problem. Leave.

I hope they do. Like I said, I hope it's the beginning of the end of the EU.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Given a free hand, we are seeing the government attempting to take control of the judiciary and strengthen its grip on the media. Is that the sort of freedom you wish for the UK?

You're wasting your time! This crowd have NO IDEA what is happening in Poland and why.

 

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/01/economist-explains-7

Edited December 21, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I hope they do. Like I said, I hope it's the beginning of the end of the EU.

Why? Please explain your thinking....

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Grouse said:

Why? Please explain your thinking....

It would take far too long to detail all the myriad things wrong with the failed experiment, but Greece and illegal immigration are just a couple of things that it should be dumped over.

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It would take far too long to detail all the myriad things wrong with the failed experiment, but Greece and illegal immigration are just a couple of things that it should be dumped over.

Can we agree, however, that bananas are one of the many myths that are propagated about the EU?

 

Is the EU really dictating the shape of your bananas?

"A Brussels ban on bendy bananas is one of the EU’s most persistent myths."

[Becker]

42 minutes ago, JAG said:

Umh, I seem to recall that the recent EU trade deal between the EU (500 million) and Canada nearly foundered as a result of the unrelated demands of 3 1/4 million Walloons (French speaking Belgians).

 

Sent from my KENNY using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

My point is that it's easier to negotiate a good deal if you're representing 500 rather than 60 million people. I would have thought that was obvious.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Becker

[Becker]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It would take far too long to detail all the myriad things wrong with the failed experiment, but Greece and illegal immigration are just a couple of things that it should be dumped over.

"It would take far too long.."

BTW, Greece's mess isn't a result of their EU membership it's entirely their own fault. And illegal immigration won't stop if the EU was dissolved tomorrow.

Is that really all you've got? How impressive.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Becker

[ilostmypassword]

14 minutes ago, Becker said:

"It would take far too long.."

BTW, Greece's mess isn't a result of their EU membership it's entirely their own fault. And illegal immigration won't stop if the EU was dissolved tomorrow.

Is that really all you've got? How impressive.

while, thaibeachlovers' post is ridiculous, because for one thing, greece is responsible for less than 1 percent of the EU's GDP, Greece is not entirely resposible. In fact, much more of the blame goes to Deutschbank and others who needed to be bailed out because of their foolish and irresposible lending. what has been called a bailout of Greece was actually a bailout of the lenders. In turn, this is a fault of the Eurozone, which doesn't allow for devaluation of currency which is the quickest and least painful way to recover from a financial disaster.  But the Eurozone is not the same thing as the EU and Brexiters seem unable to assimilate the fact that the UK is not part of the eurozone.,