What to do ?

[alex8912]

16 hours ago, NancyL said:

So, was the young girl's dancing pretty?  Did you enjoy the performance?  And did you not leave a tip?  Shame on you!

 

Take it up with the restaurant management if you think your dinner shouldn't be disturbed in this way.  They probably get a cut of the take.  Meanwhile, go with the flow. The dancing child is the victim in all this and it doesn't help for you to feel "put out". 

 

If you really wanted do something about the situation, you should have talked with the child and her handlers and given the info to the appropriate organization that deals with trafficked and abused children.  Ooops, you don't speak enough Thai, Burmese or whatever language to have been able to do this.  Well, maybe you could just contact the organization with your tip and give the a large cash donation, because the child and her "handlers" have probably moved on.

 

In other words, examine your soul and see how far you want to go.

Horrible confusing post!! Really stupid 

[Acemaker]

8 hours ago, steven100 said:

OP ...    it appears you haven't traveled very far in your lifetime.  This type of thing is still happening in many countries and prevalent in Asia.   You could have thrown in a few baht   !!

Nothing new here .....

Go to India, it will break your Heart, welcome to the third world.

[PoorSucker]

Here on Samui, you have selling roses or cha

12 hours ago, sanemax said:

The kids parents were probably close by and the kids were probably just earning a few Baht , which is better than sitting at home doing nothing .

   Why not make a small donation ?

This has been going for 20 years. 

The children comes as slaves from Cambodia. 

Local police get commissioned. 

I know cute Cambodian flower girl selling flowers, the the day she got 13, she was bought for 5000 baht. 

 

Please don't buy from the children, most of them are slaves. 

[PoorSucker]

13 hours ago, sanemax said:

The kids parents were probably close by and the kids were probably just earning a few Baht , which is better than sitting at home doing nothing .

   Why not make a small donation ?

Beacuse they are slaves from Cambodia, the owners take all and when the girls go 13 they go for sale. 

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

Beacuse they are slaves from Cambodia, the owners take all and when the girls go 13 they go for sale. 

How do you know where they come from ?

Did you see them as well and did you ask them where they came from, or is that just where you think that they may come from ?

[jacko45k]

What to do?

Do nothing!

Especially do not give any money if it disturbs you so much.

Sadly others will and that is what propagates street begging. They are often dropped off early in  the day and picked up later by someone who controls a multitude of them, and any donations support that person more than the kids.

If you donate, and many others do, you might find another couple of kids there in the future.

Edited December 30, 2017 by jacko45k

[tonray]

16 hours ago, Acemaker said:

Go to India, it will break your Heart, welcome to the third world.

It's everywhere. Even in Kuala Lumpur, Indian gangs put old grandmas out on the street with tiny emaciated babies and have them beg for coins. Scumbags should be hung.

[jimn]

23 hours ago, NancyL said:

The OP asked "what to do" and I was supplying an answer.

 

Try to determine if the child is being exploited, trafficked or was merely there with her family as a part of the "family act".  If it appears that the child is doing this activity against her will and no family member was close-by, then report the incident to the proper authorities.  If it's merely a case of a child performer with her family, then tip the child if the performance is good.

 

I fail to see how this is any different than the blind boy who sometimes plays the piano on weekend afternoons in the food court of the Kad Suan Kaew mall. He has a cup for tips near the piano, watched carefully by a woman who definitely seems to be his mother, sitting at a nearby table.  Sometimes Hubby and I eat our lunch in the food court and leave a tip for the boy.  Is this exploitation or recognition of the child's good performance? After all, a blind boy isn't going to be able to find a part-time job doing many other things.

No your post was a bit rude and condescending to the OP. Your judgemental comments were typical of your kind of person. A Farlang living in some remote part of Thailand thinking they know everything.

[PoorSucker]

13 hours ago, sanemax said:

How do you know where they come from ?

Did you see them as well and did you ask them where they came from, or is that just where you think that they may come from ?

Please, been here long time now. 

Don't buy flowers or take pictures with gibbons or loris for your tourist pleasure.

You are just promoting an illegal trade. 

 

Poor local or Burmese children sell cakes or food but only to locals. 

 

The flower businesses is regulated by the bad guys. 

[sanemax]

20 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Please, been here long time now. 

Don't buy flowers or take pictures with gibbons or loris for your tourist pleasure.

You are just promoting an illegal trade. 

Poor local or Burmese children sell cakes or food but only to locals. 

The flower businesses is regulated by the bad guys. 

Are they Burmese now ?

I thought that you said that they were Cambodian .

Do you know the girls in the OP or are you just making assumptions ?

If you know of the girls , and know where they come from and that they are being trafficked and sold, what have you done about it ?

   Have you informed the authorities or any NGO's ?

Once again : Do you know the girls in question or are you just speaking of what you probably think is happening ?

 

 

[PoorSucker]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Are they Burmese now ?

I thought that you said that they were Cambodian .

Do you know the girls in the OP or are you just making assumptions ?

If you know of the girls , and know where they come from and that they are being trafficked and sold, what have you done about it ?

   Have you informed the authorities or any NGO's ?

Once again : Do you know the girls in question or are you just speaking of what you probably think is happening ?

 

 

I said poor locals and Burmese sell food to locals, not tourists,the flower girls are not Thai or Burmese. 

Authorities?, you mean the guys that gets paid by the trade. 

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, PoorSucker said:

I said poor locals and Burmese sell food to locals, not tourists,the flower girls are not Thai or Burmese. 

Authorities?, you mean the guys that gets paid by the trade. 

 

Once again, do you know of these girls, or are you just posting what you think may be happening ?

[jimn]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Are they Burmese now ?

I thought that you said that they were Cambodian .

Do you know the girls in the OP or are you just making assumptions ?

If you know of the girls , and know where they come from and that they are being trafficked and sold, what have you done about it ?

   Have you informed the authorities or any NGO's ?

Once again : Do you know the girls in question or are you just speaking of what you probably think is happening ?

 

 

You are not NancyL Hubby are you by any chance?

[PoorSucker]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Once again, do you know of these girls, or are you just posting what you think may be happening ?

Yes, have talked to them. 

You seems to support the trade, watch this. 

https://pozible.com/project/195966

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Yes, have talked to them. 

You seems to support the trade, watch this. 

https://pozible.com/project/195966

That is a fund raiser for a movie .

They do tend to exaggerate things, in order to raise funds

What did you say to the girls, when you spoke to them ?

And how do you know that its the same girls as which the O.P. is referring too ?

[PoorSucker]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That is a fund raiser for a movie .

They do tend to exaggerate things, in order to raise funds

What did you say to the girls, when you spoke to them ?

And how do you know that its the same girls as which the O.P. is referring too ?

Why are you supporting this trade? 

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Why are you supporting this trade? 

In what way am I supporting this trade ?

[jak2002003]

On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:01 AM, NancyL said:

So, was the young girl's dancing pretty?  Did you enjoy the performance?  And did you not leave a tip?  Shame on you!

 

Take it up with the restaurant management if you think your dinner shouldn't be disturbed in this way.  They probably get a cut of the take.  Meanwhile, go with the flow. The dancing child is the victim in all this and it doesn't help for you to feel "put out". 

 

If you really wanted do something about the situation, you should have talked with the child and her handlers and given the info to the appropriate organization that deals with trafficked and abused children.  Ooops, you don't speak enough Thai, Burmese or whatever language to have been able to do this.  Well, maybe you could just contact the organization with your tip and give the a large cash donation, because the child and her "handlers" have probably moved on.

 

In other words, examine your soul and see how far you want to go.

Congratulations NancyL.... this has to be your most offensive, disgusting and nasty small minded post you have made so far, to someone who was clearly upset and concerned for young a child being exploited openly in public.

 

Great way to start you New Year. I have no idea why people like you even live in Thailand with attitudes like that, you have come across in your reply as a nasty and spiteful ex pat.... perhaps you had one too many gin and tonics with the x pat old folks social gossip club before you posted it.  Get over yourself.

 

 

[khunPer]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

Once again, do you know of these girls, or are you just posting what you think may be happening ?

It's common knowledge for long time stayers and expats at Koh Samui that the flower selling children are "imported" from Cambodia (re. my previous post). For years advertised and warmed about by a local Thai named Christie that started the original cabaret in Chaweng Beach. User PoorSucker is a long time resident and (extremely) well informed about local facts.

 

Please never buy flowers or souvenirs or... from children...

[Ulic]

 

Chances are the children were not Thai. Child flower sellers and other beggars that

you find in tourist areas are also not Thai. They are usually trafficked children from

Myanmar who have been sold to traffickers who promise to look after them, make

sure they get an education and promise to send additional money home to their families.

The handlers are usually nearby ready to whisk them away at the first sign of police.

You are making a mistake giving money. It is an organized scam.

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, khunPer said:

It's common knowledge for long time stayers and expats at Koh Samui that the flower selling children are "imported" from Cambodia (re. my previous post). For years advertised and warmed about by a local Thai named Christie that started the original cabaret in Chaweng Beach. User PoorSucker is a long time resident and (extremely) well informed about local facts.

 

Please never buy flowers or souvenirs or... from children...

OK . I m unaware of the situation in Ko Samui and I thought that the OP was referring to the Asiatique in Bangkok .

  Were I live in CM, we have a bunch of flower selling, begging , musical instrument family living in a shack down the end of my road , they are hill tribers and in Thailand legally .

   There seems to be about two grandmothers, three adult daughters and about ten kids under five , all involved in the family"business" .

   Some of the kids seem to attend the local school and they just earn a few Baht in the evening , you can work out how much they earn , by counting their flowers for sell and how much they charge for them, deducting the cost of the flowers, from their profit .

   They make survival money , not enough to pay off the mafia and also the mafia to pay off the police .

   Its hardly a lucrative  business and most criminals would not be concerned about getting their daily crumpled up 20 bahts from poverty stricken people .

  I did fell sorry for one of the flower selling girls , out late at night . I gave her 20 Baht and told her to keep the flowers .

  She insisted that I took them , explaining that she isnt allowed to go home, until she has sold all her flowers

[duanebigsby]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:25 PM, NancyL said:

The OP asked "what to do" and I was supplying an answer.

 

Try to determine if the child is being exploited, trafficked or was merely there with her family as a part of the "family act".  If it appears that the child is doing this activity against her will and no family member was close-by, then report the incident to the proper authorities.  If it's merely a case of a child performer with her family, then tip the child if the performance is good.

 

I fail to see how this is any different than the blind boy who sometimes plays the piano on weekend afternoons in the food court of the Kad Suan Kaew mall. He has a cup for tips near the piano, watched carefully by a woman who definitely seems to be his mother, sitting at a nearby table.  Sometimes Hubby and I eat our lunch in the food court and leave a tip for the boy.  Is this exploitation or recognition of the child's good performance? After all, a blind boy isn't going to be able to find a part-time job doing many other things.

A three year old by definition is being exploited. They're not mature enough to choose.

A blind boy, properly educated, can do many jobs but you seem fine relegating him to a life of begging.

While I understand in the 3rd world child labour is normal, in my mind it's wrong and exploitation.

Edited January 1, 2018 by duanebigsby
spelling

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

OK . I m unaware of the situation in Ko Samui and I thought that the OP was referring to the Asiatique in Bangkok .

  Were I live in CM, we have a bunch of flower selling, begging , musical instrument family living in a shack down the end of my road , they are hill tribers and in Thailand legally .

   There seems to be about two grandmothers, three adult daughters and about ten kids under five , all involved in the family"business" .

   Some of the kids seem to attend the local school and they just earn a few Baht in the evening , you can work out how much they earn , by counting their flowers for sell and how much they charge for them, deducting the cost of the flowers, from their profit .

   They make survival money , not enough to pay off the mafia and also the mafia to pay off the police .

   Its hardly a lucrative  business and most criminals would not be concerned about getting their daily crumpled up 20 bahts from poverty stricken people .

  I did fell sorry for one of the flower selling girls , out late at night . I gave her 20 Baht and told her to keep the flowers .

  She insisted that I took them , explaining that she isnt allowed to go home, until she has sold all her flowers

Thanks for your reply.

 

The last sentence »She insisted that I took them , explaining that she isnt allowed to go home, until she has sold all her flowers«, says a lot about how the children can be, or are used.

 

However, as I said in my original post, with some common sense in mind, and when it's not late in evenings or night, children performing for tips, or help selling something in a (kind of) business, are All right; because it's a different culture, and some families – like you, user "sanemax" mention about hill tribes – need a way to find cash for living, which may seem inappropriate viewed through Western World glasses, when small children are exploited. It's a difficult question of balance, and accepting a different culture, and at same time not accepting trafficked kids...

Edited January 1, 2018 by khunPer

[55Jay]

On 12/29/2017 at 10:21 PM, wood said:

Shouldn't she be home with her parents, is this still going on and allowed here ?  What to do ?

Well, you've been flamed sprayed enough already......   I would agree with you that 3 to 4 years old is a bit too young even for Thailand.  However I'm not surprised by your revelation as much as you seemed to be, so the impression you gave was one of a wide-eyed newbie.

 

I think that's what prompted some of the high handed responses.  I was also left trying to reconcile your OP with the suggestion you made later on, that you have been traveling Thailand for a long time.

 

Thailand is a rich, corrupt poor country.  Expect folks from the poorer provinces will be heading to Bangkok and other tourist/manufacturing zones for a long time to come.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

It's a difficult question of balance, and accepting a different culture, and at same time not accepting trafficked kids...

Although I do question whether those kids are being trafficked or not .

Why would a person go all the way to Cambodia, spend all that money and take a risk to get a mother and child here, when there are multitudes of Thais who would be available ?

Also, why would someone do that, for so little monetary reward ?

Why dont you see bargirls, with kids back in their village, bringing their kids into town and getting them to sell flowers ?

Reason being that theres little money to be made .

Why would a person go all the way to Cambodia, to get a child to work for them, when they would have the hassle and cost of supporting them ?

It just doesnt make semse

IMO, the flower sellers are just poor Thai families, just making a few Baht to survive.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 10:45 PM, wood said:

Although not ideal, I kind of understand that example tonray, mum's there, child's being looked after and protected by mum in a non tourist situation.

But to see a young child dancing exclusively in the path of tourists, to certainly make the tourist stop, look and donate, is surely a different agenda. No mum was in sight ?

Made to dance ?

LOL. When you've been in Thailand a bit longer you will understand that this is normal, along with leaving horribly crippled beggars in the sun all day to exploit them for a few baht.

The mother is always there, lurking just out of sight.

If people stopped giving them money the practice would stop, but there's always some tourist that gives out of misguided pity. Just don't give them anything.

The child exploitation occurs in all tourist resorts, even in Pattaya in front of all those fine upstanding farang police volunteers on Walking Street.

[thaibeachlovers]

50 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Well, you've been flamed sprayed enough already......   I would agree with you that 3 to 4 years old is a bit too young even for Thailand.  However I'm not surprised by your revelation as much as you seemed to be, so the impression you gave was one of a wide-eyed newbie.

 

I think that's what prompted some of the high handed responses.  I was also left trying to reconcile your OP with the suggestion you made later on, that you have been traveling Thailand for a long time.

 

Thailand is a rich, corrupt poor country.  Expect folks from the poorer provinces will be heading to Bangkok and other tourist/manufacturing zones for a long time to come.

The younger the greater the pity factor. I'd say I've seen younger than 3.

In London the beggars used to carry drugged babies with them to beg in the tube, and the cops did nothing about it.

[55Jay]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

The younger the greater the pity factor. I'd say I've seen younger than 3.

In London the beggars used to carry drugged babies with them to beg in the tube, and the cops did nothing about it.

Roger that. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

 when small children are exploited. It's a difficult question of balance, and accepting a different culture, and at same time not accepting trafficked kids...

Up to you, but IMO it's never acceptable to exploit children under any circumstances, but I have the quaint and obviously laughable opinion that people should only have children if they can support them.

Apparently it's normal to have loads of kids and then exploit them.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The younger the greater the pity factor. I'd say I've seen younger than 3.

In London the beggars used to carry drugged babies with them to beg in the tube, and the cops did nothing about it.

Those babies were probably trafficked from Romania by the Mafia, and the drugs were supplied by a Colombian cartel and the UK police received some protection money .

  The Mafia, the Colombian drug cartel and the Police split the 20 quid a day they earned through begging among themselves