What to do ?

[wood]

Xmas greetings to all....

Me and my wife took a rare trip to Asiatique yesterday, nice place if you get there just after 5pm and before the crowds...

We were both disturbed after dinner at about 7pm by the sight of a very young girl, I'd say 3 or 4 years old dancing in traditional costume to a young lad playing a Thai instrument. A number of tourists had gathered to watch.

They where right In the centre of the main thoroughfare and she was dancing with her hand waving at a collection box.

Shouldn't she be home with her parents, is this still going on and allowed here ?

What to do ?

[tonray]

School Kids are begging for baht all over Thailand, sometimes in full view of local police....don't get your hair up in a knot....the Thai way may not be your way. In my local street market there is a 5 year old who works everyday with her mom making Khanom Khrok, Mom pours the batter and she turns em and dishes em out to customers...the the way it is here.

[wood]

10 minutes ago, tonray said:

School Kids are begging for baht all over Thailand, sometimes in full view of local police....don't get your hair up in a knot....the Thai way may not be your way. In my local street market there is a 5 year old who works everyday with her mom making Khanom Khrok, Mom pours the batter and she turns em and dishes em out to customers...the the way it is here.

Although not ideal, I kind of understand that example tonray, mum's there, child's being looked after and protected by mum in a non tourist situation.

But to see a young child dancing exclusively in the path of tourists, to certainly make the tourist stop, look and donate, is surely a different agenda. No mum was in sight ?

Made to dance ?

[tonray]

11 minutes ago, wood said:

Although not ideal, I kind of understand that example tonray, mum's there, child's being looked after and protected by mum in a non tourist situation.

But to see a young child dancing exclusively in the path of tourists, to certainly make the tourist stop, look and donate, is surely a different agenda. No mum was in sight ?

Made to dance ?

My best guess is that the lad was her brother or cousin and mom is at home waiting to count the loot. Sad but likely true.

[NancyL]

So, was the young girl's dancing pretty?  Did you enjoy the performance?  And did you not leave a tip?  Shame on you!

 

Take it up with the restaurant management if you think your dinner shouldn't be disturbed in this way.  They probably get a cut of the take.  Meanwhile, go with the flow. The dancing child is the victim in all this and it doesn't help for you to feel "put out". 

 

If you really wanted do something about the situation, you should have talked with the child and her handlers and given the info to the appropriate organization that deals with trafficked and abused children.  Ooops, you don't speak enough Thai, Burmese or whatever language to have been able to do this.  Well, maybe you could just contact the organization with your tip and give the a large cash donation, because the child and her "handlers" have probably moved on.

 

In other words, examine your soul and see how far you want to go.

[cyberfarang]

This is Thailand, and not unusual to see this kind of thing here.

 

Do nothing, otherwise the Thais will just think you are an interfering Farlang and won`t take notice anyway.

[jerojero]

What's wrong with busking? Everyone gotta make a living!

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[swissie]

6 hours ago, NancyL said:

So, was the young girl's dancing pretty?  Did you enjoy the performance?  And did you not leave a tip?  Shame on you!

 

Take it up with the restaurant management if you think your dinner shouldn't be disturbed in this way.  They probably get a cut of the take.  Meanwhile, go with the flow. The dancing child is the victim in all this and it doesn't help for you to feel "put out". 

 

If you really wanted do something about the situation, you should have talked with the child and her handlers and given the info to the appropriate organization that deals with trafficked and abused children.  Ooops, you don't speak enough Thai, Burmese or whatever language to have been able to do this.  Well, maybe you could just contact the organization with your tip and give the a large cash donation, because the child and her "handlers" have probably moved on.

 

In other words, examine your soul and see how far you want to go.

Yes Nancy, you said it again.

Appearantly, OP is spending his first holiday in a 3rd world country. Him being disrupted while consuming his 1000 Bht meal.(2000 Bht with wife).
Him unaware of the fact, that outside of "western-countries", daily survival is the only thing on the agenda. Him also unaware of the fact that (worldwide) 800'000 people have to live on less than $ 2.- per day.

OP asks what to do? Easy: Immediately call police and have the undesirables removed while eating your 1000 Bht meal. Indicating to Police that such uncalled for disturbances are not to your liking and will cause you irregular bowel-movements, thus ruining your holidays.

- In western countries, something like a "curfew" for youngsters is not much enforced anymore (allowed to do all kinds of mischief).

In Thailand, the income of the underage family-member, pleasing tourists, may generate more income by dancing for tourists than her father, working on some construction site. The income of the dancing underage performer may well decide what and how often the Thai-family eats the next day.

Of course, quality tourists can not be bothered with such irritating issues. Heaven forbid.
Cheers. 

[wood]

Admin / mods, please close this topic before it takes the wrong turning.

The necessary steps have been taken.

Before you do....

 

Nancy - your response was offensive and loaded with assumptions.

You were not there - shame on you to load the scenario.

You only criticised the original post and offered no useful Information , again, shame on you.

My conscience is very clear, how about yours after your midnight Gin fuelled retort ? - again, shame on you.

PM me, I could put your odd skills to use.

 

Swissie - another bizarre attack on an innocent original post, you offered no useful advice and appear to endorse this type of tourism.

I have been coming here longer than you have lad - you also assume much in your post - all totally wrong, we are not all floating in the jetsom.

You have a very low opinion of your fellow TV posters, or is it that you are much better than them ?

How's that for an assumption...

 

[KhunMhee]

14 minutes ago, wood said:

Admin / mods, please close this topic before it takes the wrong turning.

The necessary steps have been taken.

Before you do....

 

Nancy - your response was offensive and loaded with assumptions.

You were not there - shame on you to load the scenario.

You only criticised the original post and offered no useful Information , again, shame on you.

My conscience is very clear, how about yours after your midnight Gin fuelled retort ? - again, shame on you.

PM me, I could put your odd skills to use.

 

Swissie - another bizarre attack on an innocent original post, you offered no useful advice and appear to endorse this type of tourism.

I have been coming here longer than you have lad - you also assume much in your post - all totally wrong, we are not all floating in the jetsom.

You have a very low opinion of your fellow TV posters, or is it that you are much better than them ?

How's that for an assumption...

 

And shame on you for not tipping..... Seriously its the holidays and maybe people are trying to make a few extra bucks. You're acting kinda uppity and / upset. If it bothers you I am sure a trip to see the BiB would sort out your problem. If you fear human trafficking there are other places you can go as well. 

[chicowoodduck]

I always reach into my bag and hand over my cash....easy peasy....???

[steven100]

OP ...    it appears you haven't traveled very far in your lifetime.  This type of thing is still happening in many countries and prevalent in Asia.   You could have thrown in a few baht   !!

Nothing new here .....

[whiteman]

Better 4 you not to go on holidays and stay locked up in your room in your tiny cheap rented apartment then no hassles happy new year 

[sanemax]

The kids parents were probably close by and the kids were probably just earning a few Baht , which is better than sitting at home doing nothing .

   Why not make a small donation ?

[1FinickyOne]

I would imagine the little girl felt that she was making an honest living as an entertainer, not a beggar... and her family was surely nearby, if you looked. Aren't there child actors in the West? 

 

I live in the countryside and the only time I see beggars is in the tourist areas. I bristle a bit when they are holding infants who end up sucking in too much car exhaust. 

[murraynz]

Busking is not begging,  same as kids selling things, is not begging, but it does concern me when i see very young children out very late at night doing these things..

sure, they have to help the family make a living, but im sure many of these kids are exploited,they would make more money in the "long term" by getting a better education...

its unfortunate, but thats why people in thailand, from a very early age, learn that money is eveything..

i found the child "sellers" in cambodia far more aggressive and offensive, than what i have ever seen in thailand.

they learn very early in life---how to "rip off"  tourists...

breeds criminal behaviour for later in life....

 

[shaurene]

It is the parents that make their kids go out and do this, most warn their kids to come back with money or they will smack them. 

[jimn]

2 hours ago, wood said:

Admin / mods, please close this topic before it takes the wrong turning.

The necessary steps have been taken.

Before you do....

 

Nancy - your response was offensive and loaded with assumptions.

You were not there - shame on you to load the scenario.

You only criticised the original post and offered no useful Information , again, shame on you.

My conscience is very clear, how about yours after your midnight Gin fuelled retort ? - again, shame on you.

PM me, I could put your odd skills to use.

 

Swissie - another bizarre attack on an innocent original post, you offered no useful advice and appear to endorse this type of tourism.

I have been coming here longer than you have lad - you also assume much in your post - all totally wrong, we are not all floating in the jetsom.

You have a very low opinion of your fellow TV posters, or is it that you are much better than them ?

How's that for an assumption...

 

Great post I couldnt put it better myself.

[djayz]

A lot of hard truths posted here. 

I feel the OP's post may have been misunderstood and he was probably more distraught that disturbed by the sight of children being left unattended. 

Honestly, as long as the kids are fed and don't look like they are being abused, then we should, I my opinion, just accept it. It's a harsh reality but, millions of people around the world don't live like "we do". Millions of children have to do this, and worse things, just to get a meal. Life isn't easy.

We should accept the things we can't change. 

[steven100]

27 minutes ago, shaurene said:

It is the parents that make their kids go out and do this, most warn their kids to come back with money or they will smack them. 

yes ...  if they come back with some notes then there's no problem ... if no notes then it's time for a flogging ..

[thrilled]

Anybody can rent A kid for 800-1000 baht A day from their Mom to do begging for you.

It’s been going on for years.

Edited December 30, 2017 by thrilled
Needed to put in the Thai baht

[Enoon]

 

What you saw is the "spoil" of the gold mine that is your/my comfortable/cheap lifestyle in Thailand.

 

You and I could not enjoy that lifestyle if the social system was not set up such that it produces the lack of opportunity (and the resultant inequality/poverty/relative low cost for us) that manufactures the necessity for them to do that. 

 

It is the real price of our lifestyle.

 

 

[tonray]

30 minutes ago, steven100 said:

yes ...  if they come back with some notes then there's no problem ... if no notes then it's time for a flogging ..

You seem to be  speaking about my ex !

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, wood said:

What to do ?

Concerned !  Yes I would be but how would you know that one of her family wasn't there.

Anyway it's Thai business none of mine.

[roundtheworld]

I was surprised by NancyLs post. It seems obvious to me that the OP wasn’t complaining about having his dinner disturbed but by the sight of a very young girl of 3 or 4 years old dancing for money. Not sure about how relevant Nancy’s reference to the dancing being pretty or not has got to do with the situation of very young children being used to busk or beg. Busking is fine for adults but I think children should be banned from being used in this purpose. A 3 year old child is not old enough to understand or agree to work in this fashion. Nancy suggests  talking to the child or her handlers. This is the last thing a tourist who doesn’t speak the local language should do and can prove to be dangerous. But by all means contact the relevant authorities or even post about it here. Nancy refers to his inability to speak in the local language. The OP hadn’t mentioned in his post whether he could speak Thai or Burmese or not. Most tourists can’t but many do try to learn but they are tonal languages and are difficult for westerners to master. Anyhow the OPs language skills are irrelevant. One doesn’t need to be a linguist to be upset at the sight of a child being used to make money. I sometimes give chocolate milk and maybe some fruit to children begging. Never money. The more money these vulnerable children receive on the street the more children will be forced to join them. 

[Sapporillo]

1 hour ago, roundtheworld said:

Never money. The more money these vulnerable children receive on the street the more children will be forced to join them. 

This. It's actually important to NOT give money to children, because if they make good money on the streets (begging or busking), they have no incentive to continue going to school. And better education is a way to get out of poverty, while begging and busking usually isn't. 

So, even if it seems heartless, you're doing them a favour by not giving them anything.

[sawadee1947]

Well give some money or have dinner later

 

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, roundtheworld said:

I was surprised by NancyLs post. It seems obvious to me that the OP wasn’t complaining about having his dinner disturbed but by the sight of a very young girl of 3 or 4 years old dancing for money. Not sure about how relevant Nancy’s reference to the dancing being pretty or not has got to do with the situation of very young children being used to busk or beg. Busking is fine for adults but I think children should be banned from being used in this purpose. A 3 year old child is not old enough to understand or agree to work in this fashion. Nancy suggests  talking to the child or her handlers. This is the last thing a tourist who doesn’t speak the local language should do and can prove to be dangerous. But by all means contact the relevant authorities or even post about it here. Nancy refers to his inability to speak in the local language. The OP hadn’t mentioned in his post whether he could speak Thai or Burmese or not. Most tourists can’t but many do try to learn but they are tonal languages and are difficult for westerners to master. Anyhow the OPs language skills are irrelevant. One doesn’t need to be a linguist to be upset at the sight of a child being used to make money. I sometimes give chocolate milk and maybe some fruit to children begging. Never money. The more money these vulnerable children receive on the street the more children will be forced to join them. 

The OP asked "what to do" and I was supplying an answer.

 

Try to determine if the child is being exploited, trafficked or was merely there with her family as a part of the "family act".  If it appears that the child is doing this activity against her will and no family member was close-by, then report the incident to the proper authorities.  If it's merely a case of a child performer with her family, then tip the child if the performance is good.

 

I fail to see how this is any different than the blind boy who sometimes plays the piano on weekend afternoons in the food court of the Kad Suan Kaew mall. He has a cup for tips near the piano, watched carefully by a woman who definitely seems to be his mother, sitting at a nearby table.  Sometimes Hubby and I eat our lunch in the food court and leave a tip for the boy.  Is this exploitation or recognition of the child's good performance? After all, a blind boy isn't going to be able to find a part-time job doing many other things.

[Wake Up]

14 hours ago, NancyL said:

So, was the young girl's dancing pretty?  Did you enjoy the performance?  And did you not leave a tip?  Shame on you!

 

Take it up with the restaurant management if you think your dinner shouldn't be disturbed in this way.  They probably get a cut of the take.  Meanwhile, go with the flow. The dancing child is the victim in all this and it doesn't help for you to feel "put out". 

 

If you really wanted do something about the situation, you should have talked with the child and her handlers and given the info to the appropriate organization that deals with trafficked and abused children.  Ooops, you don't speak enough Thai, Burmese or whatever language to have been able to do this.  Well, maybe you could just contact the organization with your tip and give the a large cash donation, because the child and her "handlers" have probably moved on.

 

In other words, examine your soul and see how far you want to go.

A little harsh on the OP I would say. The OP just asked a question and seems concerned. Not all of us can learn thai or Dutch or physics and that is ok. Not all of us need to walk around this disturbed world examining our souls or judging others.  Peace brother peace. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Wake Up

[khunPer]

A kid or kids doing a dance performance in the early evening hours to entertain is all right, and if one like the performance, then give a (little) tip in the box. Some are actually training hard to be excellent dancers or musicians, and they make little income for their continuing learning, by performing at markets or in restaurants.

 

It's a different story when kids are begging, or selling flowers and other items, late evening or night. They should be home sleeping, ready for school next day. However, often those kids are not of Thai origin, but "imported" from neighboring countries for the purpose of organized begging-business – which selling flowers comes under in this case – and the best you can do is to avoid the kids, and never buy their flowers (politely say no thanks); they'll continue as long as there is a market, and buying, or giving tips, just prolong the business. 

 

My information about flower kids are from well informed Thai source, advertising appeals to tourists for not buying stuff from kids or children. I often see them, the flower selling children, myself; I live in a tourist area. None of them are Thai, but they speak (at least some) Thai, many comes from Cambodia. There is an old "mother" selling red roses, and some few times also a "father" together with the kids, controlling 20+ children at night. Sometimes the kid will be running fast away from beach party or night life streets, that's when the police comes, and it occasionally happens that the police confiscate the flowers and gives them for free to tourists; police can even walk into beer bars and hand flowers to the foreign gusts. Once – perhaps more than once, but I only know about one time – all kids were "arrested" and deported. For a number of weeks, maybe a couple of month, there were no flower and souvenir kids at all in the tourist destination, but then it was full again, and some of the children are very well known, as they have been in that particular business longer than 10-years.