I was the victim of ATM fraud

[scubascuba3]

I put a low daily limit on my card so if it does happen they will struggle to take out much cash. With the Kasikorn app you can increase/decrease limit within seconds

[Ulic]

This issue is well documented in past postings on Thai Visa. Thai banks are reluctant

to refund money. Even when their ATM security video shows it is not you withdrawing the

money. Their point is you may have given your card and PIN to the person making the withdrawal.

Occasionally the fraud is wide scoped with many Thais reporting skimming theft. When the

police become involved the bank refunds peoples losses. To the best of my knowledge

foreign banks always refund your losses. I am sure you will be reimbursed. It is just a pain

in the rear. All the defensive measures have already been posted. From using ATM's at

bank branches in malls to two accounts, one with a card and limited funds, another account

with the bulk of your funds (no card) and just transfer money online from your main account

to your small account. The main thing is to be aware, show prudence in selecting which ATM's

to use, cover the keypad when punching in your PIN, set up email/SMS notification of when

withdrawals are made. Also never give your PIN to anyone unless you are fully prepared to gift

that money to them. (Wife/ GF)

[Meljames]

21 minutes ago, snowgard said:

But you must report it to the police. Otherwise the bank not gives you any information.

Depends on the bank. 

[Krataiboy]

These horror stories certainly whet the appetite for the coming cashless society when all our money is digital, owned by the banks, and we have no choice other than to make all our purchases and transfers electronically. 

 

Banks will save a fortune by going electronic, and governments will gain greater control of the money system and cut back on tax evasion. But as for the rest of us. . .  well, just look at the cock-up that occurred a few days back because Thailand's much-vaunted new  PromptPay system was unable to cope with the change of year.

 

 

 

 

[Thaifish]

To the OP if you manage to get a photo can you paste it on here.

[kalidescopemind]

It happened to me twice.  Report to Bank immediately, got refund.  Had to order new cards, no ATM for two weeks.  We had a friend in Pattaya who was a police Captain who investigated ATM fraud.  He asked for the transaction number from my bank where I last used the card, so he could find the exact time I last used it to view the security camera to possibly find the culprits.   I was about to leave by then, I didn't ask, and I'm 99.9% he would not have shared that information with me.   Its police business, not yours.  The perps can stand behind you with their phone.  I would go inside a bank if possible the next time I used an ATM in Thailand.

[Chivas]

4 hours ago, bkk_mike said:

Halifax is a terribly expensive bank to use here (assuming it's a debit card).

They charge a spread on the FX rate, and a foreign currency usage fee.

 

I have a Nationwide card that I used in Thailand simply because they used to have no foreign exchange fee. They do now, but they're still cheaper than Halifax.

I only used it twice ever it was only for back up. I had Revolut card (the best at the time) which i started using as well. As regards the spread you got the visa rate.

[Chivas]

4 hours ago, csabo said:

Setup instant sms alerts on your account. Notifies you of every login or atm use. 

thats all well and good but it doesnt stop it happening in the first place !

[Meljames]

22 minutes ago, Chivas said:

thats all well and good but it doesnt stop it happening in the first place !

Exactly. Nothing preventive about it. 

[steven100]

I remember this was discussed some eight months or more ago, now before going anywhere I wrap my cards in alfoil to block the clone signals and I always keep a one meter clearance from any other person. 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

So you didnt activate the sms system which inform you of account activity. Plus how did they get around the chip. They can clone the cards magnetic strip and steal your password but they cant duplicate your chip. Lesson one always draw inside a mall or bank. Lesson 2 activate the sms message system. It is 90% certain it was a foreign person from the number of previous cases. Many times Malay gangs that clone and then use the cloned cards close to the southern border. They quickly re-enter Malaysia after drawing the money. 

[Chivas]

9 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

So you didnt activate the sms system which inform you of account activity. Plus how did they get around the chip. They can clone the cards magnetic strip and steal your password but they cant duplicate your chip. Lesson one always draw inside a mall or bank. Lesson 2 activate the sms message system. It is 90% certain it was a foreign person from the number of previous cases. Many times Malay gangs that clone and then use the cloned cards close to the southern border. They quickly re-enter Malaysia after drawing the money. 

As above what point is the sms other than to tell you've just been rammed ! 

As a notification fair enough but prevents absolutly jack shight happening.....pointless to prevent fraud

[Russell17au]

On 01/01/2018 at 1:45 PM, sfokevin said:

You say they withdrew 30,000 twice?... I did not know that 30,000 at one time was possible?... I thought the ATM limit was 20,000 a time... Or do you have it set higher and if so who knows you have a higher limit of withdrawal?...

I used a Kasikorn Bank ATM in Ban Phet, Khon Kaen the other day and it showed on the screen before I entered the amount that there was a 30,000 baht limit from that ATM, I have not set my limit higher

[NancyL]

Yes, Bangkok Bank will share CCTV photos of the person making the unauthorized ATM withdrawal to the victim if a police report is presented to them.   In fact, normally the police want the victim to see the photos to ask the victim "do you know this woman/man?".  In my experience, they always do. 

[ujayujay]

Once my Card was skimmed in Switzerland. Somebody in Seoul, Southkorea, deducted 125 USD. I noticed this on my monthly bill and reported to my Bank. They payd back the Money and off course sent me a new ATM Card.

[MyFriend You]

On 1/1/2018 at 1:45 PM, sfokevin said:

You say they withdrew 30,000 twice?... I did not know that 30,000 at one time was possible?... I thought the ATM limit was 20,000 a time... Or do you have it set higher and if so who knows you have a higher limit of withdrawal?...

My Thai Card is set for 30,000 cash - 50,000 purchases ............... doubt I'll ever reach that limit............I suspect the Op knows, or at least suspects who did it if he is interested in getting copies of the pictures.  Wonder how the PIN was obained??  or does he have it written on the back of the card  

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by TunnelRat69

[55Jay]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

I remember this was discussed some eight months or more ago, now before going anywhere I wrap my cards in alfoil to block the clone signals and I always keep a one meter clearance from any other person. 

Do you have cards susceptible to the "cloning signals"?

[rasg]

7 or 8 years back I did a job in Manchester and at lunchtime popped out and bought a few items I needed using my business debit card. Later that night at home on London I went online to make a transfer to pay a bill and the balance was showing was about £30K but the available to spend balance was £0.00. It didn't feel or look right and I called the bank and they confirmed that the contents of the account were about to be transferred from the account.

 

I told them to stop it as it wasn't me but they went ahead any way explaining it was to try and catch the perps. They narrowed the location of transaction down to Liverpool (I'd never been to Manchester or Liverpool before) and two weeks later they reimbursed me. Somebody had presumably cloned the card in the camera shop in Manchester but I never did find out.

 

I learned a bit from it and will never hand my card to anybody in a shop, bar or restaurant and I always cover my pin. I have never written my passwords or pins down anywhere. And I have an RFID wallet. You can’t do much more unless you simply don't use cards. For transactions less than £30 I use Apple Pay.

[watcharacters]

6 hours ago, Meljames said:

Depends on the bank. 

 

 

Do you have any experience of awareness of any banks not requiring a police report.      I was told by KBank I needed a police report to heave a lost one replaced.

 

I may be a bit on the gun shy side with banks here now.

[watcharacters]

On 1/1/2018 at 3:19 PM, Chivas said:

You'll get absolutely nowhere buddy am afraid to say you 'll go around in circles until you realise it and walk away.

My previous post is the only way you and others wont get rammed

 

 

Hold on cowboy.    Are you saying it's not possible to see the photos  taken by the ATM camera at the time baht were fraudulently withdrawn from my account?

 

I hope that's not the case but as yet I don't have any more information due to the extended  holiday weekend around the world.

[Meljames]

12 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

Do you have any experience of awareness of any banks not requiring a police report.  

 

Yes, in Thailand and at my US bank.  Police report never came up. All funds were restored to my account.And like I mentioned earlier in the thread, the service at my Thai bank was very helpful and professional.  

 

You need to work directly with the bank that issued the card.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Meljames

[watcharacters]

10 hours ago, bkk_mike said:

Halifax is a terribly expensive bank to use here (assuming it's a debit card).

They charge a spread on the FX rate, and a foreign currency usage fee.

 

I have a Nationwide card that I used in Thailand simply because they used to have no foreign exchange fee. They do now, but they're still cheaper than Halifax.

 

 

 

I've already been reimbursed for the two ATM fees  (440 THB ) for the  fraudulent  withdrawals.     Kind of ironic.

[watcharacters]

8 minutes ago, Meljames said:

 

Yes, in Thailand and at my US bank.  Police report never came up. All funds were restored to my account.And like I mentioned earlier in the thread, the service at my Thai bank was very helpful and professional.  

 

You need to work directly with the bank that issued the card.

 

 

There is a fraud report in the makings.   Again  committing any crime during  a serious holiday  period is a positive thing  for a criminal.

 

I'm not sure if I made this clear or not.     I used   a TMB ATM nearly two years ago (1-8-16).    I have had  no other association or contact  with the bank since then  until this fraudulent withdrawal took place.    I'll call my  US bank tonight and hope I can reach the man who is  assigned my case.

[Meljames]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

I'll call my  US bank tonight and hope I can reach the man who is  assigned my case.

 

That's the important part, I doubt the Thai bank will be much help since it's not their card.

 

Good Luck with it.

[watcharacters]

25 minutes ago, Meljames said:

 

That's the important part, I doubt the Thai bank will be much help since it's not their card.

 

Good Luck with it.

 

 

 

Well  TMB certainly did go through the motions of  filling out a report on the matter.    I can only hope at this juncture they won't stonewall me.

 

I've been the victim of numerous crimes in my life and if there's a chance I can see a photo of the perpetrator I want to see it.     If nothing else, maybe I'll practice some voodoo with  it and poke needles in the eyes  of the  jerk. 

 

 

As a final last resort which I sure hope to avoid, I'm willing  to offer some tea money to the police for help in getting whatever photos from the bank  are available.   Actually I've yet to pay any corruption or bribery money yet in all the years I've lived here.    I do oppose doing so  but I'd look at it as being akin to hiring a lawyer.     I would forgo my  aversion to it  if a business (bank) just   blows me off.

 

 

Finally, I understand  what you mean about TMB's possible attitude but that's  a shame.      They don't know who I am and could not possibly know if I'll walk into the bank the next day and open an account of whatever amount.   

 

To an extent, it comes down to customer service.        If I could convey it to them  I wouldn't  have an issue with paying the bank's cost  to accomplish my photo and time stamp request, I'd do so.

 

 

Thanks for your good wishes..

Edited January 2, 2018 by watcharacters

[Acemaker]

On 12/31/2017 at 12:25 PM, saakura said:

Have you ever given out your ATM pin number to a trusted person such as a gf or wife ?

LMAO        

[HerbalEd]

On 12/31/2017 at 7:25 PM, saakura said:

Have you ever given out your ATM pin number to a trusted person such as a gf or wife ?

Or used it to pay for goods and services at a restaurant, shop, etc. -- or on the internet?

[jacko45k]

On 12/31/2017 at 11:24 PM, OJAS said:

Happened to me twice with separate accounts, firstly with Krung Thai and then with Kasikorn in 2009 - the amount involved was 20,000 THB on each occasion. This led to my decision not to have any cards with my present Bangkok Bank account. Each time I need cash I make a transfer to the wife's account and send her down to the ATM to obtain it for me.

I thought all Bangkok Bank ATM cards had a CHIP and were hence impervious to skimming.

I do restrict myself to using indoor locations and cover the keypad for PIN entry too.

[steven100]

13 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Do you have cards susceptible to the "cloning signals"?

All cards are susceptible to the cloning signals. Wrap alfoil three times around the card ... then stay a minimum distance of 1 meter from anyone especially near the ATM.

This blocks all chances of being cloned.

[55Jay]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

All cards are susceptible to the cloning signals. Wrap alfoil three times around the card ... then stay a minimum distance of 1 meter from anyone especially near the ATM.

This blocks all chances of being cloned.

LOL, nice dodge.

 

If your cards are not RFID, then wrapping in alfoil is as pointless as lathering yourself in SPF-50 sun screen lotion to protect against moon burn on an overcast, moonless night.

 

Maintaining 1m separation from others is, however, an excellent counter-measure against pick pocketing, accidental impregnation of random females, accusations of being a Sky Train pervert, and provides a small measure of deniability when passing gas..... unless there are thermal fart detectors installed, then you're busted.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by 55Jay