TM30's still causing issues ?

[LivinLOS]

I have to get a few things done that involve bureaucracy, last year or so having dropped back to visas not extensions I boycotted the whole TM30 system without issues. Now I need to get residence proofs, new licenses, pink ID, taxpayer number, etc etc.. 

Has this quietly been forgotten about, certainly seen less posting about it.. 

 

Given I am not hunting for an extension, but will need residence proof papers, likely to get fines ??  

[thaibeachlovers]

Unintended consequences, eh.

The people to ask, of course, are the ones at the office that will be doing your documentation. They will know if they want TM 30.

They wanted my TM 30 for extension last time, but don't want it for 90 days.

Do you live in your own place, or somewhere with a landlord? If the latter they should have done one for you and you might be able to get a photocopy of it from them- which is what I do.

If not.....................

If it were me I'd go on holiday a few days, staying somewhere that does TM 30, then on return do a new TM 30.

[Dipterocarp]

I own my own condo unit. Most individuals with business to conduct at CM immigration hit with 1600 baht fines from when they started with the TM30 enforcement. I can't tell you about 90 day reports, I don't do 90 day reports. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Dipterocarp

[Lacessit]

A grey area. I have not seen a clear definition of who is responsible for lodging a TM30 - it seems to be ping-ponged between tenants, landlords and condo management.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unintended consequences, eh.

The people to ask, of course, are the ones at the office that will be doing your documentation. They will know if they want TM 30.

They wanted my TM 30 for extension last time, but don't want it for 90 days.

Do you live in your own place, or somewhere with a landlord? If the latter they should have done one for you and you might be able to get a photocopy of it from them- which is what I do.

If not.....................

If it were me I'd go on holiday a few days, staying somewhere that does TM 30, then on return do a new TM 30.

No unintended consequences at all.. I just flew back in again so perfectly placed 'if' I need to do it, to do it.. However the idea of immigration the morning after a new years holiday gives me the shivers !!

Primary one I am concerned about is getting residence certs, I need 3. 

And no my landlord doesnt do it for me.. We both agreed on the 'easiest' way and see if it causes issues. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

No unintended consequences at all.. I just flew back in again so perfectly placed 'if' I need to do it, to do it.. However the idea of immigration the morning after a new years holiday gives me the shivers !!

Primary one I am concerned about is getting residence certs, I need 3. 

And no my landlord doesnt do it for me.. We both agreed on the 'easiest' way and see if it causes issues. 

Well, it is he that has to pay the fine, if there is one, not you, and it has to be done when you move in, not when you feel like doing it.

BTW, there is nothing hard about doing TM30. Doesn't even cost anything.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

A grey area. I have not seen a clear definition of who is responsible for lodging a TM30 - it seems to be ping-ponged between tenants, landlords and condo management.

There is NO grey area. Has to be done by the owner of the property, but obviously it would be done by condo or hotel management in that case. In NO situation is it the tenant's responsibility.

The only "grey" area is who pays the fine. Should be the owner or management, but often becomes the farang's problem.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is NO grey area. Has to be done by the owner of the property, but obviously it would be done by condo or hotel management in that case. In NO situation is it the tenant's responsibility.

The only "grey" area is who pays the fine. Should be the owner or management, but often becomes the farang's problem.

" There is NO grey area". " The only "grey" area is who pays the fine".  I must have been asleep during the logic class where the reconciliation of diametrically opposed statements was explained.

[laislica]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is NO grey area. Has to be done by the owner of the property, but obviously it would be done by condo or hotel management in that case. In NO situation is it the tenant's responsibility.

The only "grey" area is who pays the fine. Should be the owner or management, but often becomes the farang's problem.

" There is NO grey area". " The only "grey" area is who pays the fine".  I must have been asleep during the logic class where the reconciliation of diametrically opposed statements was explained.

 

Custom and practice teaches us this:

 

The real point about fines is:

At the end of the day, the foreigner without the TM30 gets the fine!

 

The responsibility for presenting the TM30 is the property owner, Landlord or finally, the foreigner if no one else did it.

 

My wife thought I was joking when I said she had to do a TM30 for me.

A trip to the local Imm office soon educated her and she arranged to do it by phone.....

Every office has different rules and there is no logic as far as I can see.

 

 

[LivinLOS]

My landlord is ace, and I would accept the fine on his behalf due to the great deal he gives me, and all the other stuff he does free of charge.. However as said above fact is the fine is levied at the western tenant when the western tenant tries to do thier extension or other immigration related issue. It may well be the landlords responsibility but if you dont have a TM28 or have made any attempt to lodge one, its a problem you have to solve.
 

Quote

 

Well, it is he that has to pay the fine, if there is one, not you, and it has to be done when you move in, not when you feel like doing it.

 

Legally its every time you leave the property to any other address for more than 24h. 

Having just flown back into Thailand, I am legally just fine to do a TM28/TM30 now, not 'when I feel like doing it'.. Not doing one in the past is not following the law, which I accept and ignore because I generally dont obey laws I dont agree with, here or elsewhere. 

[Mac98]

The CM-based owner of the Pattaya condo I am going to rent long term will be in Australia when I arrive. What do I do? Anyone?

[William C F Pierce]

2 hours ago, Mac98 said:

The CM-based owner of the Pattaya condo I am going to rent long term will be in Australia when I arrive. What do I do? Anyone?

Pray!

[davehowden]

7 hours ago, Mac98 said:

The CM-based owner of the Pattaya condo I am going to rent long term will be in Australia when I arrive. What do I do? Anyone?

Stay in a hotel for one night. Hotel does TM30 for you, get a copy from them for your passport, then move to your long term stay?

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by davehowden

[NancyL]

10 hours ago, Mac98 said:

The CM-based owner of the Pattaya condo I am going to rent long term will be in Australia when I arrive. What do I do? Anyone?

Are you working with a property management company?  If so, they should be able to help.  

[sfokevin]

^^^ Also does the condo building you rent in have an office with a Jurassic Person?... They usually file the paperwork on the condo owner/tenants behalf?...

[Lacessit]

When I fly into Bangkok, I stay overnight. Show my passport at the hotel. No TM 30's lodged in Bangkok, sheer volume would overwhelm the bureaucracy.

So when I fly into Chiang Mai the next day, am I still supposed to submit a TM30?

A not so hypothetical case. I fly into Chiang Mai and stay in a hotel for one night. I then move the next day to my long-term condo in Chiang Mai. Are both establishments required to submit a TM30 for me?

Methinks life would be far simpler for both myself and Immigration if they accepted the information on the arriving passenger card as to my place of residence in Thailand. Although that could influence the employment statistics unfavorably.

[Mac98]

5 hours ago, davehowden said:

Stay in a hotel for one night. Hotel does TM30 for you, get a copy from them for your passport, then move to your long term stay?

 

I think any move I do requires TM 30, so back to square one upon condo arrival. But thanks.

[davehowden]

Mac 98:

 

PM sent.

Edited January 3, 2018 by davehowden
update

[LivinLOS]

Just to add some resolution to this so future searches may provide info, even if it changes more than the weather. With all the usual caveats of 'as of today' 'as per the officer who spoke to me' etc etc.. 

 

To get a residence paper through the official channels, requires a TM30 being lodged. However the official channels takes 'a couple of months' hence is useless to me. 

 

To get the residence papers fast tracked by paying 500b per one, he doesnt care about the TM30, downstairs room 7, doesnt open until 9am. Ready tomorrow lunchtime. 

Interestingly the one stop shop (2nd floor upstairs) where the TM30s are done was quite willing to let me lodge my own TM30, with the owners ID card, tabien baan, etc copies. This is in direct contradiction to when they first re-introduced TM30s when they specifically refused to let me the tenant do one one behalf of my landlord, even tho my landlord lived outside of Thailand, provided me a letter saying so and that they authorized it, etc etc.. 

So... 1) you can currently get your own TM30 as a tenant.. 2) a legit residence paper takes many months.. 3) a '500b fee' expedited residence paper is next day and no need for TM30. 

[sfokevin]

I have a TM30 put in place a few years ago by the owner of the house I rent - The receipt of which is stapled in my passport.

 

All last year I travelled and stayed in many hotels thruout Thailand... Bangkok, Chiang Rai, Hua Hin, Koh Lipe and so on... some hotels were large such as the Hilton in Pattaya... I never left the country until Christmas when we did a cruise in Halong Bay... the day after I returned I went to Immigration on the second floor of Prom... It took less than 5 minute (lucky there was no one in line)... She looked me up in the computer and told me the street address of my house to confirm address... She scribbled and stamped something on my TM30 receipt in my passport... she gave everything to the officer in charge to approve and gave it back to me...

 

I would assume that one of the many Thai  hotels I stayed in during the year would have notified my stay to Immigration...  But that did not red flag me when I went to Prom after me international return...

 

My bet is they have absolutely no system to track a person bested on computer...

Edited January 3, 2018 by sfokevin

[Wandr]

Pattaya is different. I was never asked for one of these by immigration and I am pretty sure none of the owners filed one.

But they may have learned from Chiang Mai and decided to collect money

.

[sfokevin]

It would seem doable that you could sign a new lease with your house or condo owner with a current date and then have them go in and apply for the TM30 with no fine for late submission... 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, laislica said:

 

Custom and practice teaches us this:

 

The real point about fines is:

At the end of the day, the foreigner without the TM30 gets the fine!

 

The responsibility for presenting the TM30 is the property owner, Landlord or finally, the foreigner if no one else did it.

 

My wife thought I was joking when I said she had to do a TM30 for me.

A trip to the local Imm office soon educated her and she arranged to do it by phone.....

Every office has different rules and there is no logic as far as I can see.

 

 

It's never the RESPONSIBILITY of the tenant/ guest, but if the ones that SHOULD do it won't, the farang ends up doing it just to avoid having to deal with the future problems.

I did it for my wife as she was working. Didn't cost me anything but time and a bit of petrol.

[mikey88]

What is the  situation if the person has a long term lease but leaves the country for a month and comes back to the same residence on the same lease...

 

[narkeddiver]

2 hours ago, mikey88 said:

What is the  situation if the person has a long term lease but leaves the country for a month and comes back to the same residence on the same lease...

 

 

By the strict letter of the law the landlord should file a TM30 for you within 24 hours of your arrival at said residence after returning to the country

Edited January 11, 2018 by narkeddiver

[CMBob]

1 hour ago, mikey88 said:

What is the  situation if the person has a long term lease but leaves the country for a month and comes back to the same residence on the same lease...

 

Presuming an original TM30 has been filed for you for that address, then it's required that you update it when you return from outside of Thailand.  All they need is your passport (hopefully with the TM30 Receipt of Notice stapled in the back).  They'll enter a couple of things in their computer (I'm guessing it's mainly your return date and perhaps your new departure card number) along with the date of the updating.  They'll stamp your TM30 Receipt of Notice with a new date stamp (with or without a red circular stamp).  

As noted some time ago, a couple of officers have told me that doing the update within 4-5 days after returning (versus the statutory 24 hours) is acceptable....I've updated 2-4 days after returning to the country without any comment or problem.

Someone mentioned, I think, that they do not keep track of you and/or your address on their computer.  I disagree given when I have updated a couple of times they've mentioned my address and asked if that's still where I live (the answer on my part was correctly "yes"....and I presume they would have required a new original TM30 if I was returning to a different address).  

In country hotels, guesthouses, etc., take a copy of your passport photo page as they have to report the presence of foreigners within 24 hours.  They do it online and I believe Immigration can see those reports when handling the updating of someone's TM30 (and, so far, it seems they don't require any action or updating if one is just touring within Thailand). 

[Mark1066]

On 1/2/2018 at 6:34 PM, LivinLOS said:

My landlord is ace, and I would accept the fine on his behalf due to the great deal he gives me, and all the other stuff he does free of charge.. However as said above fact is the fine is levied at the western tenant when the western tenant tries to do thier extension or other immigration related issue. It may well be the landlords responsibility but if you dont have a TM28 or have made any attempt to lodge one, its a problem you have to solve.
 

Legally its every time you leave the property to any other address for more than 24h. 

Having just flown back into Thailand, I am legally just fine to do a TM28/TM30 now, not 'when I feel like doing it'.. Not doing one in the past is not following the law, which I accept and ignore because I generally dont obey laws I dont agree with, here or elsewhere. 

What if you leave the country and come back to the same address in Thailand, less than 24 hours after you left?

[cmsally]

On 1/3/2018 at 9:19 AM, sfokevin said:

^^^ Also does the condo building you rent in have an office with a Jurassic Person?... They usually file the paperwork on the condo owner/tenants behalf?...

It probably does have a "Jurassic person"

But unless my condo lingo is not up to scratch shouldn't that be "juristic" ?? 

[Mark1066]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

It probably does have a "Jurassic person"

But unless my condo lingo is not up to scratch shouldn't that be "juristic" ?? 

You've got to love auto-correct. We had a Cretaceous person at the last condo I stayed in.

[LivinLOS]

19 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

What if you leave the country and come back to the same address in Thailand, less than 24 hours after you left?

555 good question.. I have done daily visa runs by air back from Phuket..