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[snoop1130]

Two dive instructors charged over death of tourist off Phuket

Shela Riva

 

The incident took place off Phi phi Island on Sunday during Mr Shukla's very first attempt at scuba diving. Photo: Diego Delso

 

PHUKET:-- Police from Phi Phi Island have today confirmed that two dive instructors have been charged with negligence over the death of Indian tourist Alok Kumar Shukla, who drowned during his first ever scuba diving trip on Sunday (Dec 31).

 

“We have charged two of the diving instructors present when the incident occurred with negligence,” Lt Kanakorn Tamakhan of Phi Phi Island police told The Phuket News today (Jan 4).

 

“Mr Shukla had not taken off his diving weights, which weighed about 4 kilograms, when the incident took place. However, we can confirm that he had taken off his equipment,” he said.

 

Full Story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/two-dive-instructors-charged-over-death-of-tourist-off-phuket-65399.php#q3EEXdBAI8oaFAiI.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2018-1-4

[Coconut Kidd]

Last thing on, first thing off = weight belt.

[scubascuba3]

Its obvious to experienced divers but maybe not for beginners. You'd think as you sunk you'd take the belt off, maybe it got stuck or he panicked. Either way he should have been supervised

[stevenl]

28 minutes ago, Coconut Kidd said:

Last thing on, first thing off = weight belt.

Weight belt is not last thing on nor first thing off, if diving from a boat with ladder.

[Coconut Kidd]

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Weight belt is not last thing on nor first thing off, if diving from a boat with ladder.

Why? Please enlighten me.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Coconut Kidd said:

Why? Please enlighten me.

Because it is a pain to put on the belt after you've donned the BCD, plus fins after belt is also normally done since fins limit mobility, belt doesn't.

 

On return normally fins are removed to climb the ladder, after that BCD followed by belt.

[Coconut Kidd]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Because it is a pain to put on the belt after you've donned the BCD, plus fins after belt is also normally done since fins limit mobility, belt doesn't.

 

On return normally fins are removed to climb the ladder, after that BCD followed by belt.

Okay.....Convenience and comfort trump safety? Is this something new for the tourist diving industry?

 

Edit: The fin part makes sense in some cases, such as getting into a boat. But after that, drop the damn thing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Coconut Kidd

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Coconut Kidd said:

Okay.....Convenience and comfort trump safety? Is this something new for the tourist diving industry?

 

Edit: The fin part makes sense in some cases, such as getting into a boat. But after that, drop the damn thing.

 

 

 

 

 

Safety? This is the first case in millions of dives where this happens. 

 

Chances are so remote the risk is not worth considering. 

 

On top of that, people moving around with BCD and tanks still on would lead to many head and other body injuries.

[Coconut Kidd]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Safety? This is the first case in millions of dives where this happens. 

 

Chances are so remote the risk is not worth considering. 

 

On top of that, people moving around with BCD and tanks still on would lead to many head and other body injuries.

It's not a hard thing to do....drop the belt first.

 

Someone died, make a change in policy. Be a hero.

 

Not sure what your last sentence means. It takes 3 seconds to drop a belt, then remove the rest of your gear.

 

BTW, I'm not a newbie to the diving industry, I still stand by my OP, It's just smart policy.

 

Have a safe day.

 

 

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Coconut Kidd said:

It's not a hard thing to do....drop the belt first.

 

Someone died, make a change in policy. Be a hero.

 

Not sure what your last sentence means. It takes 3 seconds to drop a belt, then remove the rest of your gear.

 

BTW, I'm not a newbie to the diving industry, I still stand by my OP, It's just smart policy.

 

Have a safe day.

 

 

No idea if you're a newbie yes or no, but you sure sound like one.

[thaibutty]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Because it is a pain to put on the belt after you've donned the BCD, plus fins after belt is also normally done since fins limit mobility, belt doesn't.

 

On return normally fins are removed to climb the ladder, after that BCD followed by belt.

 

If you are diving from a boat with ladder you are only taking off BCD and weights once you are on the boat.

 

If diving from Dinghy and climbing into Dinghy the weight belt goes first, than BCD and fins remain on until inside the Dinghy.

Standard procedure all around the world

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, thaibutty said:

 

If you are diving from a boat with ladder you are only taking off BCD and weights once you are on the boat.

 

If diving from Dinghy and climbing into Dinghy the weight belt goes first, than BCD and fins remain on until inside the Dinghy.

Standard procedure all around the world

Yes, see my post#4.

[thaibutty]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, see my post#4.

I know.

 

Just wanted to clarify it. Really depends on the situation and which type of boat you're diving from

[arithai12]

Reading the original article, I really don't know what the dive instructors' specfic fault would be.

 

[12DrinkMore]

19 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Reading the original article, I really don't know what the dive instructors' specfic fault would be.

 

 

Negligence.

 

The Indian guy was an uncertified beginner. As long as the uncertified guy was still wearing dive equipment and in the vicinity of such equipment the instructor is responsible for his safety.

 

I am not sure where this duty of care begins for the instructor, but possibly he is responsible from the time he meets the customer to the time the customer safely departs. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by 12DrinkMore

[TMNH]

2 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Negligence.

 

The Indian guy was an uncertified beginner.

 

I am not sure where the duty of care begins on such a dive trip.

 

But as long as the uncertified guy was still wearing dive equipment and in the vicinity of such equipment the instructor is responsible for his safety.

 

 

 

[sebastion]

So it was thai or farang instructors?


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[TMNH]

Just now, TMNH said:

 

Sorry- forgot to quote the appropriate poster.  I agree- there are too many stories / accounts of tourists.. snorkelers drowning- much less beginning divers in this case, who are not properly trained to engage in certain activities. 

 

Bottom line? If I were a member of  the Tourism Council and/or the Embassy, I would be sure as s..t ensuring that visitors' safety is a concern and any negative press is BAD for Thailand.

[KKr]

I'd reckon the poor student, may he RIP, was not properly instructed.
And if he was, the DiveMaster / Dive Instructor were negligent.

Wonder how many newbie scuba tourists go on a trip like this?
one instructor on 10, 20 ?

Edited January 5, 2018 by KKr

[scubascuba3]

As it was his first dive it may have been one of those "Introduction to diving" dives, basically zero training and in at the deep end. IMO its too much too soon and i would always advise against doing it, instead do the basic course

[TMNH]

1 hour ago, sebastion said:

So it was thai or farang instructors?


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Does it really matter?

[TMNH]

49 minutes ago, KKr said:

I'd reckon the poor student, may he RIP, was not properly instructed.
And if he was, the DiveMaster / Dive Instructor were negligent.

Wonder how many newbie scuba tourists go on a trip like this?
one instructor on 10, 20 ?

Obviously, certain safety measures are lacking. Again..if I were the Thai embassy official, I would be asking many questions. Why you ask? Ummm.....negative publicity. So if you want tourists coming  to Thailand, then get ur s..t together. This is not rocket science.

[KKr]

5 minutes ago, TMNH said:

Obviously, certain safety measures are lacking. Again..if I were the Thai embassy official, I would be asking many questions. Why you ask? Ummm.....negative publicity. So if you want tourists coming  to Thailand, then get ur s..t together. This is not rocket science.

(Indian Embassy by the way)

incompetence can be lethal.
Next argument will be that the student did not pay attention in class (if any), which again comes back to the instructor who does not pay attention to his students in class, does not test the understanding of what was told, and apparently leaves students alone in the water. 

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, KKr said:

I'd reckon the poor student, may he RIP, was not properly instructed.
And if he was, the DiveMaster / Dive Instructor were negligent.

Wonder how many newbie scuba tourists go on a trip like this?
one instructor on 10, 20 ?

And what if the instructor was still in the water looking after other students?

A weight belt can be released with a single hand and is taught to every student.

Can't see how the instructors are to blame..........unless the authorities want scape-goats to appease the masses.....

[Ro54]

Lot's of unknown parameters here...so the discussion strays away a bit.(as always). There are instructors, and there are instructors.... not everybody are born to be one.. I'm only AOW, but have more dives than some instructors, and experienced both(in a lot of different countries). That said, not everybody are born to dive either..... 

But, on 90% of my dives, the weightbelt goes usually of before the rest of equipment, exception is some boatdives, where the fins are delivered before climbing the ladder(usually, they take your weights, too).

As long as 100 dives is the qualification limit for being certified(PADI), I guess there will be some fatalities, but, as mentioned, thankfully not often.

My condolences to all involved.

 

[12DrinkMore]

4 hours ago, KKr said:

Next argument will be that the student did not pay attention in class (if any), which again comes back to the instructor who does not pay attention to his students in class, does not test the understanding of what was told, and apparently leaves students alone in the water. 

 

The Indian guy was already back on the boat and had his BCD/tank removed.

 

For whatever reason he then fell overboard with his weight belt still on. Being Indian he probably could not swim very well. The Discover Diving Experience does not include instruction in removing the weight beld. The instructor is required to be no further than arm's length away at all times.

 

2 hours ago, Ro54 said:

usually, they take your weights, too

 

They will take your weights if you hand them up. The problem is that once divers start taking off weights in the water they are also much more likely to drop them.

 

Generally on a big boat with a ladder, divers climb up with all equipment except fins still in place. But allowances are always made for those not strong enough to climb up with their 20 kgs or so of quipment.

 

 

[hanssna]

2 hours ago, Ro54 said:

But, on 90% of my dives, the weightbelt goes usually of before the rest of equipment, exception is some boatdives, where the fins are delivered before climbing the ladder(usually, they take your weights, too).

Maybe on your divetrips, boatdives are an exception. Here in Thailand though, boatdives are standard everywhere. 

Usually, the weights are kept on, when climbing the boat ladder. 

Removing weights in water, is trained, but usually not done because of the weights (or ofcourse the whole weightbelt) being dropped, especially by beginners. 

[sebastion]

Does it really matter?

Yeah it does. The fact its secret suggests payments will sort it out.
Ive been told it was 2 farangs just wanted clarification.


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[12DrinkMore]

5 hours ago, KKr said:

I'd reckon the poor student, may he RIP, was not properly instructed.
And if he was, the DiveMaster / Dive Instructor were negligent.

Wonder how many newbie scuba tourists go on a trip like this?
one instructor on 10, 20 ?

 

The diver was back on the boat, had already removed his BCD, but then fell overboard with the weight belt still on.

 

The maximum ratio depends on the conditions. On a trip like this it would be 1 instructor for 2 students, unless there was a divemaster assisting.

 

 

[Dibbler]

As it was his first dive it may have been one of those "Introduction to diving" dives, basically zero training and in at the deep end. IMO its too much too soon and i would always advise against doing it, instead do the basic course

If it really was a dive before he had received formal training then that is illegal and the instructors should be banned from teaching. All the standard training e.g. PADI starts in the pool with buoyancy practice and rehearsing getting in and out of gear before any open water dive is attempted. But not clear from the article whether diver had previously received any pool instruction ?


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