Condo Rents Dropping?

[balo]

I always use AirBNB when I stay a weekend in BKK or CM. Illegal or not, never had any bad experience yet.

[newnative]

10 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

enforced at the base ,you try to get past the gates ,

     Every time I drive by The Base there are around 15 or 20 people milling about at the street entrance with suitcases waiting for the agents to show up to 'check them in'.  I'll believe they are enforcing the rule when they install fingerprint scanners at the elevator lobbies, gym, pool, etc. and only allow the fingerprints linked to a room to be changed every 30 days, with a stiff charge to make a change after the initial input.

[newnative]

24 minutes ago, balo said:

I always use AirBNB when I stay a weekend in BKK or CM. Illegal or not, never had any bad experience yet.

No, it's the poor residents who are having the bad experience!

[The manic]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

No, it's the poor residents who are having the bad experience!

When I used Air BnB in Pattaya In a condo i was quiet and responsible. But many 2 week holiday makers on Air BnB are noisy and drunk and playing loud music because they are having fun on holiday.  They dont realise that the permanent residents have a different agenda and timetable. All over tge world Air BnB is causing significant problems for residents.

[The manic]

On 13/01/2018 at 2:11 PM, wpcoe said:

Pratamnak is a large area, but just choosing a random point and checking their apps, a ride from Tesco Lotus South Pattaya to Pratamnak with Grab is B120 and with Uber is B95 to B115.  May sound relatively expensive when compared to baht buses, but for once a week shopping trips might be tolerable when laden with shopping bags?  Throw in the frequent promo discounts and the price is even more reasonable. (Right now Uber has a promo for B40 off of up to 10 rides. B55 to B75 from Tesco to Pratamnak seems like a good deal, no?)

 

And, yes, it could be tiresome to walk:  Thepprasit Road itself is almost 3km long.

Thanks for the feedback

[balo]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

No, it's the poor residents who are having the bad experience!

Maybe in some cases yes, but then I would think the condo management would warn the owners.  

 

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

     Every time I drive by The Base there are around 15 or 20 people milling about at the street entrance with suitcases waiting for the agents to show up to 'check them in'.  I'll believe they are enforcing the rule when they install fingerprint scanners at the elevator lobbies, gym, pool, etc. and only allow the fingerprints linked to a room to be changed every 30 days, with a stiff charge to make a change after the initial input.

good point on the finger print scanners, may reduce the problem if it is really is a problem other than the government not being paid tax.

 

Often wondered if one could actually register their condo unit as a hotel (guest room)?

 

IE, have to pay tax and register guest with immigration. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Basil B

[newnative]

4 hours ago, balo said:

Maybe in some cases yes, but then I would think the condo management would warn the owners.  

 

    You would think but in some cases the condo management is actively involved in assisting the illegal rentals and in other cases they don't want to get involved in a dispute between owners who want to do the illegal rentals and owners who oppose them.  And, you have developers who still have condos to sell leading buyers to believe that they can rent the rooms out daily and make such and such a return on investment.

[ThaiBob]

For those who don't know the history of airbnb, it started in San Francisco. A few years back the City passed an ordinance which regulated companies like airbnb. These companies lost their lawsuits and now they are regulated. Thailand (and Pattaya) eventually will understand the problems (and lost revenue) associated with these businesses. Here is how one city is dealing with the problem. 

 

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Airbnb-loses-thousands-of-hosts-in-SF-as-12496624.php?t=1be8549d57

[bert bloggs]

21 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

???  You have no clue what is happening.  I have lived there for 18 months.

 

Wrong ,i certainly do know whats happening there

[newnative]

3 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Wrong ,i certainly do know whats happening there

If they have gotten rid of the daily renters, how have they done it?  And, what are all those people doing milling about out at the street entrance with their suitcases?

[Kitmakmak]

6 hours ago, ThaiBob said:

For those who don't know the history of airbnb, it started in San Francisco. A few years back the City passed an ordinance which regulated companies like airbnb. These companies lost their lawsuits and now they are regulated. Thailand (and Pattaya) eventually will understand the problems (and lost revenue) associated with these businesses. Here is how one city is dealing with the problem. 

 

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Airbnb-loses-thousands-of-hosts-in-SF-as-12496624.php?t=1be8549d57

 

What are the problems? Nuisance for the permanent residents in a condo- this can certainly be a real problem if the condo atmosphere becomes a hotel atmosphere. But, this can and should be controlled by the condo management or condo owners' association. If the majority of owners don't want subleasing or short term rentals, they just need to pass a rule stating such. A substantial fine per day would end such practices. I would not expect Thai police or politicians to enforce anything.

 

But, the majority of the owners in some condos may actually prefer the income opportunities of subleasing and short term rentals. And they may have been sold the condo on the promise that they could generate rental income whenever they weren't staying there. If this is the case, then the minority owners can choose to live with it or move. Again, I wouldn't count on any laws being enforced by authorities.

 

Lost revenue? For who? Certainly not for the condo owners. The businesses who lose money to this disruptive technology are the hotel owners. They are usually the ones complaining to the politicians- as in the San Francisco example. This is a similar scenario between Uber and taxi companies. Of course the taxi companies don't like Uber. But consumers love Uber for providing better service at cheaper prices.

 

To be fair, Airbnb condo owners, in an unregulated environment, do not have the same restrictions and don't pay the same license or registration fees and taxes as hotels. The long term solution will be either more regulation, fees and taxes on Airbnb condo owners or less regulation and taxation of hotels.

 

I suspect the politicians will go with more regulation and taxes.... unless the voters overrule them.

 

There's no right or wrong with either side of this issue.

 

Condo owners can choose what they want. Politicians and consumers/voters can decide what they want.

 

 

 

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

If they have gotten rid of the daily renters, how have they done it?  And, what are all those people doing milling about out at the street entrance with their suitcases?

Yes.  Anyone who thinks they are not doing ST rentals is naive and has no clue.

The Base is the most popular condo for ST rentals in the city.

 

It is not just on Airbnb, but Booking.com, Agoda, and on just about every site listing Pattaya hotels.

The Base is there for ST rentals.

It is not always listed as The Base, sometimes other names are used.  

 

100's of ST rentals come in here every day.  I am here so I see them coming in and out.  Waiting 2 or 3 times  to catch one of the 3 elevators as they have all their families and bags with them.

 

Security:  Yes, they are making them wait at the front entrance now off 2nd road.  They use to let them walk thru to the lobby you can imagine what a mess that created.

 

Anyway now:  Someone walks up to the gate and shows security their booking papers.  There are signs around in 3 languages stating ST rentals are illegal.  Security in fact have been instructed to show the renters a piece of paper stating that ST rentals are illegal.  From this point however, it is business as usual.  The room owner or representative show up and give renters the keys.  Sometimes the security actually help facilitate this by calling the room rep. advising their customer is here.

The room owner or rep. show up and give renters the keys. Or sometimes they escort the renters thru the gate to the room.

Security does nothing.  I guess they figure they have done their job with the warnings. 

 

Several laws probably being broken.  Not only the ST rentals, but I am sure Immigration is not being contacted with the identity of the occupants.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by bkk6060

[Kitmakmak]

12 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I am sure Immigration is not being contacted with the identity of the occupants.

 

That's a new one on me. I've been coming here for 20+ years and never encountered that until last week when I renewed my tourist visa. I stay at my own house, but the house is in my wife's name. She had to pay a 1900 baht fine for not registering a foreigner staying in her home within 24 hours of arrival.

 

Agree, none of the airbnb hosts are going down to the immigration office to register each guest.

[newnative]

20 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes.  Anyone who thinks they are not doing ST rentals is naive and has no clue.

The Base is the most popular condo for ST rentals in the city.

 

It is not just on Airbnb, but Booking.com, Agoda, and on just about every site listing Pattaya hotels.

The Base is there for ST rentals.

It is not always listed as The Base, sometimes other names are used.  

 

100's of ST rentals come in here every day.  I am here so I see them coming in and out.  Waiting 2 or 3 times  to catch one of the 3 elevators as they have all their families and bags with them.

 

Security:  Yes, they are making them wait at the front entrance now off 2nd road.  They use to let them walk thru to the lobby you can imagine what a mess that created.

 

Anyway now:  Someone walks up to the gate and shows security their booking papers.  There are signs around in 3 languages stating ST rentals are illegal.  Security in fact have been instructed to show the renters a piece of paper stating that ST rentals are illegal.  From this point however, it is business as usual.  The room owner or representative show up and give renters the keys.  Sometimes the security actually help facilitate this by calling the room rep. advising their customer is here.

The room owner or rep. show up and give renters the keys. Or sometimes they escort the renters thru the gate to the room.

Security does nothing.  I guess they figure they have done their job with the warnings. 

 

Several laws probably being broken.  Not only the ST rentals, but I am sure Immigration is not being contacted with the identity of the occupants.

 

 

       Unfortunately, all true.  And, yes, a number of laws are being broken.   The sad thing is, the more short-term illegal rentals there are, the more turned off long-term renters become and some decide to move elsewhere.  When we owned at The Base we had an excellent long-term renter.  We have since learned that he moved out after his lease ran out--did not like living in a 'hotel'.

[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Several laws probably being broken.  Not only the ST rentals, but I am sure Immigration is not being contacted with the identity of the occupants.

The sign in my condo block says its illegal under 3 Acts, The hotel Act, only hotels can do ST rental, The Condominium Act, its conducting a business in residential property, and the Immigration Act, not reporting alien etc.

[newnative]

44 minutes ago, Kitmakmak said:

 

What are the problems? Nuisance for the permanent residents in a condo- this can certainly be a real problem if the condo atmosphere becomes a hotel atmosphere. But, this can and should be controlled by the condo management or condo owners' association. If the majority of owners don't want subleasing or short term rentals, they just need to pass a rule stating such. A substantial fine per day would end such practices. I would not expect Thai police or politicians to enforce anything.

 

But, the majority of the owners in some condos may actually prefer the income opportunities of subleasing and short term rentals. And they may have been sold the condo on the promise that they could generate rental income whenever they weren't staying there. If this is the case, then the minority owners can choose to live with it or move. Again, I wouldn't count on any laws being enforced by authorities.

 

Lost revenue? For who? Certainly not for the condo owners. The businesses who lose money to this disruptive technology are the hotel owners. They are usually the ones complaining to the politicians- as in the San Francisco example. This is a similar scenario between Uber and taxi companies. Of course the taxi companies don't like Uber. But consumers love Uber for providing better service at cheaper prices.

 

To be fair, Airbnb condo owners, in an unregulated environment, do not have the same restrictions and don't pay the same license or registration fees and taxes as hotels. The long term solution will be either more regulation, fees and taxes on Airbnb condo owners or less regulation and taxation of hotels.

 

I suspect the politicians will go with more regulation and taxes.... unless the voters overrule them.

 

There's no right or wrong with either side of this issue.

 

Condo owners can choose what they want. Politicians and consumers/voters can decide what they want.

 

 

 

    Actually, there is a right and wrong to the issue in Thailand, and likely elsewhere.  Even if  a majority of condo owners wanted to allow short term rentals, it's against the Thai Hotel Law.  Just as a condo association cannot pass a condo rule giving their residents permission to steal from 7-11, they also cannot pass a rule giving their residents permission to ignore the Thai Hotel law.  Many municipalities around the World also have laws regulating short-term rentals, as do most condo by-laws.   Of course, illegal rentals are still being done, here and elsewhere, but in many cases laws are being broken.

[pumpjack]

reason why i sold my brand new condo in CCR.  was only going to get about 16k a month...fk that !!

 

NEVER BUY A CONDO GUYS PLEASE  !!!!

[Peterw42]

I was in my Condo office the other day, paying a bill, and in comes an airBnB guest wanting new batteries for the TV remote and a couple of fresh towels.

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, pumpjack said:

reason why i sold my brand new condo in CCR.  was only going to get about 16k a month...fk that !!

 

NEVER BUY A CONDO GUYS PLEASE  !!!!

Isnt that average rent for a condo ? That would be 7-8% return on a 2 M Baht condo.

[JSixpack]

16 minutes ago, pumpjack said:

reason why i sold my brand new condo in CCR.  was only going to get about 16k a month...fk that !!

 

NEVER BUY A CONDO GUYS PLEASE  !!!!

 

Does that mean I have to sell mine and move out to Soi Buakhao now? Well, darn. But it's just so comfortable!

 

[bkk6060]

Just now, JSixpack said:

 

Does that mean I have to sell mine and move out to Soi Buakhao now? Well, darn. But it's just so comfortable!

 

Will look for you.

But please, wear a Heineken tank.  Much classier then Singha....

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic posts and replies have been removed, topic is about:   Condo Rents Dropping?  Not about prostitution

[The manic]

7 hours ago, Kitmakmak said:

That's a new one on me. I've been coming here for 20+ years and never encountered that until last week when I renewed my tourist visa. I stay at my own house, but the house is in my wife's name. She had to pay a 1900 baht fine for not registering a foreigner staying in her home within 24 hours of arrival.

 

Agree, none of the airbnb hosts are going down to the immigration office to register each guest.

So it the duty of the condo manager/house manager to inform The IO. 

[The manic]

7 hours ago, pumpjack said:

reason why i sold my brand new condo in CCR.  was only going to get about 16k a month...fk that !!

 

NEVER BUY A CONDO GUYS PLEASE  !!!!

That's about right depending what you paid for it. Try living in it!

Edited January 16, 2018 by The manic

[tropo]

11 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

11 hours ago, pumpjack said:

reason why i sold my brand new condo in CCR.  was only going to get about 16k a month...fk that !!

 

NEVER BUY A CONDO GUYS PLEASE  !!!!

Isnt that average rent for a condo ? That would be 7-8% return on a 2 M Baht condo.

I don't think you can rent much condo (space) for 16k a month. OK for short-term accommodation perhaps, but not long term.

[tropo]

12 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

12 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Several laws probably being broken.  Not only the ST rentals, but I am sure Immigration is not being contacted with the identity of the occupants.

The sign in my condo block says its illegal under 3 Acts, The hotel Act, only hotels can do ST rental, The Condominium Act, its conducting a business in residential property, and the Immigration Act, not reporting alien etc.

It's a good law. Who wants different tourists coming and going every week in their building?

[scubascuba3]

I don't think you can rent much condo (space) for 16k a month. OK for short-term accommodation perhaps, but not long term.

Plenty around, one i looked at last year 12k a month 66 m2 1 bed, central Pattaya. Need to do leg work to find them

[zoza]

On ‎16‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 2:51 AM, balo said:

Maybe in some cases yes, but then I would think the condo management would warn the owners.  

 

actually the condo management are the owners in quite a few cases in VT1

[tropo]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

11 hours ago, tropo said:

I don't think you can rent much condo (space) for 16k a month. OK for short-term accommodation perhaps, but not long term.

Plenty around, one i looked at last year 12k a month 66 m2 1 bed, central Pattaya. Need to do leg work to find them

That's what I meant. Not much space for long term. Then what about the quality of furnishings?