Selling from a lease

[greenman2841]

Hi I need some help. I have a house in Ban Chang Rayong I have it on a lease basis 30+30+30 years I also have the yellow and blue books in my name. I would like to sell up due to health issues.

Question: is this possible being a lease if not is there anything I can do

Thanks

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

Depends upon the contents of the lease......should have a clause stating whether or not the lease is transferable , my guess is that it does since it is of the 30-30-30 variety, which in effect is really only 30, since the maximum legal lease in Thailand is 30 years.   These 30+30+30 are not enforceable over the first 30 years, unless a new lease is issued when the first 30 years expires

 

See a lawyer 

[meinphuket]

At this time the lease can not be sold or reassigned without the owner's agreement, Only the first 30 years are recognized under Thai law. There is a law in the making seeking to change the regulations governing reassignment, transfer of the lease, as well as being able to leave it to an heir for the remaining lease period. This law should be out very soon now"..

[seancbk]

13 minutes ago, meinphuket said:

At this time the lease can not be sold or reassigned without the owner's agreement, Only the first 30 years are recognized under Thai law. There is a law in the making seeking to change the regulations governing reassignment, transfer of the lease, as well as being able to leave it to an heir for the remaining lease period. This law should be out very soon now"..

 

I think the OP is the owner.   He has leased his house to someone else.   He now wants to sell the house.

I don't see a problem, other than finding a buyer who doesn't want to buy it to live in it.

 

[Cyclone88]

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

 

I think the OP is the owner.   He has leased his house to someone else.   He now wants to sell the house.

I don't see a problem, other than finding a buyer who doesn't want to buy it to live in it.

 

the yellow and blue book does not mean ownership. it is just the house master.

[MyFriend You]

See a lawyer     -   good advice, but I doubt he has the Blue Book in his name, unless he is Thai, thats why they issue a Yellow Book for Farangs from what I understand - I have a Yellow Book in my name, the Blue Book has the previous Thai owners names in it and it has been cancelled.  I do have the Large Yellow Card with my name as the owner, also translated in English (maybe thats what he means by 'yellow book'

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by TunnelRat69

[khunPer]

OP, It's little unclear if you own a house on leased land; or you lease a property including a house.

 

Anyway, your lease cannot legally be any longer than one term of 30-years. For legally transferring the remaining period of the lease to another – i.e. sell the house with the remaining lease period for the land under the house; or sell the remaining period of the property lease – the lease agreement shall include a right to sub-lease to third party.

 

Blue House Book is for the house and it's Thai residents, but does not indicate any ownership. Yellow House Book is issued to alien resident(s) under the Blue House Book. However, a foreigner can have status as "Master of Household", which mean that no (Thai) names can be included in the Blue House Book, without the approval from the Master of Household.

 

You can probably find answer to your questions at this web-page, and the links to further informative sub-pages:
Thai Real Estate Lease Leasehold and Rent laws (Samui For Sale)...

 

Quote

Leasehold and re-sale of a lease agreement

Lease of Immovable property

THE RIGHT TO SUB-LEASE AND ASSIGNMENT OF A PROPERTY LEASE

Lease in the Civil and Commercial Code is placed under the rubric contracts and as a hire of property primarily a personal contract right of the lessee (termination upon death of the lessee) with aspects of a real property right. This is the reason why under Thai law the right to sub-rent or assignment of a residential lease agreement is only allowed if the lease agreement contains the right of the lessee to transfer his lease rights or transfer possession of the leased property to a third person (section 544 ). The right of the lessee to sublet or assignment of his lease must be included in the lease agreement or the lessee is under Thai laws not allowed to sublet or assign the lease to another person.

 Read more: Sub-rent, sub-let, assignment of a residential lease

 

Quote

Lease contract and lease term

THE TERM OF THE LEASE AGREEMENT CANNOT EXCEED 30 YEARS

The term of a real estate lease in Thailand may be fixed or periodic. The maximum lease term in Thailand is 30 years (section 540). Any lease of immovable property for a longer period than 30 years in Thailand may only be made by renewal of the lease contract upon its expiration. Based on supreme court judgment it is possible to say that a valid and enforceable renewal can only be made within a period of 3 years prior to the expiration of the first lease term (not 30 years prior to expiration). If for example the lessor and lessee have executed 2 or more consecutive 30-year lease agreements it shall by law be deemed as 1 lease and reduced to 30 years.

 Read more: Real Estate lease term and extensions

 

Quote

Options in a lease contract

TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP DOES NOT BREAK RENT BUT BREAKS CONTRACT RIGHTS IN THE LEASE AGREEMENT

Contract rights vs real lease rights

The content of a registered lease agreement in Thailand can be divided into rights given under hire and property laws and rights based on general contract law and the freedom of contract between the parties. The practical importance of the two relates to the future enforceability of contract promises and obligations in a contract, especially in case ownership of the property is transferred during the term of the lease. Real lease rights in a lease agreement are enforceable against third parties and once given the promisor can't change his mind or take it back should the circumstances change. A simple promise by the lessor to do something in future (renew a lease in 30 years time) can be revoked or may turn out unenforceable under Thai contract law.

 Read more: Contract options in a lease agreement

Kindly recommend that you consult a lawyer for clarification of you actual lease agreement...

[Tofer]

14 hours ago, khunPer said:

OP, It's little unclear if you own a house on leased land; or you lease a property including a house.

 

Anyway, your lease cannot legally be any longer than one term of 30-years. For legally transferring the remaining period of the lease to another – i.e. sell the house with the remaining lease period for the land under the house; or sell the remaining period of the property lease – the lease agreement shall include a right to sub-lease to third party.

 

Blue House Book is for the house and it's Thai residents, but does not indicate any ownership. Yellow House Book is issued to alien resident(s) under the Blue House Book. However, a foreigner can have status as "Master of Household", which mean that no (Thai) names can be included in the Blue House Book, without the approval from the Master of Household.

 

You can probably find answer to your questions at this web-page, and the links to further informative sub-pages:
Thai Real Estate Lease Leasehold and Rent laws (Samui For Sale)...

 

 

 

Kindly recommend that you consult a lawyer for clarification of you actual lease agreement...

Does the referenced clause regarding 'the lease term' imply that a renewable lease contract is legal by virtue of the wording 'a valid and enforceable renewal' such that the original 30 year lease agreement can  include terms to guarantee a further 30 year renewal upon (within 3 years of) expiration of the original lease agreement?

 

Sorry, just re-read the last reference to contract rights, and it's clear a renewal cannot be 'promised' / guaranteed.

 

Too early for my brain to wake up properly!

Edited January 14, 2018 by Tofer
Revised

[sometimewoodworker]

There is case law demonstrating that 30 year leases are legal.

However 30+30+30 leases are not.

 

It is subject to debate and lawsuits that a lease 30+30+30  is an attempt to evade the law and is totally void, and so not even the first 30 years is valid or enforceable. Also that any land office where that lease has been registered has also broken the law so the land office registration is also void.

 

it is certainly recommended that anyone who has a 30 year lease that suggests a subsequent term is a right, or guaranteed, should get legal advice.

[Khun Jean]

Never understood the need for 30+30+30. If you paid for example 2.000.000 for the first 30 years expect to pay 8.000.000 for the second term and about 20.000.000 for the third extension.

And as it is not registered it is only enforceable (if at all) to the original owner. If the owner died, kids inherited it then those extra 30+30 do not transfer to them.

Only thing the owner has to do when the first term is finished is to transfer it to the kids, sell it or any of the other options available for the owner.

Just accept that it is 30 years and be done with it.

 

[Ginkas]

16 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There is case law demonstrating that 30 year leases are legal.

However 30+30+30 leases are not.

 

It is subject to debate and lawsuits that a lease 30+30+30  is an attempt to evade the law and is totally void, and so not even the first 30 years is valid or enforceable. Also that any land office where that lease has been registered has also broken the law so the land office registration is also void.

 

it is certainly recommended that anyone who has a 30 year lease that suggests a subsequent term is a right, or guaranteed, should get legal advice.

Yes, I remember a lot of discussion on here a year or two ago.

A judge declared a 30+30+30 lease void and his precise meaning was debated with lawyers;

the outcome seemed to be that the entire lease was voided, including the first 30 years.

[Ginkas]

By the way, why are there two threads running on this?