Facebook: Thai or Swedish law?

[chemist]

Sweden has ridiculous laws when it comes to "hate speech". You can have a joke about Arabs on your Facebook page, and off to court it is. Now, I am from Sweden but live in Thailand. When I sit here, in Thailand, writing stuff on my Facebook page (which mostly has Swedish followers), does Thai or Swedish law apply when it comes to "hate speech" for example? The "crime" has been committed in Thailand, but the whole thing can be seen on a page mostly intended for a Swedish audience.

Furthermore, my FB material will be stored on a Thai server. Is it then my problem if a Swedish person downloads this material to Sweden by opening his/her FB page?

 

As far as I know Thailand doesn't have any hate speech laws (yes, you know the exception); in fact, one of the main reasons for me when it comes to living in Thailand is the absence of the political correctness that has poisoned Europe and America. 

 

Any lawyers out there?

 

Cheers

 

Chemist

[cyberfarang]

You are wrong, completely wrong.

 

Thailand has strict defamation laws and even criticizing someone or a company on the social media that could make them lose face or damage a reputation, even if true, could land you in a whole lot of trouble.

 

Making remarks about people or events happening other countries is no problem in Thailand, but if referring to Thais or Thailand, even Thais living abroad, you`d better watch out and hope that no Thais viewing your facebook can speak and read Swedish. 

[oldhippy]

Simple solution: refrain from hate speech.

Naturligtvis.

 

[chemist]

13 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

You are wrong, completely wrong.

 

Thailand has strict defamation laws and even criticizing someone or a company on the social media that could make them lose face or damage a reputation, even if true, could land you in a whole lot of trouble.

 

Making remarks about people or events happening other countries is no problem in Thailand, but if referring to Thais or Thailand, even Thais living abroad, you`d better watch out and hope that no Thais viewing your facebook can speak and read Swedish. 

Interesting. I didn't know that. So you mean there are government laws (no civil court stuff) preventing me from writing that my Thai neighbor is an <deleted>?

 

Ha ha, What do you know. A word censored on TV when we're talking freedom of speech. I accept it, though.

Edited January 15, 2018 by chemist
Comment

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, chemist said:

Interesting. I didn't know that. So you mean there are government laws (no civil court stuff) preventing me from writing that my Thai neighbor is an <deleted>?

555

excellent trolling

 

[chemist]

The main question, though, is if I can be on trial in Sweden for stuff I write here. Does this vary between different Western countries? 

[mstevens]

I'm not a lawyer but am fascinated by this issue of law and closely follow stories about freedom of speech online.  From everything that I have read, I'd say that wither the Thais or the Swedes could pursue charges or legal action against you if they felt any posts you'd made warranted it.  The Thais could argue that a post was made in their jurisdiction and the Swedes could argue that it was published in their jurisdiction and most of your readers / audience was in their jurisdiction.  With this in mind, it might be prudent to think carefully before saying certain things from a Facebook page which identifies you.  I'm all for freedom of speech, but I'm also all for self-preservation.  Crazy that a place like Sweden limits freedom of speech - I'd always thought Scandinavia had some of the world's most open press and a strong belief in the concept of freedom of speech.

[oldhippy]

6 hours ago, mstevens said:

I'm not a lawyer but am fascinated by this issue of law and closely follow stories about freedom of speech online.  From everything that I have read, I'd say that wither the Thais or the Swedes could pursue charges or legal action against you if they felt any posts you'd made warranted it.  The Thais could argue that a post was made in their jurisdiction and the Swedes could argue that it was published in their jurisdiction and most of your readers / audience was in their jurisdiction.  With this in mind, it might be prudent to think carefully before saying certain things from a Facebook page which identifies you.  I'm all for freedom of speech, but I'm also all for self-preservation.  Crazy that a place like Sweden limits freedom of speech - I'd always thought Scandinavia had some of the world's most open press and a strong belief in the concept of freedom of speech.

So when you walk into a bar, you freely exercise your right to freedom of speech and you insult (hate speech) anyone whose skin colour you don't like?

Good luck with that!

 

Likewise, you would have no problem with someone that walks up to you in public and for no reason calls you a <whatever>?

 

In stead of discussing legal technicalities, would it not make more sense to wonder why these Swedish laws on hate speech exist?

Live and let live and all that....

 

[jackdd]

It doesn't matter in which country you are when you post it, you should always be careful what you post, especially when using your real name.

Let's say a person who has never been in Thailand posts bad things about the King here while being in their home country. Maybe somebody sees it and reports it to the police. It could very well be now that if the person ever comes to Thailand they will be arrested at the airport and taken to court.

Or let's say you glorify Hitler on your page, if somebody reports you to the police in Germany and there is a State Attorney that cares about it, it could happen that you get taken to court if you ever set a foot in Germany.

[tgeezer]

Simple solution: refrain from hate speech.
Naturligtvis.
 

If only that were possible, hate speech is whatever offends the listener.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[oldhippy]

8 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

If only that were possible, hate speech is whatever offends the listener.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I disagree.

Of course there are cases that are not clear and simple - that is why we have courtrooms and lawyers.

But in 90% of cases, it is clear: is it hate speech or is it not.

 

 

[chemist]

11 hours ago, oldhippy said:

So when you walk into a bar, you freely exercise your right to freedom of speech and you insult (hate speech) anyone whose skin colour you don't like?

Good luck with that!

 

Likewise, you would have no problem with someone that walks up to you in public and for no reason calls you a <whatever>?

 

In stead of discussing legal technicalities, would it not make more sense to wonder why these Swedish laws on hate speech exist?

Live and let live and all that....

 

Those are the words of a subservient Swede, brainwashed since birth. I for one take the right to say ANYTHING to ANYBODY even if that person might be "offended". Look at the American legislation. You can say or write anything as long as your words don't put anyone else in imminent danger. That's the way it should be in Sweden too.

 

mstevens: I'm sorry to make you disappointed, but Sweden certainly doesn't have the world's most allowing freedom of speech laws. On the contrary, you have to watch out anytime anywhere. Someone might take you to the police for "insulting" or "offending" somebody.

 

Example: You're sitting on the bus in Sweden with some friends, chatting about how wrong you think the very liberal immigration laws in Sweden are. You point out that, statistically, people from North Africa or the Middle East are much more likely to commit crimes (which is true; can I write this on ThaiVisa?). THAT can be enough if another passenger feels "offended" or another Swedish passenger simply feels you are "offending" these immigrants as a group.

 

oldhippy: Yes, I have a problem if someone walks up to me and calls me something insulting. But I don't have a LEGAL problem, and neither should anyone in Sweden for that matter. We have to ACCEPT to be offended sometimes. That's the price we pay for real freedom of speech.

[oldhippy]

33 minutes ago, chemist said:

Those are the words of a subservient Swede, brainwashed since birth. I for one take the right to say ANYTHING to ANYBODY even if that person might be "offended". Look at the American legislation. You can say or write anything as long as your words don't put anyone else in imminent danger. That's the way it should be in Sweden too.

 

mstevens: I'm sorry to make you disappointed, but Sweden certainly doesn't have the world's most allowing freedom of speech laws. On the contrary, you have to watch out anytime anywhere. Someone might take you to the police for "insulting" or "offending" somebody.

 

Example: You're sitting on the bus in Sweden with some friends, chatting about how wrong you think the very liberal immigration laws in Sweden are. You point out that, statistically, people from North Africa or the Middle East are much more likely to commit crimes (which is true; can I write this on ThaiVisa?). THAT can be enough if another passenger feels "offended" or another Swedish passenger simply feels you are "offending" these immigrants as a group.

 

oldhippy: Yes, I have a problem if someone walks up to me and calls me something insulting. But I don't have a LEGAL problem, and neither should anyone in Sweden for that matter. We have to ACCEPT to be offended sometimes. That's the price we pay for real freedom of speech.

You really enjoy offending people, don't you?

I suggest you try that in Thailand, with your boss at uni or with a taxi driver.

[chemist]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You really enjoy offending people, don't you?

I suggest you try that in Thailand, with your boss at uni or with a taxi driver.

No, I don't enjoy offending people for no reason. This is not about what I like or don't like. It's a matter of principle.

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, chemist said:

No, I don't enjoy offending people for no reason. This is not about what I like or don't like. It's a matter of principle.

I think you are heading for disaster. Hope your medical insurance premiums are paid up to date. If so, does it cover dental costs if having your teeth punched out?

[chemist]

7 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I think you are heading for disaster. Hope your medical insurance premiums are paid up to date. If so, does it cover dental costs if having your teeth punched out?

Ha ha.  No, I don't have any plans to offend Thai people. The question I asked was about Sweden.

[rockingrobin]

On 1/15/2018 at 10:42 PM, chemist said:

The main question, though, is if I can be on trial in Sweden for stuff I write here. Does this vary between different Western countries? 

What you are enquiring about  enforceability

If a person views your post in Sweden they every right and expectation that the content would comply with Swedish law

As an example, a person viewing illegal acts on the internet  is still guilty regardless of where the content originated

[chemist]

16 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

What you are enquiring about  enforceability

If a person views your post in Sweden they every right and expectation that the content would comply with Swedish law

As an example, a person viewing illegal acts on the internet  is still guilty regardless of where the content originated

Yes, but what about if what I write in Thailand is legal here, but not in Sweden, could I be charged for something? Let's say I write "I hate Somalians" on Facebook. Can then any country where this sentence shows up (and it is illegal) charge me for "hate speech"? That would be ridiculous. 

 

If I write the above sentence here in Thailand, where it's probably perfectly legal, and a person in Mongolia (let's say it's illegal there) sees it and becomes offended it would be absurd if some court in Mongolia could charge me.

Edited January 17, 2018 by chemist
Spelling

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, chemist said:

Yes, but what about if what I write in Thailand is legal here, but not in Sweden, could I be charged for something? Let's say I write "I hate Somalians" on Facebook. Can then any country where this sentence shows up (and it is illegal) charge me for "hate speech"? That would be ridiculous. 

 

If I write the above sentence here in Thailand, where it's probably perfectly legal, and a person in Mongolia (let's say it's illegal there) sees it and becomes offended it would be absurd if some court in Mongolia could charge me.

1

You are trying to argue that because you are not present at the scene of the crime then you cannot be guilty.

Consider a person who is not present at a murder but who gave the order to kill by telephone. They are as much guilty as the person committing the act.

[Peterw42]

OP, I think you are looking at this too literally, Sweden or Thailand, the actual Facebook server is probably in the US. The hate speech laws would surely cover the content, and the release/publishing/distribution of the information in Sweden. not the place it was written etc. Technically you are publishing the information in Sweden, and every other country face book operates in, the moment you post. Books are written all over the world, printed, published etc, then sold in Sweden. Do the same principles apply.

There would be a definition within the Swedish laws as to what constitutes the publishing, distribution etc within Sweden.

Facebook operates in Sweden, you are posting on facebook, you are posting in Sweden.

[FritsSikkink]

18 minutes ago, chemist said:

Yes, but what about if what I write in Thailand is legal here, but not in Sweden, could I be charged for something? Let's say I write "I hate Somalians" on Facebook. Can then any country where this sentence shows up (and it is illegal) charge me for "hate speech"? That would be ridiculous. 

 

If I write the above sentence here in Thailand, where it's probably perfectly legal, and a person in Mongolia (let's say it's illegal there) sees it and becomes offended it would be absurd if some court in Mongolia could charge me.

It all depends on where the offended people will go to the police to make their complaint. If you write on a Swedish language website there will be a strong possibility that you will be charged in Sweden. You being in Thailand doesn't matter when you are have a Swedish nationality. You will have to go to court in Sweden, failing to do so won't stop them from convicting you. Next time you need a passport renewal you will have a nice surprise. If people feel offended here in Thailand you will have to go to court here.  

[oldhippy]

In stead of asking "What crimes can I get away with?" you should ask yourself "Why should I commit crimes?"

Simple really.

 

[Peterw42]

19 minutes ago, chemist said:

Yes, but what about if what I write in Thailand is legal here, but not in Sweden, could I be charged for something? Let's say I write "I hate Somalians" on Facebook. Can then any country where this sentence shows up (and it is illegal) charge me for "hate speech"? That would be ridiculous. 

 

If I write the above sentence here in Thailand, where it's probably perfectly legal, and a person in Mongolia (let's say it's illegal there) sees it and becomes offended it would be absurd if some court in Mongolia could charge me.

Probably not whether a person in Mongolia see it, More relevant would be if you posted to a friend in Mongolia.In definition thats you posting in Mongolia.