The Warnings

[12DrinkMore]

Singapore

From the Straits Times:

The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) has issued a strong warning to would-be [Bitcoin] investors to act with "extreme caution" and understand the significant risks of choosing to invest in cryptocurrencies.

"MAS is concerned that members of the public may be attracted to invest in cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, due to the recent escalation in their prices," it said in an advisory issued Tuesday (Dec. 19).

Cryptocurrencies are not legal tender, warned MAS. "They are not issued by any government and are not backed by any asset or issuer," it said, noting that the recent surge in the prices of cryptocurrencies is driven by speculation. "The risk of a sharp reduction in prices is high. Investors in cryptocurrencies should be aware that they run the risk of losing all their capital." [emphasis added]

United Kingdom

From the BBC:

Andrew Bailey, head of the Financial Conduct Authority, told the BBC that neither central banks nor the government stood behind the "currency" and therefore it was not a secure investment.

Buying Bitcoin, he said, was similar to gambling—and had the same level of risk.

"It's not a currency, it's actually not regulated in its Bitcoin form," Mr. Bailey told me in an interview for Newsnight.

"It's a very volatile commodity in terms of its pricing. If you look at what has happened this year, I would caution people. We know relatively little about what informs the price of Bitcoin. It's an odd commodity as well, as the supply is fixed. If you want to invest in Bitcoin be prepared to lose your money—that would be my serious warning." [emphasis added]

Australia

From a speech by Australian Central Bank governor Philip Lowe:

In reality, these currencies are not being commonly used for everyday payments and, as things currently stand, it is hard to see that changing. The value of Bitcoin is very volatile, the number of payments that can currently be handled is very low, there are governance problems, the transaction cost involved in making a payment with Bitcoin is very high and the estimates of the electricity used in the process of mining the coins are staggering. When thought of purely as a payment instrument, it seems more likely to be attractive to those who want to make transactions in the black or illegal economy, rather than everyday transactions. So the current fascination with these currencies feels more like a speculative mania than it has to do with their use as an efficient and convenient form of electronic payment. [emphasis added]

Germany

From the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung:

"These are highly speculative transactions with the possibility of total loss," said the head of the Federal Financial Supervisory Authority (Bafin), Felix Hufeld to the Bild newspaper. In the wake of the Bitcoin boom, there will be "excesses that produce bitter losers," warned Hufeld. Therefore, every Bitcoin investor must act with "the utmost caution" and know that "in the worst case, he can lose all his money." [emphasis added]

From Handelsblatt:

With Bitcoin's price recently skyrocketing, the Bundesbank warns savers against investments in the digital currency. "In our view, Bitcoin is not a suitable medium as a store of value. That's shown in even a quick glance at the wild fluctuations in its price," said Bundesbank board member Carl-Ludwig Thiele to the Welt am Sonntag. Bitcoin is "a speculative object" whose value is changing rapidly.

Russia

From Bloomberg:

"China doesn't recognize cryptocurrency as payment and forbids ICOs," Bank of Russia Deputy Governor Dmitry Skobelkin told reporters Thursday, after meeting with Chinese central bank officials earlier in the week. "Our views are absolutely similar. In our view it's a sort of a financial pyramid that may collapse at any moment." [emphasis added]

From Reuters:

Central Bank First Deputy Governor Sergei Shvetsov told a conference in Moscow that the [crypto-currencies] were "dubious" and investors needed to be protected. "We cannot stand apart. We cannot give direct and easy access to such dubious instruments for retail (investors)," Shvetsov said.

Austria

From Trending-Topics:

[Bitcoin] comes with legal risks and is also not a currency. "It is a betting chip for gambling and is seen by central banks as a matter of concern," said [Austrian Central Bank Governor Ewald Nowotny] in a report by the APA. [emphasis added]

From Reuters:

"Bitcoin lacks the one thing that makes a good currency, namely stability," [Ewald Nowotny] told Austrian daily Kleine Zeitung in an interview published on Wednesday. "Bitcoin is an object of speculation," he said.

China

The People's Bank of China warned about cryptocurrencies and ICOs:

There are multiple risks in coin offering fundraising and trading, including risk of false asset, risk of operation failure, risk of speculation, and etc. The investors shall take investment risks on their own and be cautious of frauds and scams.

But also deemed it flat-out illegal:

Financing through coin offerings refer to financing bodies raising virtual currencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum from investors through illegal sales and circulation of crypto currency or tokens. Such offerings, in essence, are unauthorized and illegal public fundraising and are suspected of involving in criminal activities such as illegal selling of tokens, illegal issuance of securities, illegal fundraising, financial fraud and pyramid schemes ... From the date of release of this Notice, fundraising through coin offering shall be banned immediately.Any individuals or organizations that have completed fundraising through coin offering shall make arrangements to return the funds raised, and to ensure that the legitimate rights and interests of the investors are protected and the risks involved are properly managed. [emphasis added]

And in December, PBOC governor Pan Gongsheng doubled down on the need for that move, according to a quote in Yicai Global:

If we didn't shut bitcoin exchanges and crack down on initial coin offerings (ICOs) a few months ago, and if more than 80% of the world's bitcoin transactions and financing activities were still taking place China, which was the case back in January, what would it be like today? It's scary to think about.

South Korea

From Fortune:

South Korea's central bank chief on Wednesday warned of 'irrational exuberance' in trading of virtual coins, which have risen dramatically in value this year amid frenzied speculation.

"Looking at recent frenzy over virtual currencies worldwide, I worry whether there is some dose of irrational exuberance there," Bank of Korea Governor Lee Ju-yeol said over a year-end event with reporters on Wednesday night.

India

Last February, the Reserve Bank of India issued this warning:

Attention of members of public is drawn to the Press Release issued by the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) on December 24, 2013, cautioning users, holders and traders of Virtual Currencies (VCs) including Bitcoins regarding the potential economic, financial, operational, legal, customer protection and security related risks associated in dealing with such VCs.

Which echoed a previous warning that included:

There is no underlying or backing of any asset for VCs. As such, their value seems to be a matter of speculation. Huge volatility in the value of VCs has been noticed in the recent past. Thus, the users are exposed to potential losses on account of such volatility in value.

And more recently, The Times of India reported a step-up in tone at the RBI:

"There is a real and heightened risk of investment bubble of the type seen in Ponzi schemes, which can result in sudden and prolonged crash exposing investors, especially retail consumers losing their hard-earned money," the statement said. "Consumers need to be alert and extremely cautious as to avoid getting trapped in such Ponzi schemes," it added. [emphasis added]

New Zealand

From Bloomberg:

"It looks remarkably like a bubble forming to me," Reserve Bank of New Zealand Acting Governor Grant Spencer said in interview with TVNZ broadcast on Sunday. "Over the centuries we've seen bubbles, and this appears to be a bit of a classic case. With a bubble, you never know how far it's going to go before it comes down."

Denmark

From Reuters:

"You should stay away (from bitcoin). It is deadly," central bank head Lars Rohde said in an interview with state broadcaster DR published online on Monday. ... Rohde said that if people decide to ignore his warnings, they should realize that they are pretty much on their own. "It is not a regulated market. It is not the responsibility of the authorities. It is the responsibility of the individual," said Rohde. [emphasis added]
 

[Bagwain]

Scare mongering as they (Gov's) can't control it!! 55555

[12DrinkMore]

1 minute ago, Bagwain said:

Scare mongering as they (Gov's) can't control it!! 55555

 

Or simply issuing prudent advice?

 

There is not always a hidden agenda, and the population expects, even requires, governments to provide and protect a reasonably safe infrastructure.

 

Ponzi schemes are illegal for a reason.

 

 

[userabcd]

Prudent advice, I imagine when people see their money invested dwindling to nothing or exchanges closing without refunding monies, the populations will certainly be looking to their governments to sort it out.

[watcharacters]

24 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

Scare mongering as they (Gov's) can't control it!! 55555

 

 

If a few Western governments  required reporting any cryptocurrency transactions under penalty of law that might change things. 

 

I am of the belief cryptocurrencies exist partly to   evade tax obligations.

[jesimps]

I was in cryptos from November to yesterday and made enough to buy myself a new computer and still have some left over. I sold most of my coins but have a few left in my Electrum wallet just in case they take off again. When I judge that they've finished correcting, and people stop putting the boot in and we have a series of good news reports then I'll start buying again at lower prices than what I sold at. Bitcoin's dropped 2000 usd since I sold. The alts probably more. Every other investor in cryptos had the same option as me, no one's forced to remain in and lose money.

 

I'd be interested in knowing why the OP is so anti Bitcoin as to go trawling around for all those press reports. It appears to be an obsession. He doesn't mention casinos, horse racing, football pools etc which in my opinion are far more harmful and dangerous than cryptos. In fact they're out and out gambling whereas by studying fundamentals, charts, past performance etc you can use a degree of skill in bitcoin investment. What about forex? What's so immoral about cryptos when trading in fiat currencies is considered respectable. I don't see any news reports knocking them. Also the stock market.

 

It smacks of extreme jealousy on the part of the OP because he has seen people making a fortune at cryptos but doesn't have the bottle to try it himself.

 

I for one am enjoying myself immensely trading cryptos and take extreme exception to people trying to spoil my fun. It's my hard earned money that I trade with, I'm an adult and know the risks. I've seen all that FUD that poses as media reports and if you send me them on paper, I have a very good use for them.

 

Now I'd be very grateful if you would go about your own forms of investment and leave me and countless millions of other to pursue ours.

 

Long live cryptos!

[jesimps]

26 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Or simply issuing prudent advice?

 

There is not always a hidden agenda, and the population expects, even requires, governments to provide and protect a reasonably safe infrastructure.

 

Ponzi schemes are illegal for a reason.

 

 

If cryptos are a ponzi scheme then so is forex? I've traded in both and there's very little difference. No one forces you to trade and no one stops you from cashing in. You have a big chip on your shoulder about cryptos for some reason. Nobody ever told you that obsessions are dangerous? Go get yourself a girlfriend and have that boil on your arse lanced while you're at it.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by jesimps

[jesimps]

15 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Prudent advice, I imagine when people see their money invested dwindling to nothing or exchanges closing without refunding monies, the populations will certainly be looking to their governments to sort it out.

So people don't see their money "dwindling" in stocks, or forex, or casinos, or horse racing, or football pools etc etc etc. Why stick the boot in on cryptos? Jealousy????  Let people make their own decisions and stop interferring. You remind me of my mother in law.

 

[phycokiller]

the price is back to what it was at the end of november, if you are a short term invester you might not have done so well, long term its nothing unusual

[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

If a few Western governments  required reporting any cryptocurrency transactions under penalty of law that might change things. 

 

I am of the belief cryptocurrencies exist partly to   evade tax obligations.

 

It is already on the way. Here comes the IRS.

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/virtual-currency-exchanges-and-us-customers-beware-irs-is-coming-expert-blog

 

The UK banks are also required to report "unusual" activity.
 

[watcharacters]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

So people don't see their money "dwindling" in stocks, or forex, or casinos, or horse racing, or football pools etc etc etc. Why stick the boot in on cryptos? Jealousy????  Let people make their own decisions and stop interferring. You remind me of my mother in law.

 

 

 

 

I think something totally unregulated and fully based on faith is a GOOD THING.

 

Can anyone disagree with that?

 

 

 

 

 

[12DrinkMore]

3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

I think something totally unregulated and fully based on faith is a GOOD THING.

 

Can anyone disagree with that?

 

Only if there is zero possibility of 

 

1. innocent people getting hurt

 

2. any form whatsoever of government or socialised bailout or support

 

And that includes for anyone financially damaged; social housing, food handouts, social care, legal aid, social security money, help for the families, spouses and descendants, medical treatment, psychiatric treatment and all the other safety nets that people implicitly think are always going to be available whatever the f6ck they do.

 

If you can guarantee that, then sure, enjoy!

 

[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

You remind me of my mother in law.

 

She must have been a woman of sound judgement.

[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

Nobody ever told you that obsessions are dangerous?

 

Sometimes I wonder who has the biggest obsession.

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Only if there is zero possibility of 

 

1. innocent people getting hurt

 

2. any form whatsoever of government or socialised bailout or support

 

And that includes for anyone financially damaged; social housing, food handouts, social care, legal aid, social security money, help for the families, spouses and descendants, medical treatment, psychiatric treatment and all the other safety nets that people implicitly think are always going to be available whatever the f6ck they do.

 

If you can guarantee that, then sure, enjoy!

 

 

 

My post was sarcasm.

 

I just looked today how many cryptocurrencies exist and was shocked to read the number at 1384.   Good Golly!

 

 

Good luck to those willing to take a "Leap of Faith"  ( the title of a Steve Martin flick I enjoyed.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[12DrinkMore]

2 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

My post was sarcasm.

 

I just looked today how many cryptocurrencies exist and was shocked to read the number at 1384.   Good Golly!

 

Good luck to those willing to take a "Leap of Faith"  ( the title of a Steve Martin flick I enjoyed.)

 

Sorry, missed that.

 

I have gotten too used to being bashed by the Bitters.

 

There are over three thousand claimants to having a crapto ,  but the list here has 1442 tradeable, which goes up almost every time I look at it.

 

https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

 

I think the way it works is that some guy creates a crapto, which apparently can be done in a few hours, issues 1,000,000,000,000 to himself, sells a friend one for a dollar. He can then claim to be in the USD 1T MarkCap Club.

 

 

[12DrinkMore]

Quote

"Steven Maijoor, chairman of the European Securities and Markets Authority, said investors “should be prepared to lose all their money” in Bitcoin, in a Bloomberg TV interview in Hong Kong. “It has an extremely volatile value, which undermines its use as a currency,” he said. “It’s also not broadly accepted."

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-16/cryptocurrencies-resume-slide-as-bitcoin-tumbles-to-december-low

 

[Wonderboy]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

If cryptos are a ponzi scheme then so is forex? I've traded in both and there's very little difference. No one forces you to trade and no one stops you from cashing in. You have a big chip on your shoulder about cryptos for some reason. Nobody ever told you that obsessions are dangerous? Go get yourself a girlfriend and have that boil on your arse lanced while you're at it.

 

 

Today bitcoin is currently down 12%. Moves like that up or down is very common and yet you say there are very little difference. Anyway, we are discussing cryptos here. There are millions of risky investments out there, but thats beside the point. Investing in cryptos is risky, or you want to dispute that?

[guzzi850m2]

I read somewhere today that some people had taken up double mortgages in their houses to buy bitcoin and similar and some lost it all, got scammed, hacked and the government(s) can do little to help. That's one reason why some governments are against cryptos and off-course they don't know what people got tucked away (yet) and are loosing tax money.

I gonna have a go at it anyway but not more than a month salary worth. 

 

 

[12DrinkMore]

40 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

I read somewhere today that some people had taken up double mortgages in their houses to buy bitcoin and similar and some lost it all, got scammed, hacked and the government(s) can do little to help.

 

Why should governments help? One of the tenets of bitcoiners is that it should NOT be under any government authority.

But to expect governments to step in when they lose money?

That would be a total social injustice to all those who did not take the risks.

Edited January 17, 2018 by 12DrinkMore

[Golden Triangle]

I was interested in the anonymous bit of cryptocurrencies, not because I'm a criminal who needs to keep below the parapet but as someone who has paid my dues for more years than I care to mention and would like just for once get one over the taxman  That seems to be disappearing at a rapid rate of knots as Central banks and governments seem to take more interest in what's going on.

 

I will stand by what I said on this forum a couple of months back: 

And to an extent it has happened, can they drop any further, experts   -  Over to you :)

[Bagwain]

16 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

It is already on the way. Here comes the IRS.

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/virtual-currency-exchanges-and-us-customers-beware-irs-is-coming-expert-blog

 

The UK banks are also required to report "unusual" activity.
 

Might be why the Bomberikans can't join bx me thinks! 555

[taiping]

Oh No, 12DrinkMore -- not more negativity about cryptos! 

Have you nothing better to do in life? Are you sitting alone in your condo somewhere craving for attention because of your BS posts about cryptos?

Those of us who have some understanding of the technology are not interested in your uninformed views, but others who are vaguely interested in cryptos would be better off consulting Google.

 

[Suradit69]

On 1/17/2018 at 12:41 PM, 12DrinkMore said:

Andrew Bailey, head of the Financial Conduct Authority, told the BBC that neither central banks nor the government stood behind the "currency"

It sounds like Andrew is making a case for buying cryptos.

 

On 1/17/2018 at 12:41 PM, 12DrinkMore said:

and therefore it was not a secure investment.

There's a non sequitur lurking here or else Andrew is performing at open-mike night at the FCA comedy club.

[Guest]

Bitcoin has a major problem using it in shops etc. Buy one $5 pizza, pay $70 for fees and wait hours to get the transaction through. Not very useful as everyday money.

 

Miami Bitcoin Conference Stops Accepting Bitcoin Due to Fees and Congestion

https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/

[Wonderboy]

18 minutes ago, taiping said:

Oh No, 12DrinkMore -- not more negativity about cryptos! 

Have you nothing better to do in life? Are you sitting alone in your condo somewhere craving for attention because of your BS posts about cryptos?

Those of us who have some understanding of the technology are not interested in your uninformed views, but others who are vaguely interested in cryptos would be better off consulting Google.

 

Problem is that to many of those who understand the technology, don't understand economy. Not even basic economy.

[USNret]

22 hours ago, jesimps said:

If cryptos are a ponzi scheme then so is forex? I've traded in both and there's very little difference. No one forces you to trade and no one stops you from cashing in. You have a big chip on your shoulder about cryptos for some reason. Nobody ever told you that obsessions are dangerous? Go get yourself a girlfriend and have that boil on your arse lanced while you're at it.

 

 

If you can't see the difference between forex & crypto, you should not be trading.  There are virtually no similarities between the two.  I recommend for you some nice, safe municipal bonds.  

[alien365]

I don't need 'experts' or governments to tell me that cryptocurrencies are a risk.  As an adult it is a given that in a scheme where you can make a lot of money very quickly, you may also lose a lot of money very quickly. Are people really that thick that we need warnings from big brother?

[12DrinkMore]

14 minutes ago, alien365 said:

Are people really that thick that we need warnings from big brother?

 

Yes.

[farmerjo]

I enjoy reading Both sides of the story on here.