Bangkok Air Pollution

[JimShorts]

The air quality in Bangkok the last two months has been very poor and getting worse daily. The last two days AQI has been registering very unhealthy levels of PM2.5, exceeding 200 in some areas (about 20X what the WHO says is safe). Yet no one seems to care, it's business as usual. When I mention to people the air quality is bad they say it is "fog" or just look at me blankly. When I put my mask on people look at me like I am odd. I don't think people understand how bad it is breathing this air, especially the children and the elderly. Also odd, nothing in the news, nothing online, almost as if no one notices. 

[Just Weird]

You're right, no one cares about this type of alarmist post because it's not a big deal and nothing can be done about it in the medium to short term. If you are donning a medical type mask you're wasting your time with that too.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Just Weird

[JimShorts]

It is a big deal. The health impacts are very real and very serious, especially for young and old people. 

 

Many steps can be taken in the short/medium term to reduce air pollution and are taken in many other major cities around the world when the air pollution reaches such dangerous levels. 

 

Indeed, the medical masks do nothing to reduce the amount of pollution you breath, nor does a hand/shirt/fabric over face. You have to use a proper mask. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by JimShorts

[Thian]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

You're right, no one cares about this type of alarmist post because it's not a big deal and nothing can be done about it in the medium to short term. If you are donning a medical type mask you're wasting your time with that too.

People sure care and move to the subs away from the main roads in a nice moobaan with loads of green.

 

And sure something can be done, in China they decided that only cars with an even number on their licenseplate can drive on one day and the other day the uneven numbers are allowed to drive. That will sure work!

 

Also in China they use electric motocycles ONLY in certain cities....also electric cars don't pollute bad air in a city.

 

At places like Saphan Kwai bts the air is really bad, why you think nobody cares? Why do the streetvendors there wear facemasks ALL DAYS you think?

[JimShorts]

China has also imposed a no construction policy in some areas this winter (air pollution is much worse in the winter) which has worked very well. 

 

Bangkok is doing a good job, with the BTS, new electric busses coming, gas type conversion of cars and motorcycles, etc. Obviously more can be done, the odd/even license plate technique is very successful and used in many cities. Construction limits, crop burning limits, etc. Many things can be done. 

 

In general public awareness and transparency seem low. On a day like today, public alerts seem appropriate. Otherwise many people just won't know any better. 

[Just Weird]

20 minutes ago, Thian said:

People sure care and move to the subs away from the main roads in a nice moobaan with loads of green.

 

And sure something can be done, in China they decided that only cars with an even number on their licenseplate can drive on one day and the other day the uneven numbers are allowed to drive. That will sure work!

 

Also in China they use electric motocycles ONLY in certain cities....also electric cars don't pollute bad air in a city.

 

At places like Saphan Kwai bts the air is really bad, why you think nobody cares? Why do the streetvendors there wear facemasks ALL DAYS you think?

The China "solution" of alternate days has no significant effect in the short to medium term which was my point.

 

How can the Chinese electric bike and car project be applied to Bangkok?  You also seem to be ignoring the fact that huge amounts of electricity need to be generated for that kind of plan, do you have any idea of how that is made?  It doesn't come free from sockets in walls, you know?

 

I've no idea why the vendors wear masks as they have next to no effect; do their masks seal airtight onto the face or does the dirty air get in all the gaps?  The vendors are still breathing exactly the same air as everyone else in the area.

[JimShorts]

41 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

The China "solution" of alternate days has no significant effect in the short to medium term which was my point.

It reduces the pollution from cars in half. In real time. On the days it is implemented. That is significant. 

[ChidlomDweller]

I agree.  The air has been awful lately.  I live on the 27th floor and on some mornings can no longer see buildings 2-3km away, at all.  There doesn't seem to be political will to do anything about it either, like with anything else in this country.  One of the reasons I'm leaving Thailand this year.  Not worth compromising my health.

[ChidlomDweller]

One bit of advice for those who care: google DIY air purifier.  

[Thian]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

The China "solution" of alternate days has no significant effect in the short to medium term which was my point.

 

How can the Chinese electric bike and car project be applied to Bangkok?  You also seem to be ignoring the fact that huge amounts of electricity need to be generated for that kind of plan, do you have any idea of how that is made?  It doesn't come free from sockets in walls, you know?

 

I've no idea why the vendors wear masks as they have next to no effect; do their masks seal airtight onto the face or does the dirty air get in all the gaps?  The vendors are still breathing exactly the same air as everyone else in the area.

Of course the china solution will have effect, do you think all Thai have 2 cars with even and uneven plates?

 

And how many powerplants are there in the Siam area??

 

What a nonsense again.....

[Thian]

1 hour ago, ChidlomDweller said:

I agree.  The air has been awful lately.  I live on the 27th floor and on some mornings can no longer see buildings 2-3km away, at all.  There doesn't seem to be political will to do anything about it either, like with anything else in this country.  One of the reasons I'm leaving Thailand this year.  Not worth compromising my health.

Today i saw the police writing a fine to an old skinny grandma who parked her pickup on the road at a busy spot....she went beserk! I've never seen a grandma going wild like that against an officer of the police.

 

That's why nothing ever gets done here, there are many guns around as well......

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, Just Weird said:

I've no idea why the vendors wear masks as they have next to no effect; do their masks seal airtight onto the face or does the dirty air get in all the gaps?  The vendors are still breathing exactly the same air as everyone else in the area.

Some people prefer to see food handlers wearing face masks, hair nets and plastic gloves.

Nothing to do with air pollution. 

Dentists wear them because of the spray caused by drilling, etc. not because of air pollution.

 

People don't just breathe in.   Achoo.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Suradit69

[JimShorts]

According to http://aqicn.org/ of the top 50 most populated cities in the world, in which Bangkok is the 31st most populated, today Bangkok has the 3rd worst air pollution.

 

The air quality in Shanghai is almost 4x better then Bangkok. The air quality in Beijing is almost 5x better then Bangkok. 

 

However, the air quality in 8 cities is unknown. 

[DavidB4]

17 hours ago, Thian said:

People sure care and move to the subs away from the main roads in a nice moobaan with loads of green.

 

And sure something can be done, in China they decided that only cars with an even number on their licenseplate can drive on one day and the other day the uneven numbers are allowed to drive. That will sure work!

 

Also in China they use electric motocycles ONLY in certain cities....also electric cars don't pollute bad air in a city.

 

At places like Saphan Kwai bts the air is really bad, why you think nobody cares? Why do the streetvendors there wear facemasks ALL DAYS you think?

Even/odd license plates do NOT work! How are you supposed to get to work? They tried that in Athens and people just got 2 cars, one with even - one with odd, great solution!

[JimShorts]

13 minutes ago, DavidB4 said:

Even/odd license plates do NOT work! How are you supposed to get to work? They tried that in Athens and people just got 2 cars, one with even - one with odd, great solution!

 

I will take the research from Yale over your opinion:

https://environment-review.yale.edu/fewer-cars-less-air-pollution

Edited January 24, 2018 by JimShorts

[IAMHERE]

Even/odd license plates only serve to harm the poorer, the rich do have multiple cars, even the well off have more than one car. I'd imagine many would just create their own even/odd plates.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

15 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

I agree.  The air has been awful lately.  I live on the 27th floor and on some mornings can no longer see buildings 2-3km away, at all.  There doesn't seem to be political will to do anything about it either, like with anything else in this country.  One of the reasons I'm leaving Thailand this year.  Not worth compromising my health.

Everything is relative:

 

Beijing 2017

[PerkinsCuthbert]

China has 300 coal-fired power stations under construction; countries around the world are building more than are being shut and replaced; as a species, as economic development continues globally, we are nowhere near even reversing the trend in air pollution, yet alone beginning to clean it up.

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Some people prefer to see food handlers wearing face masks, hair nets and plastic gloves.

Nothing to do with air pollution. 

Dentists wear them because of the spray caused by drilling, etc. not because of air pollution.

 

People don't just breathe in.   Achoo.

I know that but that wasn't the issue, dirty air was what was being discussed.  Some posters seem to think that if a mask is worn, magically, dirty air does not get breathed in.

[JimShorts]

18 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

I know that but that wasn't the issue, dirty air was what was being discussed.  Some posters seem to think that if a mask is worn, magically, dirty air does not get breathed in.

Not true, I do not see any posters saying a mask magically does not allow dirty air in. Only the opposite statement is made. 

[JimShorts]

39 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Everything is relative:

 

Beijing 2017

Indeed Beijing had a worse air quality average in 2017, however today Bangkok air is 4x worse then Beijing. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by JimShorts

[JimShorts]

46 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Even/odd license plates only serve to harm the poorer, the rich do have multiple cars, even the well off have more than one car. I'd imagine many would just create their own even/odd plates.

Very true even/odd would have more negative economic impact on the poorer then the richer. However, aside form the very rich, in general people do not have more then 1 car, families often have more then 1 car. I'm sure people would create their plates and probably do already for other reasons, people will always bend and break the rules/laws, that doesn't mean rules/laws should not be implemented. 

[richard_smith237]

In over a decade in Bangkok this is the poorest Air Quality I've encountered. 

 

The pollution is 'visibly significant'...  

 

However, I'm not sure it is solely Bangkok which is suffering - There is also a thread running on this forum regarding the 'haze' in Hua Hun.

 

Perhaps something regional is happening ????

 

In Bangkok it is extremely 'still' with no breeze to seems to impact the issue. 

[ChidlomDweller]

1 hour ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Everything is relative:

 

Beijing 2017

It's more obvious from a highrise.  There are mornings it looks like this.  I live near the Chidlom BTS and on bad days the buildings around Nana look like the ones in your picture.

[flyingdoc]

Medical masks do in fact work, but only for 30 minutes or so, provided they are moistened !

[LALes]

In 10 years living in Thailand this is by far the worst air I have ever seen. Readings of 200 on the aqi were never encountered before last week. Now they are popping up seemingly every other day. Not only the intensity but the longevity is frightening.

 

Bangkok is not alone in this. Most of the Eastern Seaboard from chonburi down to rayong has had numbers in the 160s+ during this stretch.

[JimShorts]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

However, I'm not sure it is solely Bangkok which is suffering - There is also a thread running on this forum regarding the 'haze' in Hua Hun.

 

Perhaps something regional is happening ????

 

In Bangkok it is extremely 'still' with no breeze to seems to impact the issue. 

This map shows the entire region and how wind/particle flow moves: https://airvisual.com/earth

 

If you zoom into Thailand (double click to zoom) You can see that the air quality from Khao Yai, down to Hua Hin and Rayong is all very poor.

 

You can also use this map which visualizes, just zoom into the Thailand area: http://aqicn.org/forecast/world/

 

According to a greenpeace report, 50% of the air pollution comes from burning. The other 50% from industry, cars, etc. Source: https://greenpeace.or.th/s/right-to-clean-air/PM2.5CityRankingsREV.pdf

 

Also, Bangkok is the most, or second most, traffic congested city in the world, traffic congestion increases vehicle emissions and degrades ambient air quality. This coupled with so many vehicles, many of which are old and/or have bad emissions, only makes the situation worse. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4243514/

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by JimShorts

[tryasimight]

21 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

I agree.  The air has been awful lately.  I live on the 27th floor and on some mornings can no longer see buildings 2-3km away, at all.  There doesn't seem to be political will to do anything about it either, like with anything else in this country.  One of the reasons I'm leaving Thailand this year.  Not worth compromising my health.

If I had a dollar........ I've heard people saying this for years not only in Thailand but in mining towns in Australia.  I'm leaving,  they declare.  Well do it... Just go.  Nobody cares. 

Funny thing is though within 12 months a lot of those people have or want to return. 

[tryasimight]

5 hours ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

China has 300 coal-fired power stations under construction; countries around the world are building more than are being shut and replaced; as a species, as economic development continues globally, we are nowhere near even reversing the trend in air pollution, yet alone beginning to clean it up.

They new generation low emission coal fired plants are replacing the very old polluting plants many if which have already closed.  China is also building a lot of clean generating capacity by way of nukes. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by tryasimight

[tryasimight]

People come to city with 10 million people and 6 million cars and complain about pollution. Some people move to the tropics and complain about the heat. 

Unbelievable.