Bangkok Air Pollution

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Can you do cash on delivery with Aliexpress?

Ha... don't think so. I believe I paid with a bank card.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

59 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

From the Smart Air online shop.

 

I think you have to be very wary with claims like change the HEPA filter every two years. Is this for Japan or Bangkok? As Bangkok is probably four times more polluted than Tokyo, it might need to be changed every 6 months.

 

I modeled what I think you're doing, and came out closer to 2400 baht per year just in filters. So over the period of two years, that's about the same cost as buying a modest new air purifier with new filter here. Heck, I paid 3,200 baht for my new Sharp with the HEPA filter included.

 

For modeling your approach, I went with the somewhat cheaper DIY 4-pack of filters, not the Canon 4-pack:

 

 

Then added in the international shipping cost charged by the vendor.

 

 

 

And that got me into the 2400 baht per year neighborhood.

 

But the curious part to me is, apart from the high relative cost of continual HEPA filter replacements, is both of their HEPA filter models are square 296 mm sizes, which is roughly 11.6 inches square. And yet you were talking earlier about using a 14 inch diameter fan. So the HEPA filters from them aren't covering the full front space of the fan?

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I modeled what I think you're doing, and came out closer to 2400 baht per year just in filters. So over the period of two years, that's about the same cost as buying a modest new air purifier with new filter here. Heck, I paid 3,200 baht for my new Sharp with the HEPA filter included.

 

For modeling your approach, I went with the somewhat cheaper DIY 4-pack of filters, not the Canon 4-pack:

 

 

Then added in the international shipping cost charged by the vendor.

 

 

 

And that got me into the 2400 baht per year neighborhood.

 

But the curious part to me is, apart from the high relative cost of continual HEPA filter replacements, is both of their HEPA filter models are square 296 mm sizes, which is roughly 11.6 inches square. And yet you were talking earlier about using a 14 inch diameter fan. So the HEPA filters from them aren't covering the full front space of the fan?

 

 

Well your price is higher because you chose the most expensive shipping option. I go for the cheaper option and it arrives in 2 weeks.

 

The cost is cheaper than any other option that uses a true HEPA filter. 

 

As I've said a couple of times, I use sellotape to seal the filter to the fan, which closes the gaps.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

 

The cost is cheaper than any other option that uses a true HEPA filter. 

 

 

Not sure about that. My Sharp unit cost 3200b total, and I have no reason to expect that its original True HEPA filter won't last the estimated two years, especially because I AM using a carbon prefilter with it. It really does make a huge difference in preserving and extending the life of one's HEPA filters.

 

But even if I have to replace it somewhat sooner than 2 years, the replacements run 950 baht. And I'll guarantee you my HEPA filter in the Sharp absolutely will last longer than a year at worst. So I'm certainly not going to be spending 2000+ baht per year on replacement filters, any way you cut it.

 

 

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Not sure about that. My Sharp unit cost 3200b total, and I have no reason to expect that its original True HEPA filter won't last the estimated two years, especially because I AM using a carbon prefilter with it. It really does make a huge difference in preserving and extending the life of one's HEPA filters.

 

But even if I have to replace it somewhat sooner than 2 years, the replacements run 950 baht. And I'll guarantee you my HEPA filter in the Sharp absolutely will last longer than a year at worst. So I'm certainly not going to be spending 2000+ baht per year on replacement filters, any way you cut it.

 

 

 

 

2000 baht is the upper limit. I could lower it by buying a bunch of cheap pre-filters for $1 each from the Smart Air website and changing the HEPA filter every two years. But as filtration efficiency of all HEPA filters decreases over time, the more frequently you change it the better. 

 

Also, not all HEPA filters are equal. The Smart Air ones are as good as they come whereas your Sharp appears to be in the E10 class which provides only 85% efficiency. See the specifications section of the Wikipedia article:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by edwardandtubs

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

54 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Also, not all HEPA filters are equal. The Smart Air ones are as good as they come whereas your Sharp appears to be in the E10 class which provides only 85% efficiency. See the specifications section of the Wikipedia article:

 

 

I saw a reference to E10 in part of Sharp's information, but I'm not sure what to make of it. Given, that the manual for my Sharp unit specifically says HEPA filter efficiency of 99.97% down to 0.3 microns, which is True HEPA.

 

From the manual for my Sharp unit:

 

And on the Sharp website for the unit, it has these two pertinent entries:

 

 

 

http://www.sharp.co.th/product_detail.aspx?l=en&p=383&c=2&sc=6

 

[edwardandtubs]

Sounds like the marketing guys are trying to tell you it's 99.97 but the technical guys are telling the truth. Why would they say it was E10 if it was actually higher? You can't expect to pay 3300 baht and get the same performance as one that's 3 times the price.

[ChidlomDweller]

3 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

From the Smart Air online shop.

 

I think you have to be very wary with claims like change the HEPA filter every two years. Is this for Japan or Bangkok? As Bangkok is probably four times more polluted than Tokyo, it might need to be changed every 6 months.

My Blueair manual recommends changing the HEPA filter every 6 months, AND i assume that's based on Swedish air (where the company is based).  The Smartair website has some nice data on the declining effectiveness of filters over time, but even better is probably if you have your own particle meter so you can tell when it's time.

[ChidlomDweller]

3 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by ChidlomDweller
Double post

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ChidlomDweller said:

My Blueair manual recommends changing the HEPA filter every 6 months, AND i assume that's based on Swedish air (where the company is based).  The Smartair website has some nice data on the declining effectiveness of filters over time, but even better is probably if you have your own particle meter so you can tell when it's time.

 

Like this one, sitting in my bedroom right now, about 6 feet away from my Sharp HEPA purifier...

 

 

To be fair, the meter in my bedroom has been bouncing between 0 and 1 and 2 micrograms during the past hour.  It helps that the air outside tonight is a bit better than it's been...roughly 28 micrograms outside.

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Better day today. With luck, might stay in the yellow and out of the orange:

 

 

[balo]

More windy today , I live near the ocean so we have a steady breeze , that will probably also affect central Bangkok. 

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, balo said:

More windy today , I live near the ocean so we have a steady breeze , that will probably also affect central Bangkok. 

 

It's risen to 109 AQI.  

[balo]

I guess it will get worse at certain times of the day .  But I'm pretty sure weather conditions affect air pollution from day to day .  

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, balo said:

I guess it will get worse at certain times of the day .  But I'm pretty sure weather conditions affect air pollution from day to day .  

Yes, a stiff breeze must surely blow pollution away to some extent.  I think it depends on the source.  Much of Bangkok;s problem comes from traffic emissions and this must surely be dispersed.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 3/24/2018 at 12:37 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The one thing I also want to test -- but haven't had a chance to do it yet -- is whether using the Filtrete sheets on your regular permanent air con filters has any effect on PM2.5.  Supposedly, the Filtrete sheets can capture particles fairly small. But in reading up on that product, it's hard to find clear, specific info on just how small, and how efficient they are at filtration (90%, 95% 99%???).  So now that I have a PM2.5 sensor at home, testing the Filtrete sheets without running air purifiers is one of the things on my agenda.

 

Did you have a chance to do the aircon only test in your bedroom?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Did you have a chance to do the aircon only test in your bedroom?

 

Funny you should mention that... Just got back home now after being gone and outside some hours. Turned on the bedroom AC with Filtrete sheets installed. No purifier. Will re-check the bedroom PM2.5 level in one hour.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Chaing Mai City News has linked to an interesting PDF document report by Greenpeace that tracks the PM2.5 pollution levels in different Thai cities, including several locations in BKK, during 2014, 2015 and the first six months of 2016. Well worth reading...

 

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/greenpeace-publishes-city-rankings-pm2-5-thailand-first-time/

 

greenpeace.or.th/s/right-to-clean-air/PM2.5CityRankingsREV.pdf

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Funny you should mention that... Just got back home now after being gone and outside some hours. Turned on the bedroom AC with Filtrete sheets installed. No purifier. Will re-check the bedroom PM2.5 level in one hour.

 

Well, this is interesting, and deserving of another round of testing. But here's what I found.

 

I started with a nothing going on bedroom at 5:30 pm and got a 31 mcg reading for PM2.5 after coming home and just checking in the bedroom.

 

At that point, turned on the Mitsu wall air con on medium fan with relatively new (about one week since installed) Filtrete sheets covering all (100%) of its two regular plastic screen filters. Windows closed. One door to bedroom kept closed except for my brief entry twice to check the PM2.5 sensor.

 

Checked back 30 minutes later at 6 pm, and got a 14 mcg reading. Checked back another 30 minutes later (1 hour since starting) and got a 7 mcg reading.

 

Now, if I was running the air purifier in addition to the air con with Filtrete sheets, that would usually bring the PM2.5 levels from 30+ to 5 or less mcg in less than a half hour in the bedroom. So, the decline in PM2.5 was slower than with the purifier, and didn't take the levels down as low as the purifier would, at least at the one hour point. (Normally when I'm in the bedroom, I'm running both the air con there and now lately the purifier as well).

 

The one caveat I can think of is, while I was testing this in the bedroom, I had the air con and my other air purifier running in the adjoining living room, separated by a closed door. In my past experience, I don't get a lot of air movement between the living room and bedroom with the door kept closed.

 

But it's certainly possible / likely there's some leakage from room to room, although not enough to produce the kind of PM2.5 reductions I saw in the bedroom at 30 and 60 minutes with just the bedroom air con running with two Filtrete sheets on its filters.

 

So, I think, it's worth trying again in a situation where:

--I'm running the bedroom AC with Filtete sheets, but NOT running the air purifier in the adjoining living room.

--and probably, another round where I'm just running the bedroom aircon and its normal filters without any Filtrete sheets. 

 

As I mentioned before, what I read previously about the Filtrete sheets suggested they had some ability to capture small particles down to or close to the PM2.5 size. But it also suggested that the sheets had a pretty limited lifespan for accomplishing that, and would get saturated and less effective pretty quickly. But those notions were just from some quick reading. I didn't find a lot of reporting info directly on the point you've raised.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Well, this is interesting, and deserving of another round of testing. But here's what I found.

 

I started with a nothing going on bedroom at 5:30 pm and got a 31 mcg reading for PM2.5 after coming home and just checking in the bedroom.

 

At that point, turned on the Mitsu wall air con on medium fan with relatively new (about one week since installed) Filtrete sheets covering all (100%) of its two regular plastic screen filters. Windows closed. One door to bedroom kept closed except for my brief entry twice to check the PM2.5 sensor.

 

Checked back 30 minutes later at 6 pm, and got a 14 mcg reading. Checked back another 30 minutes later (1 hour since starting) and got a 7 mcg reading.

 

Now, if I was running the air purifier in addition to the air con with Filtrete sheets, that would usually bring the PM2.5 levels from 30+ to 5 or less mcg in less than a half hour in the bedroom. So, the decline in PM2.5 was slower than with the purifier, and didn't take the levels down as low as the purifier would, at least at the one hour point. (Normally when I'm in the bedroom, I'm running both the air con there and now lately the purifier as well).

 

The one caveat I can think of is, while I was testing this in the bedroom, I had the air con and my other air purifier running in the adjoining living room, separated by a closed door. In my past experience, I don't get a lot of air movement between the living room and bedroom with the door kept closed.

 

But it's certainly possible / likely there's some leakage from room to room, although not enough to produce the kind of PM2.5 reductions I saw in the bedroom at 30 and 60 minutes with just the bedroom air con running with two Filtrete sheets on its filters.

 

So, I think, it's worth trying again in a situation where:

--I'm running the bedroom AC with Filtete sheets, but NOT running the air purifier in the adjoining living room.

--and probably, another round where I'm just running the bedroom aircon and its normal filters without any Filtrete sheets. 

 

As I mentioned before, what I read previously about the Filtrete sheets suggested they had some ability to capture small particles down to or close to the PM2.5 size. But it also suggested that the sheets had a pretty limited lifespan for accomplishing that, and would get saturated and less effective pretty quickly. But those notions were just from some quick reading. I didn't find a lot of reporting info directly on the point you've raised.

 

The wet surface on the aircon cooling vanes probably acts at a scrubber filter. To asses how big an effect the wet surface have Vs. the filtrete sheets, you could do a 3rd test and run the aircon just in fan mode, without any cooling.

 

Thanks for the test anyway. We don't have an air purifier in the bed room, but the air felt clean with the aircon on. Your test seem to confirm this.

[kuma]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Chaing Mai City News has linked to an interesting PDF document report by Greenpeace that tracks the PM2.5 pollution levels in different Thai cities, including several locations in BKK, during 2014, 2015 and the first six months of 2016. Well worth reading...

 

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/greenpeace-publishes-city-rankings-pm2-5-thailand-first-time/

 

greenpeace.or.th/s/right-to-clean-air/PM2.5CityRankingsREV.pdf

 

Great read, thanks for posting

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Took the test with the Filtrete sheets on my bedroom air con another step this morning.

 

Over the night, I ran my bedroom air con on medium with the Filtrete sheets covering 100% of the AC's filters, and also ran my Sharp air purifier on low. When I woke up around 10 am today, my sensor was reading a pretty constant 7 mcg.

 

So then at 10, I turned off my Sharp purifier and just kept my bedroom AC running on medium with the Filtrete sheets over its own permanent filters. In the two hours since then, the sensor readings have pretty much doubled to the 13-14 mcg levels, but don't appear to be climbing any higher than that as more time passes.

 

So the implication here is that yes, the Filtrete sheets when in reasonably new condition and covering the entire AC filters DO help reduce PM2.5 when used without an air purifier. But likewise, using the Filtrete sheets alone doesn't keep the PM2.5 levels as low as they would be with the purifier...

 

Some other things to try -- running the AC alone without the Filtrete strips, and running the purifier alone without the Filtrete augmented air con.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Usually, the PM2.5 readings around BKK are pretty similar, as you might expect. But this morning, that's not the case for some reason, with my go-to Chula sensor showing an oddly low AQI number (yellow 93) when others in the area are MUCH higher... I hope no one is monkeying with the sensors....

 

[lopburi3]

Much of Bangkok got hit by heavy rain at 0500 this morning (radar is still stuck on that frame) so would have expected lower readings today.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The earlier map I posted was readings as of 11 am. Now this one below is at of 2 pm.  I don't think it's raining in these areas now or lately... that would account for the variations below.

 

I mention it because I've been watching these readings for weeks now, and rarely see this large a level of divergence within BKK. And oddly, it comes right on the heels of the big kerfuffle in the news yesterday about the smog levels in Chiang Mai.

 

 

BTW, the day has gotten a lot worse outside heading into this afternoon.

 

The red 153 now is the Chula Hospital sensor, current as of 2 pm.

 

One of the yellow 75s is listed as being the Govt Public Relations Office, current as of 1 pm.

 

That variation between those two locations and their reported readings is not a function of any rain early this morning.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sukhumvitneon]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Much of Bangkok got hit by heavy rain at 0500 this morning (radar is still stuck on that frame) so would have expected lower readings today.

 

The pollution is insane.

Edited March 27, 2018 by sukhumvitneon

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Took the trash outside today at 4:45 pm, and left my PM2.5 sensor outside for a while... on my quiet Asoke-Nana area soi with very little vehicle traffic at 500+ meters away from the main road.

 

Outside: 56 mcg - 151 red/unhealthy on the AQI scale

 

Inside with the Air Purifier on: 8 mcg - 33 green/good on the AQI scale

 

Good to see that my sensor reading pretty well matches the various official 150+ AQI readings around BKK this afternoon. Bad that anyone has to breath that air.

 

[balo]

On 3/27/2018 at 4:53 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

official 150+ AQI readings around BKK this afternoon.

Why are there no official ones in Pattaya City ? I only find Chonburi on the map . 

It can get really bad at times in the city centre . 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, balo said:

Why are there no official ones in Pattaya City ? I only find Chonburi on the map . 

It can get really bad at times in the city centre .

 

Yes, because, this is Thailand, and they've been very slow to install a comprehensive network of air pollution monitoring stations around the country. And of those that they have, an even smaller number currently measure PM2.5, which here is the worst single air pollutant problem (the rest only measure PM10 instead).

 

One solution to that, of course, is to do what I did, and shell out $40 or $50 to buy a PM2.5 sensor for your home. An air purifier also would be a good thing. But if anyone doesn't want to take that step, just installing Filtrete sheets over your regular air con filters can do a lot to reduce pollution indoors assuming you keep your windows closed.

 

I know, there's a tendency to want to Open the Windows and Let the Fresh Air In!!!!  But knowledge is power. And since I got into this in the past two months, there have been virtually NO days in Bangkok when the air outside has been of good enough quality that I'd want to let that (unfiltered air) into my home. It's a mindset change that takes some getting used to.

 

The one good thing is, perhaps: because you are along the coast, I think the air pollution levels tend to be lower than those of inland cities like BKK or elsewhere. Right now, for example, the AQI readings for BKK are all at the top end of moderate or lower end of unhealthy for sensitive people, and that's AFTER it rained this morning. So it really would be good to know just where Pattaya proper stands in that range.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[utalkin2me]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, because, this is Thailand, and they've been very slow to install a comprehensive network of air pollution monitoring stations around the country. And of those that they have, an even smaller number currently measure PM2.5, which here is the worst single air pollutant problem (the rest only measure PM10 instead).

 

One solution to that, of course, is to do what I did, and shell out $40 or $50 to buy a PM2.5 sensor for your home. An air purifier also would be a good thing. But if anyone doesn't want to take that step, just installing Filtrete sheets over your regular air con filters can do a lot to reduce pollution indoors assuming you keep your windows closed.

 

I know, there's a tendency to want to Open the Windows and Let the Fresh Air In!!!!  But knowledge is power. And since I got into this in the past two months, there have been virtually NO days in Bangkok when the air outside has been of good enough quality that I'd want to let that (unfiltered air) into my home. It's a mindset change that takes some getting used to.

 

The one good thing is, perhaps: because you are along the coast, I think the air pollution levels tend to be lower than those of inland cities like BKK or elsewhere. Right now, for example, the AQI readings for BKK are all at the top end of moderate or lower end of unhealthy for sensitive people, and that's AFTER it rained this morning. But when I look at a reading for Sri Racha, it's showing good air with a 32 AQI, and Chonburi's showing 22. So it really would be good to know just where Pattaya proper stands in that range.

 

 

I wouldn’t mind trying the Filtrete sheets. I take it I cut them to size? Any recommended vendor where I’ll be able to find them? Thanks.