Honeymoon Period Over for Kamala Harris Polls Show Tight Race

[Thaidream]

The 'wall' may slow down some illegals but the real solution is not to spend $20 Billion on this project but to pass a real Immigration bill that will legalise people who want to come to America to work and where America needs workers.  At present- there is no real guest worker programs that provide temporary Visas to non Americans to work in the fields; construct labor or processing plants.  That is why people continue to come- to make money.

Once people get a legal Visa to come- they won't head to the border and then the agents can concentrate on those who would come for criminal purposes.

 

I seriously doubt that either the Republicans or Dems will agree to an Immigration overhaul or even a budget-  they will pass another continuing resolution that includes funding for border security - a 'wall' and include a provision to take care of the 'Dreamers'. The continuing resolution might have a few other enhancements such as more for the military but no real  immigration bill or a real budget.

 

Hell- we can't even reach an agreement on much of anything on this Board and none of us are running for anything- the real truth is that the American Government is dysfunctional and the whole system needs an overhaul- and neither Trump, the Republicans or the Dems have any real plan to do it.  Too much greed and self interest and  the losers- the American people.

[Rhys]

...45 be brinin LAVAR as he boy...

[Trouble]

9 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The sad part about all this is that the US has had no real budget in place for 3 years. The Us exists on a continuing resolution rather than a new budget being debated and agreed upon each year.

Now we have Donald Trump who is using the status of young illegals brought to America when they were below the age of actual consent as a wedge to get a $21 Million border wall.  Almost 90% of all Americans want DACA extended or a bill to legalise these people.  There is also the Children's healthcare act which has been expired for months and needs to be extended by Congress- also being held hostage to this ridiculous wall.

Most Americans are opposed to the wall and everyone knows Mexico will never pay for it.  If Trump tries and add on tariffs or tax Mexican  exports to the Us- Mexico will simply take its business to other countries and American business will suffer.

This whole issue shows the utter disdain Trump has for  most Americans- he simply wants to win.  The cost of a border wall of $21 Billion would provide a lot of healthcare to sick Americans and also education.

We already have Immigration agents deporting people who have been in America 30 and 40 years who have committed no crimes; worked and paid taxes.

There is something radically wrong with American and it starts with Donald Trump who has absolutely no vision of what really would make America a great country.

I think the main point in this whole issue is not so much the illegals that are in the US now but what happens in the future.  If someone does not hold the current illegals as hostage, the Democrats will never come to the table. We had an amnesty in the 1980's under Reagan and here we are again with another estimated 12 million here illegally. It's a shame it has to be done this way but in reality the American people do want the situation to have a permanent fix. Why should we go through this every 10/20/30 years? There is much wrong with the immigration system in the US and the lottery, chain migration, and border security are all part of the mix.  If a 21 billion dollar wall stops even part of it then it's money well spent.  Many people often tout that the illegals work hard and contribute to the economy and for many that is true.  But what no one talks about is the actual cost to the American taxpayer, in education, health care, and welfare provided. My view is that if the Democrats wanted to really fix the problems and give Trump the changes to help solve future problems, Trump would sign the DACA thing is a heart beat.  

 

Another problem I see in this whole DACA issue is that preference is being given to one class of illegal immigrant vs. another.  If you bring your minor child you get a probably pass as a parent too, whereas if you enter illegally without a child, you are screwed.  

 

While I have great sympathy for most of the people that have illegally come to the US for a better life, and am willing to see another amnesty as a fix, I don't want to see every illegal immigrant who comes to the US get a free pass every 10/20 years. 

[isaanbanhou]

If there are no "illegals" in America who will wash the dishes and cars, who will cut the lawns and look after the children?

 

The American economy thrives on the backs of undocumented workers, go to any Home Depot, it isn t white Americans standing outside looking for day labour jobs. Nope the white guys are the ones hiring the undocumented to make a profit off of.

 

[boomerangutang]

 

One way to look at the problems within the 495 beltway:  It's quite likely that, in a year's time, Dems will control both the house and senate.  

In that scenario, two basic things will happen: 

#1  Trump will be impeached (if he hasn't resigned or died by then)

and

#2   Sensible legislation will have a better chance of passing.

 

Patience is needed.  That's why no Democratic Congresspeople are formally requesting impeachment proceeding get started.  It's because they know there are too many stuck-in-the-mud sheeple Republicans who will support Trump no matter what.  Next year, it should be a different scenario.   Reasonable people can hope that Trump will not do too much damage between now and then - though DACA folks aren't going to be sleeping soundly.  If Trumpistas get their way, armed police will go and forcibly arrest hundreds of thousands of 'Dreamers' and try to ship them out of the US.  It's lose-lose for Republicans, when that happens. 

 

Maybe a good time to invest in companies which make shackles and handcuffs.

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I am against a useless border wall that costs $21 Billion- I will accept a  barrier in some places and enhanced security -  cost should be about $1 Billon. 

Even $21 Billion is a low estimate.

When Trump first started yelling about the wall, he said it would cost 6 billion.

A couple of weeks later, it was 9 billion.  then 12 billion,  then 15 billion, ....and so on.

A more realistic estimate is in the 30 billion range. 

Federal gov't always spends much more than regular people would pay.

Example, 1 gallon of gas, purchased by the feds, for troops in the M.East (where locals produce the stuff) is upwards from $60.    Air conditioning a few hundred tents, in the Middle East, is about $42,000 per minute, paid by US taxpayers, so soldiers won't break into a sweat on a hot day.

The cost for the wall doesn't even equal the cost to maintain and man the wall.  So, a $34 billion wall will wind up costing about $80 billion over the course of 25 years.

 

[lannarebirth]

15 hours ago, Becker said:

Because the deplorables will continue saying "Thank you Sir, may I have another" as long as they believe the man-child actually wants to MAWA.

 

 

 

That reminds me of that great Anais Nin quote:

 

" We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. "

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Also this bit, security is rarely about stopping 100% forever - its about increasing the time it takes to penetrate whatever you are looking to get into. That extra time allows border security to actually GET THERE. 20 foot wall with a huge ball on top, topped with concertina wire and lined with infrared cameras and all the bells & whistles and you are gonna sit there and try to tell me that isnt a formidable boundary? That thing would give even the fittest people a REAL hard time to penetrate, even with a 20' foot ladder. 

 

Its a package deal. Besides man just watch this and tell me who the moron is. 

 

 

its about increasing the time it takes to penetrate whatever you are looking to get into. That extra time allows border security to actually GET THERE.

Everyone knows that. Some people pretend they don't know that because they just hate Trump and don't want him to get anything at all, so make up stuff they think sounds good, even if they know it's untrue.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Thaidream said:

 

 

 

 

Hell- we can't even reach an agreement on much of anything on this Board and none of us are running for anything- the real truth is that the American Government is dysfunctional and the whole system needs an overhaul- and neither Trump, the Republicans or the Dems have any real plan to do it.  Too much greed and self interest and  the losers- the American people.

Well, we agree on something.

As long as lobbyists run the government and candidates need money from vested interests to get elected nothing will change.

Ban lobbyists, ban politicians from taking employment with companies for 10 years after retiring and fund election campaigns by taxpayers with a cap, and it MIGHT go some way to reducing the corruption.

[ToS2014]

On 1/24/2018 at 9:24 AM, Credo said:

Not even a close comparison.   You may live in Thailand, but you are only one step above a tourist.   If you live in the states and you are not a citizen, sponsoring a relative is not usually possible and if you do, you must show adequate financial resources to support them.   Oh, and they still have to wait in the queue, they have to be interviewed and meet all the criteria for entry and they can be rejected either at the embassy or after arrival.   Etc., etc., etc.   

 

I would like to see the list of approvals vs those "....rejected either at the embassy or after arrival.   Etc., etc., etc."  

 

My point is that IF I were to bring my Thai spouse to America it would be vastly different (not even a close comparison) to how I am treated here and how she would be treated by the US gov't. I'm not complaining on how I am treated here, just attempting to imply to all those who believe America treats illegals/DACA/DREAMers/ etc... with such disdain, well, in my view they are treated very well; too well in my humble opinion.  But, of course, there are those that feel America should treat them well given all their hardships in their journey to the sweet milk uncle sugar serves up.  Shoot in reality I don't know why the EU and USA isn't overpopulated to the point of collapse with undocumented individuals, (illegals is such a harsh word to describe those so worthy of benefits abroad), residing within their respective state borders.

[mrwebb8825]

15 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Even $21 Billion is a low estimate.

When Trump first started yelling about the wall, he said it would cost 6 billion.

A couple of weeks later, it was 9 billion.  then 12 billion,  then 15 billion, ....and so on.

A more realistic estimate is in the 30 billion range. 

Federal gov't always spends much more than regular people would pay.

Example, 1 gallon of gas, purchased by the feds, for troops in the M.East (where locals produce the stuff) is upwards from $60.    Air conditioning a few hundred tents, in the Middle East, is about $42,000 per minute, paid by US taxpayers, so soldiers won't break into a sweat on a hot day.

The cost for the wall doesn't even equal the cost to maintain and man the wall.  So, a $34 billion wall will wind up costing about $80 billion over the course of 25 years.

 

Got any facts to back up those figures?

[mrwebb8825]

16 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 

One way to look at the problems within the 495 beltway:  It's quite likely that, in a year's time, Dems will control both the house and senate.  

In that scenario, two basic things will happen: 

#1  Trump will be impeached (if he hasn't resigned or died by then)

and

#2   Sensible legislation will have a better chance of passing.

 

Patience is needed.  That's why no Democratic Congresspeople are formally requesting impeachment proceeding get started.  It's because they know there are too many stuck-in-the-mud sheeple Republicans who will support Trump no matter what.  Next year, it should be a different scenario.   Reasonable people can hope that Trump will not do too much damage between now and then - though DACA folks aren't going to be sleeping soundly.  If Trumpistas get their way, armed police will go and forcibly arrest hundreds of thousands of 'Dreamers' and try to ship them out of the US.  It's lose-lose for Republicans, when that happens. 

 

Maybe a good time to invest in companies which make shackles and handcuffs.

Weren't you one of the head cheerleaders about 14 months ago that decreed; "Patients, just you wait and see. Trump will never get elected."? 

[Scott]

8 hours ago, ToS2014 said:

I would like to see the list of approvals vs those "....rejected either at the embassy or after arrival.   Etc., etc., etc."  

 

My point is that IF I were to bring my Thai spouse to America it would be vastly different (not even a close comparison) to how I am treated here and how she would be treated by the US gov't. I'm not complaining on how I am treated here, just attempting to imply to all those who believe America treats illegals/DACA/DREAMers/ etc... with such disdain, well, in my view they are treated very well; too well in my humble opinion.  But, of course, there are those that feel America should treat them well given all their hardships in their journey to the sweet milk uncle sugar serves up.  Shoot in reality I don't know why the EU and USA isn't overpopulated to the point of collapse with undocumented individuals, (illegals is such a harsh word to describe those so worthy of benefits abroad), residing within their respective state borders.

I think I can answer some of your questions, although I don't have current information.   Years ago, I worked in an Embassy program and one of the responsibilities was rejection review.   At that time, the rejection rate was very high.   More people were rejected than approved for tourist visas.   Rejection rates for those wishing to immigrate were less hard to track because they frequently not an outright rejection.   They were rejected because paperwork was missing or questions needed to be answered (such as a paper trail of why a name was changed -- something rather common in Thailand), or financial documents were incomplete or suspect.  

 

A close friend is planning a 3 week vacation in the US.   She has never been to the US, so she applied for a visa, did all the paperwork, went in for the interview and was accepted.   She was, however, quite nervous because the 5 people in front of her were all rejected.  

 

Dreamers is a broader term than those who signed up for DACA.   DACA is a very specific program for those arriving under 16 years of age and arriving between specific dates.   They also must meet specific criteria about education, work and criminal behavior.  Those in DACA did not necessarily have a say in coming to the US, they were brought as children.  

 

The current way laws are written does not allow for someone to adjust their status if they arrived illegally.   DACA simply allows them to remain and, as the name suggests, Defers any action such as deportation.   It also allows them to work. 

 

I don't know many people who somehow think the DACA people are being mistreated.   Some advocate for an amnesty and path for citizenship for all Dreamers and DACA recipients (without criminal records), others want a more hard line approach.  

 

 

[simple1]

13 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Got any facts to back up those figures?

Current cost estimates are only for the first phase of the wall and estimated up to  US$33billion. Currently total cost for completion varies from US50 billion to US70 billion, plus there are as yet final estimates for land acquisition, court costs (even at this stage approx 70 outstanding Court cases) etc etc. In addition Trump's claims of crime rates by migrants as one of the justifications for the Wall have been thoroughly debunked, more than 600K per annum illegal migrants arriving by air etc. Numerous Trump claims are erroneous - he is of course famous for deliberate lying and broadcasting  misinformation at a rate of around seven per day.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/essay/the-wall-the-real-costs-of-a-barrier-between-the-united-states-and-mexico/

Edited January 25, 2018 by simple1

[wayned]

On 1/24/2018 at 6:03 AM, webfact said:

government estimates are that it could cost over $21 billion.

how can anybody give an estimate when the "wall" is totally undefined?  The border is a little over 2000 miles, but 1250 miles of it from El Paso to the gulf of Mexico is the Rio Grande river.  How do you build a wall there.  The river is used by both Mexico and the US for irrigation and recreation and is navigable north of the delta.  Is the wall going to be built in the middle of the river?  He can't build it on the Mexico side and if he builds it on the US side he will eliminate the use of the river by the US.  He needs to come up with a detailed plan of exactly what the 21 million will buy and present it to the people and STOP calling it "the wall".