Teaching in Thailand over 60?

[My Thai Life]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I can only speak from my own experience of TEFL in Thailand. Although the majority of my students are Thai, there are regularly Japanese, Chinese and occasionally Russian students. This is not unusual in language schools.

Fair point. It's not unusual in language schools in NES countries, in fact it's the norm and that's why/how the ESL method evolved.

 

I'd be interested to know what the stats are for language schools across Bkk. If you're teaching in a corprate class for a multinational there will be a variety of nationalities, at an intermediate + level, adults of course, and the standard ESL methodology would work well.

 

But for the vast majority of English classes in Thailand, inside and outside of language schools, the ESL approach is simply inappropriate and not particularly effective; but it's the only one most farangs know how to use, and in many cases it's the only one they know about. This is the dire state of farang EFL professionalism in Thailand.

 

Despite what I said about CELTA, it's a useful course, I use it as the basis for my teacher-training courses. It's just not designed for TEFL.

[Andrew108]

Wait, so CELTA is not designed for TEFL? And you train teachers? Incredible. 

[My Thai Life]

30 minutes ago, Andrew108 said:

Wait, so CELTA is not designed for TEFL? And you train teachers? Incredible.

Correct, CELTA was not designed for TEFL. It was designed for TESL.

 

It's clear that many farang "teachers" in Thailand are unaware of the difference. And that probably explains why most are so ineffective. Just one little letter, but such a big difference.

Edited October 4, 2018 by My Thai Life

[brewsterbudgen]

Correct, CELTA was not designed for TEFL. It was designed for TESL.
 
It's clear that many farang "teachers" in Thailand are unaware of the difference. And that probably explains why most are so ineffective. Just one little letter, but such a big difference.

Cambridge should perhaps sort out their CELTA website as it refers to the course being designed for TEFL and TESOL, but not TESL. At the end of the day, the acronyms are less important than the competence, or otherwise, of the TEFL/TESL/TESOL/farang teacher!

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[Andrew108]

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Correct, CELTA was not designed for TEFL. It was designed for TESL.

 

It's clear that many farang "teachers" in Thailand are unaware of the difference. And that probably explains why most are so ineffective. Just one little letter, but such a big difference.

No. TEFL stands for Teaching English as a Foreign Language. Of course CELTA is designed to give teachers the skills to do just that. TEFL is taught in countries where the primary language is not English. So, TEFL is taught in Thailand.

TESL on the otherhand is taught to students in countries where the primary language is English, but whose mother tongue is different. 

You should know the difference. Anyway I find your posts inaccurate and overly negative. I’m going to put you on mute. 

[The manic]

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Correct, CELTA was not designed for TEFL. It was designed for TESL.

 

It's clear that many farang "teachers" in Thailand are unaware of the difference. And that probably explains why most are so ineffective. Just one little letter, but such a big difference.

TEFL and TESL are synonymous. 

[My Thai Life]

39 minutes ago, The manic said:

TEFL and TESL are synonymous. 

TEFL and TESL are quite different, evolving for different situations and needs, and requiring different methods. The fact that people who consider themselves to be English teachers don't understand this simply illustrates how little such people know about their "profession", and how little they are interestd in professional development.

 

Any serious handbook of ELT will help you understand the difference.

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Cambridge should perhaps sort out their CELTA website as it refers to the course being designed for TEFL and TESOL, but not TESL. At the end of the day, the acronyms are less important than the competence, or otherwise, of the TEFL/TESL/TESOL/farang teacher!

Cambridge publishing is a big business that makes a huge amount of money from Celta training - they are not independent in this debate. Celta is an entry-level pre-service training course, that's all; it is not an advanced course. I know the Celta material intimately as I use it as a core for some of my teacher training.

 

The different acronyms reflect real differences in background and approach. Any serious teacher would explore these differences.

 

These are verifiable facts.

[Andrew108]

28 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Cambridge publishing is a big business that makes a huge amount of money from Celta training - they are not independent in this debate. Celta is an entry-level pre-service training course, that's all; it is not an advanced course. I know the Celta material intimately as I use it as a core for some of my teacher training.

 

The different acronyms reflect real differences in background and approach. Any serious teacher would explore these differences.

 

These are verifiable facts.

You shouldn’t be doing teacher training. You don’t know the difference between TEFL and TESL and you downplay the value of CELTA - whist disparaging those teachers who aren’t interested in professional development. 

So the facts: The CELTA is a post-grad level 5 certificate. TEFL is taught in Thailand and not TESL. You have an extremely negative and demoralizing view of the value of foreign teachers. 

[My Thai Life]

4 minutes ago, Andrew108 said:

You shouldn’t be doing teacher training. You don’t know the difference between TEFL and TESL and you downplay the value of CELTA - whist disparaging those teachers who aren’t interested in professional development. 

So the facts: The CELTA is a post-grad level 5 certificate. TEFL is taught in Thailand and not TESL. You have an extremely negative and demoralizing view of the value of foreign teachers. 

I haven't downplayed the value of the CELTA; I've described it as it is, an entry-level pre-service training course - ask Scott Thornbury or Peter Watkins who wrote it. The DELTA would give you exemption from 20-30% of some Masters courses, but not the CELTA.

 

The CELTA is an ESL course, not designed for EFL environments.

 

Yes I do have a negative view of a large swathe of farang teachers in Thailand, commensurate with their racist views on Thailand.

 

Equally, there are many excellent farang teachers in Thailand, but I guess they're too busy and interested in their work and professional development to spend time on forums.

[My Thai Life]

 

55 minutes ago, Andrew108 said:

So the facts: The CELTA is a post-grad level 5 certificate. TEFL is taught in Thailand and not TESL. You have an extremely negative and demoralizing view of the value of foreign teachers. 

I want to come back on this, because a lot of people here might actually believe it. From Cambridge's site:

 

"This is the same level as a foundation degree or a higher education diploma – however whilst the levels are the same, they should not be considered equivalent due to their content differences." The main difference being one is a month long and the others are 1-4 years long. 

 

re my "negative view". Have a look at one or two of the other current threads. "Teachers" (unqualified ones) working without work permits. Would you accept illegal immigrants doing this in your country? I wouldn't, and I don't support it here either. If that's being negative, sure I'm negative.

Edited October 4, 2018 by My Thai Life

[The manic]

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

TEFL and TESL are quite different, evolving for different situations and needs, and requiring different methods. The fact that people who consider themselves to be English teachers don't understand this simply illustrates how little such people know about their "profession", and how little they are interestd in professional development.

 

Any serious handbook of ELT will help you understand the difference.

Teaching English as Foreign Language and Teaching English as a Second Language are effectively the same. The materials for the latter in the UK for teaching immigrants, are based on 'Headway' which is a standard TEFL tome. Some TESL accents situational English but TEFL covers this on the assumption that foreigners will be visiting English speaking countries and need to carry out day to day tasks.