Thinking of retiring

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, yooper said:

correct.  A Thai who became an american citizen (at least 40 yrs ago) IS technically a foreigner by virtue of their foreign passport, and must re-apply for Thai citizenship.  I thought that was what we were doing  (re-applying) when my wife's name was added to her sisters house registration. 

Being registered in a house book confirms she has Thai citizenship/nationality. Somebody at that Amphoe is playing games by not issuing a ID card. All that is needed for her to apply for the Thai ID card is the house book registry.

[sumrit]

This is the current procedure for obtaining a new Thai ID card and passport on the UK Thai Embassy website.Other European Embassies offer a similar service and I would think all Thai Embassies have the same/similar facilities. As said before, Chicago DOESN'T have an Embassy, it only has a CONSULATE. They are not the same thing. You must go to the Thai Embassy to get the full services provided.

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/82036-Thai-National-ID-(Renew-an-ID-Card).html

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/82038-Thai-Passport.html

[glegolo]

I dont want to get involved in this stuff with Yooper, as he gives so much misleading info. In that respect, thanks to Ubonjoe trying to correct it... 

 

 However addressed to the OP. I have never been to Chiang Mai but I have read here and elsewhere time after time after time for years now, how damn troublesam it is to deal with the immigration-officies up in Chiang Mai.

 

Going up in the middle of the night for queue, only to find out at openening-hours 08.30, that your number is 343..... On top of this, the Chiang Mai immigration makes up their own rules and regulations, making us falangs crazy of frustration.

 

never in my life I would ever move to that hell-hole on planet earth...

 

Glegolo

[BritTim]

9 minutes ago, yooper said:

I'd hope you  will ague your opinion at the Pak Nam District office and straighten them out.

I have had no need to argue such matters for a Thai spouse. However, my 29-year-old Thai daughter, when I got her UK nationality, did not lose her Thai nationality (although the immigration office was referring to provisions in ancient versions of the Thai nationality act until I straightened them out on the matter).

[yooper]

6 minutes ago, sumrit said:

This is the current procedure for obtaining a new Thai ID card and passport on the UK Thai Embassy website.Other European Embassies offer a similar service and I would think all Thai Embassies have the same/similar facilities. As said before, Chicago DOESN'T have an Embassy, it only has a CONSULATE. They are not the same thing. You must go to the Thai Embassy to get the full services provided.

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/82036-Thai-National-ID-(Renew-an-ID-Card).html

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/82038-Thai-Passport.html

Interesting, but those links do not address 'foreign' non-Thai naturalization / citizenship which is central to the refusal I was given. It seems to be for  Thai's who need renewals/replacements, not British citizens.  I do suspect we could report the old ID card as lost and perhaps start over again at a different district office but after 2 months of run-around I am finished with it. We have only spent a week at the beach, are headed back this afternoon and putting all this stuff behind us.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, sumrit said:

As said before, Chicago DOESN'T have an Embassy, it only has a CONSULATE. They are not the same thing. You must go to the Thai Embassy to get the full services provided.

Not correct the Chicago consulate is a official Thai consulate (same for the ones in Los Angeles and New York) and can do everything that the embassy can do. You are confusing official consulates with honorary consulates.

[yooper]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I have had no need to argue such matters for a Thai spouse. However, my 29-year-old Thai daughter, when I got her UK nationality, did not lose her Thai nationality (although the immigration office was referring to provisions in ancient versions of the Thai nationality act until I straightened them out on the matter).

Now that IS interesting, but it is NOT the immigration folks who issue ID cards, so more confusion.  With an ID card a passport is no problem so I've been told.  I just don't care any more, we need more vacation time in places other than govt offices.

[sumrit]

Just now, yooper said:

Interesting, but those links do not address 'foreign' non-Thai naturalization / citizenship which is central to the refusal I was given. It seems to be for  Thai's who need renewals/replacements, not British citizens.  I do suspect we could report the old ID card as lost and perhaps start over again at a different district office but after 2 months of run-around I am finished with it. We have only spent a week at the beach, are headed back this afternoon and putting all this stuff behind us.

My ex wife and at least five of my friends with Thai wives use these facilities (the last one being just two weeks ago) and I can guarantee they are ALL UK citizens with UK passports because I personally helped all of them with their indefinite leave, subsequent British Citizenship and UK passport applications. 

[yooper]

Just now, sumrit said:

My ex wife and at least five of my friends with Thai wives use these facilities (the last one being just two weeks ago) and I can guarantee they are ALL UK citizens with UK passports because I personally helped all of them with their indefinite leave, subsequent British Citizenship and UK passport applications. 

fine, do they all hold valid Thai ID cards?  All things are possible with the ID card, our problem was the refusal to issue one.  Not a problem any more, we are happy with the 10 yr visas since we will only spend 7 months a year here.

[sumrit]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not correct the Chicago consulate is a official Thai consulate (same for the ones in Los Angeles and New York) and can do everything that the embassy can do. You are confusing official consulates with honorary consulates.

OK, but I looked on the Chicago Consulate web site and it doesn't offer those facilities but the Washington Embassy does.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, sumrit said:

OK, but I looked on the Chicago Consulate web site and it doesn't offer those facilities but the Washington Embassy does.

I suspect you were looking at the English version of the site. On the Thai language pages you will find it. There are many embassies and official consulates that only have info about Thai passports, ID cards and etc in Thai.

Thai ID requirements are here: http://www.thaiconsulatechicago.org/pages-thai_id.html

[sumrit]

Yes, they do now, but two did have ID cards more than a year out of date when they first renewed them in the UK, while my ex wife first renewed both her ID card and passport in Thailand without a problem when it was nearly three years out of date. On that occasion she had entered/exited Thailand on her UK passport. (The next time she travelled she had to carry her old Thai passport as well to show an exit stamp in a Thai passport. This was possibly about 15 years ago and I understand entry/exit can be more strict now)

[sumrit]

I suspect you were looking at the English version of the site. On the Thai language pages you will find it. There are many embassies and official consulates that only have info about Thai passports, ID cards and etc in Thai.

Thai ID requirements are here: http://www.thaiconsulatechicago.org/pages-thai_id.html

Sorry,  yes I was. The info was available in English on the UK website so I assumed it would be the same in the American websites (I think you speak a version of English over there don't you?)

[anon789561]

strange thread. can't work it out. all I will add is that if your wife is thai, she will always be thai and entitled to a passport in the same way my mrs is who's had british citizenship for years. can't understand why it has been difficult. by the way OP, you'll get a hell of a nice place in CM for 2000 dollars a month. enjoy that

[yooper]

9 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Yes, they do now, but two did have ID cards more than a year out of date when they first renewed them in the UK, while my ex wife first renewed both her ID card and passport in Thailand without a problem when it was nearly three years out of date. On that occasion she had entered/exited Thailand on her UK passport. (The next time she travelled she had to carry her old Thai passport as well to show an exit stamp in a Thai passport. This was possibly about 15 years ago and I understand entry/exit can be more strict now)

Having one renewed is a bit different than having one replaced that was issued over 40 years ago.  We figured (and so did the Thai Consulate in Chicago) that her expired Thai passports would do the trick.  They said "just go there and show them you are still alive".  Don't take anything for granted in Thailand, lesson learned. I have given the facts of my experience, the opinions here do not change the facts. Anything can happen here. That doesn't mean it is in compliance with the law.

[yooper]

2 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

strange thread. can't work it out. all I will add is that if your wife is thai, she will always be thai and entitled to a passport in the same way my mrs is who's had british citizenship for years. can't understand why it has been difficult. by the way OP, you'll get a hell of a nice place in CM for 2000 dollars a month. enjoy that

strange indeed.  But the only real benefit for us would be that she wouldn't need to check in every 90 days, and we could buy property. If the online stuff works no big deal and we don't need/want to buy any property.  We have a nice but small, one room apartment in a 1yr old building (all new plumbing, a/c, great security system, covered parking, cable tv&internet) for  under $200/month.  I'm sure we will hit $200 before long the way the baht is being manipulated.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Sorry,  yes I was. The info was available in English on the UK website so I assumed it would be the same in the American websites 

Even the London embassy website has a few things hidden away that is only in Thai.

I think they do it in Thai since they assume most people looking for the info will be able to read Thai.

[yooper]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Complete rubbish you were told. There is no such 5 year rule. Immigration as nothing to do with Thai nationality issues. That is function of the interior ministry. Most issues can be handled at the local Amphoe.

lol, the local Amphoe denied her ID card, not immigration.

[anon789561]

Just now, yooper said:

lol, the local Amphoe denied her ID card, not immigration.

but why? did they say?

[sumrit]

3 minutes ago, yooper said:

lol, the local Amphoe denied her ID card, not immigration.

I've known our local Amphur to say they couldn't do something they were required to do on more than one occasion because is was 'too much trouble'. Did you just accept what they said without querying it?

[yooper]

sister is picking us up in a few minutes we are off to the beach.  Maybe by next time I can check in an actual lawyer will give some perspective. All things are possible in Thailand, or not.

[yooper]

9 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

but why? did they say?

yes, the immigration law quoted above.

[Classic Ray]

3 hours ago, yooper said:

Just finished going thru the whole mess. I am 71, wife is 67.   We were told by numerous sources including the Thai Embassy in Chicago, US embassy in Bangkok, and a couple of Thai Immigration people that my wife could regain her Thai citizenship but it is not true. If you move permanently to Thailand she may regain citizenship after 5 years but immigration laws here change quite frequently.  You can get a retirement visa quite easily and don't need a bank account to get it although you will want one for personal reasons I can discuss with you later if you wish.  You need to come into Thailand wth a Non Immigrant type O visa, not a tourist visa. After you arrive you make an appointment at the US embassy to execute a sworn affidavit that your monthly income is xxxxxx, it has to be greater than THB 65,000.  When you arrive, be sure your landlord reports your address to immigration, you will need that proof.  We came on a 1 yr O-visa to insure there was time to accomplish everything, we rented an apartment and have a permanent address.  

 

This is the template I followed, the only glitch was that it doesn't mention the proof of previous address reporting,  it was easily resolved.

http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/listof-documents-for-retirement-visa/

 

I highly recommend this immigration office, they are extremely friendly even  if they were mistaken that my wife should be able to regain her citizenship.  It turns out that is because she is a 'foreign citizen" (w/ foreign passport) who has a permanent residence outside of Thailand.  Exceptions can be made if a spouse dies and the Thai person returns to Thailand permanently but true knowledge among Thai 'officials' seems to be scarce.  

 

With a retirement visa, you still need to do a 'border run' once a year, and report your address every 90 days but apparently the reporting can now be done online, and an annual border run can be enjoyable and inexpensive. Upon re-entry you get another year permission to stay.... up to 10 years, who knows what new rules will be around by then?

 

Wrong term, it is not retirement visa but extension of the O or OA visa based on retirement. This can be extended innumerable times annually without border runs even after the original visa has expired. But you must purchase exit/re entry permits before you leave the country on any trip to keep the extension current, otherwise you need to get a new visa to base the extension on.

 

I would advise coming on an extended holiday on a tourist visa first to make sure this is really what you want to do, and can put up with the cultural differences and hassles. Will also give you the chance to sort out visa and passport issues. Personally I love Chiangmai, but traffic getting heavy. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Classic Ray

[anon789561]

Just now, yooper said:

yes, the immigration law quoted above.

i think you need to go back there and convince them. that's not right

[yooper]

3 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I've known our local Amphur to say they couldn't do something they were required to do on more than one occasion because is was 'too much trouble'. Did you just accept what they said without querying it?

no, we went thru it twice, the last time my brother in law got us a meeting with the head of the place 'upstairs'. He's the one who referred to the laws quoted above

[yooper]

1 minute ago, Classic Ray said:

Wrong term, it is not retirement vida but extension of the O or OA visa based on retirement. This can be extended innumerable times annually without border runs even after the original visa has expired. But you must purchase exit/re entry permits before you leave the country on any trip to keep the extension current, otherwise you need to get a new visa to base the extension on.

 

I would advise coming on an extended holiday on a tourist visa first to make sure this is really what you want to do, and can put up with the cultural differences and hassles. Will also give you the chance to sort out visa and passport issues. Personally I love Chiangmai, but traffic getting heavy. 

You obviously haven't read my earlier posts, I have a non-immigrant o visa.   Retirement visa is just a common term, I know about the extensions, am leaving the coutry to summer in the usa every year. No extension necessary.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, yooper said:

yes, the immigration law quoted above.

I assume you mean the nationality act that has nothing to do with immigration.

You must realize that the person at the Amphoe was ignorant when it came to the nationality acts latest revisions. More than likely some bureaucrat that has no clue about what they were talking about. 

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, yooper said:

With a retirement visa, you still need to do a 'border run' once a year, and report your address every 90 days but apparently the reporting can now be done online, and an annual border run can be enjoyable and inexpensive. Upon re-entry you get another year permission to stay.... up to 10 years, who knows what new rules will be around by then?

It's difficult to tell what you're talking about.  The one visa often called a retirement visa is the non-imm O-A which would have to be obtained in your home country, but I'm guessing you mean an extension of stay based on retirement and that is not a visa.

 

If you get an extension of stay based on retirement there is no need or reason to do a border run. I have an extension of stay based on retirement and have not left Thailand in more than 11 years.  You do need to go to an immigration office in Thailand each year to apply for an annual extension. That is usually a simple task, but doubt anyone would describe it as enjoyable or refreshing.

 

I have no idea what you mean by "up to 10 years." Many people, including me, have been here on retirement extensions longer than 10 years. The rules regarding extensions haven't changed materially in that time or much longer.

 

3 hours ago, yooper said:

I highly recommend this immigration office,

You don't get to choose the immigration office you use. You have to use the one that serves your residential address.

 

Much of what you have written in your post is either incorrect or confusing.  Probably best not to offer advice on something you clearly don't understand yourself.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Suradit69

[jimn]

Message to the OP. I do not post on topics like this because I do not know enough about the subject matter to add any value. As it looks like you are new to the forum you may be a bit confused by all the conflicting comments. All I do know is from many years reading this forum ( not posting). Is that the information given by Ubonjoe is normally 100% correct. BritTim is ok too. Please do not listen to ill informed comments from people like Yooper who gets his information from hearsay and out of date web pages. 

[Mattd]

@yooper Is your wife registered in a blue tabien bahn book? If she is then she is a Thai citizen and entitled to a Thai ID card and passport, of that there is absolutely no doubt, if the Amphur are telling you different then they are incorrect, the only persons that are allowed to be registered in a blue tabien bahn are Thai citizens and those foreigners who have PR status.

The Amphur would not be able to register her if she does not have the ID number etc.

Seek legal advice.

Oh and immigration do not issue passports, these are issued by MFA.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Mattd