UK spells out Brexit transition demands as pressure mounts on PM May

[aright]

7 hours ago, ckerr83 said:

The people didn't vote out, a super majority was never achieved - a global standard in constitutional changes. It was a mere 32% of the electorate that voted to leave. A fact that brainwashed  Brexiteers all too readily choose to ignore!

Rather than give a figure which you think supports your very weak argument and your comment which insults my intelligence why not give the figures which none of us can ignore

Leave---52%

Remain---48%

Turnout---72%

Sounds like a quorum to me 

 

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The sooner Hammond goes the better. People voted out.so get on with it and do the job properly. Hammond the Europhile is like a bad apple and will continue to be until he is thrown away.

Seems like s sensible cove to me! However he probably doesn't have 3 degrees and is therefore not so bright as some others?

[billd766]

9 hours ago, ckerr83 said:

The people didn't vote out, a super majority was never achieved - a global standard in constitutional changes. It was a mere 32% of the electorate that voted to leave. A fact that brainwashed  Brexiteers all too readily choose to ignore!

 

But it DID comply with the rules of the referendum, a fact that all brainwashed Remainers all too readily choose to ignore!

 

If you didn't like the way that the rules were set then YOU had the choice to complain to your MP BEFORE the vote was taken. After the vote was taken was too late.

 

The Remainers lost and like a bunch of crybabies they can't or won't accept the fact that they lost.

 

5 hours ago, ckerr83 said:

I rest my case, The average brexiteer is completely unaware of the facts, what a load of nonsense!! 

 

You have NO case and the nonsense is coming from you.

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, terryw said:

Hammond is a waste of space. Bring on the Mogg, the most honest politician in Parliament.

I assume you're being facetious?

[citybiker]

I assume you're being facetious?

JRM is more honest than most of them.

 

The fact he’s personal views are controversial have annoyed and upset many, just because he has a aristocratic style and personality shouldn’t distract from the valid arguments he’s made reference Brexit.

 

 

 

 

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[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Seems like s sensible cove to me! However he probably doesn't have 3 degrees and is therefore not so bright as some others?

What have a Philadelphia female soul group got to do with Brexit? You have been off air for a while. I was wondering "When will I see you again"?

[aright]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

JRM is more honest than most of them.

 

The fact he’s personal views are controversial have annoyed and upset many, just because he has a aristocratic style and personality shouldn’t distract from the valid arguments he’s made reference Brexit.

 

 

 

 

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Spot on. As he said yesterday:-

If Brexit’s opportunities are taken off the table, Mr Rees-Mogg warned, “then Brexit becomes only a damage-limitation exercise…if we are timid and cowering and terrified of the future then our children and theirs will judge us”: their verdict will make Belshazzar’s feast look like a vicarage tea-party.

[dunroaming]

3 hours ago, citybiker said:

 

I’m no big fan of Boris and agree his knee jerking comments are unhelpful, he’s an intelligent man but sometimes words fail me with him, likewise I’m also aware how disliked JRM is too.

Walking away would be an extreme last resort IMO & I don’t think either sides will go down that road, besides business lobbies from both sides will ensure both the EU & UK will form some kind of bespoke deal, even though I don’t trust Macron he says a bespoke deal can be achieved.

Another problem is PMTM successor once Brexit negotiations are complete is another scary thought, however the primary focus is ensuring Brexit is dealt with so the future generation can benefit and some form of pragmatic working relationship between the U.K./EU can continue, I suspect & hope an original blueprint may surface but we’ll just wait and see.


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Your post makes a lot of sense.  As you say the business lobbies from the UK and the EU will not let us end up with no deal.  It is whether the UK will agree to a deal in or the same as, the single market and customs agreement that will be the big factor.  If they do then it will mean the free movement of people and that is going to go down like a lead balloon with many.

[citybiker]

Prime focus points (trade)

SM & CU access will require mutual agreement, despite the hot air frothing from Guy & his other Brexit haters.

There’s bound to be flexibility in some form, the EU’s 4 pillars are an issue, depends if the EU want access to the CoL bad enough will depend on their movements regarding that.

A bespoke arrangement is achievable, given the proper mindset and damage limitation (and maybe heads knocking together) a deal is possible.


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[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, citybiker said:

JRM is more honest than most of them.

The fact he’s personal views are controversial have annoyed and upset many, just because he has a aristocratic style and personality shouldn’t distract from the valid arguments he’s made reference Brexit.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mogg's views are bombastic idiocy. No wonder he chimes so well with the uber hard brexit crowd.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Spot on. As he said yesterday:-

If Brexit’s opportunities are taken off the table, Mr Rees-Mogg warned, “then Brexit becomes only a damage-limitation exercise…if we are timid and cowering and terrified of the future then our children and theirs will judge us”: their verdict will make Belshazzar’s feast look like a vicarage tea-party.

Vapid hot air.

[aright]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Mogg's views are bombastic idiocy. No wonder he chimes so well with the uber hard brexit crowd.

Perhaps you could give us chapter and verse what views you disagree with then.  

[citybiker]

Mogg's views are bombastic idiocy. No wonder he chimes so well with the uber hard brexit crowd.

Personal views OR on Brexit?



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[smedly]

8 hours ago, citybiker said:

 

In parts we’ll agree to disagree, i don’t believe it’s a mistake & a watered down Brexit is as much a possibility as a hard Brexit is, both a media driven including political point scoring from mainly the EU to deter others, and until the negotiations are complete I’ll await anything further.

Remainer’s, including Hammond etc are still angry, annoyed and frustrated as the Brexit process isn’t a walk in the park, which leaving was never going to be easy.

Leavers, depending on individual’s POV about why they voted to leave, however leavers must understand, and most I know do, are aware of the complexity of leaving a 40+yr arrangement, patience is key along with a level head, I do wish JRM would join DD on the Brexit team in Brussels however that’s not going to happen so DD will battle with Barnier.

Lastly and overall, neither side are going to be completely happy and content either way, Brexit won’t be scrapped either that’s for sure.


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great post but again the point about lies being told, we have not left the EU yet, so the argument is pointless 

 

I wish I didn't have to keep making this point over an over - THE UK IS STILL IN THE EU

 

 

now when we leave then you may have some ground to point fingers and make accusations of lies 

 

 

 

and yes I know I replied to your post and not the dunroaming nonsense - a person who thinks we have left the EU already and is complaining about lies of an event that hasn't happened yet ............................ go figure 

 

Maybe it might support his case if he actually shared with everyone ......exactly what lies he keeps referring too

 

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the UK will thrive outside the EU...............that is just an opinion because that is all anyone can give at this point

[smedly]

12 hours ago, citybiker said:

 

HTH

 

I thought DD speech was fair but that’s it.

 

PMTM will rid Hammond at her earliest opportunity, during the Brexit talks isn’t the time, however TM knows she’s on borrowed time as nobody else wants the job.

 

JRM (despite hysteria over his personal comments) would be the ideal replacement seeing as DD has ruled himself out.

 

Time for the anti Brexit mafia to get a grip, and be united.

 

 

 

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Jacob Rees Mogg is a mega Brussels nightmare, he is a very tidy anad a very smart man and if he was Prime MInister of the UK right now he would have Barnier Tusk JUnker and the rest having to adjust their approach, some have Said David Davies was laughing in disrespect........... I actually think he was laughing ..................thank god someone has had the balls to call this shit for what it is

 

Why is JRMogg not in the cabinet ? very simple, they are scared of him, he calls a spade a spade and I believe along with many others that he would bring back on massive 

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

Jacob Rees Mogg is a mega Brussels nightmare, he is a very tidy anad a very smart man and if he was Prime MInister of the UK right now he would have Barnier Tusk JUnker and the rest having to adjust their approach, some have Said David Davies was laughing in disrespect........... I actually think he was laughing ..................thank god someone has had the balls to call this shit for what it is

 

Why is JRMogg not in the cabinet ? very simple, they are scared of him, he calls a spade a spade and I believe along with many others that he would bring back on massive 

 

Apparently, Blair's views on brexit can be separated from his history as a protected war criminal, but Jacob Rees Mogg's views on the same subject have to be tied in to his anti-abortion views! One thing I have learned from this debate is that the intellectual dishonesty of many remainers is breathtaking.

[chrissables]

17 hours ago, dunroaming said:

More to the point the people who voted leave did so based on lies, lies that have now been exposed but still they choose to stick with result.

 

Anyway we have been here many times before and still there is no progress.  Brexit is slowly being shown to be unworkable, at least unworkable to get a positive deal for Britain.  Davis continues to soften his approach to the point of giving himself a get out clause or two.  Will it be a two year transition period or maybe three?  His speech yesterday had so many holes in it they should call it a colander!

 

What lie, stated by who?

[ckerr83]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

But it DID comply with the rules of the referendum, a fact that all brainwashed Remainers all too readily choose to ignore!

 

If you didn't like the way that the rules were set then YOU had the choice to complain to your MP BEFORE the vote was taken. After the vote was taken was too late.

 

The Remainers lost and like a bunch of crybabies they can't or won't accept the fact that they lost.

 

 

You have NO case and the nonsense is coming from you.

Show me a legal document that clearly stated the voting threshold necessary to prompt the exit process and I'll accept the tabloid reading wisdom of gullible Brexiteers!!

 

The fact of the matter is that the referendum bill did not specify any resulting action or level of vote necessary - it was a non binding referendum; an opinion poll.

 

If Brexit happens then so be it but the brexit camp really should stop portraying this as "the will of the people", it represents the will of a small minority, centered in the northern parts of England and is far from democratic. 

 

Admittedly, capitalising the NO does make for a strong argument. 

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

Jacob Rees Mogg is a mega Brussels nightmare, he is a very tidy anad a very smart man and if he was Prime MInister of the UK right now he would have Barnier Tusk JUnker and the rest having to adjust their approach, some have Said David Davies was laughing in disrespect........... I actually think he was laughing ..................thank god someone has had the balls to call this shit for what it is

 

Why is JRMogg not in the cabinet ? very simple, they are scared of him, he calls a spade a spade and I believe along with many others that he would bring back on massive 

This would be the same Jacob Rees Mogg who is opposed to all abortion including cases of rape.

[MaeJoMTB]

27 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

This would be the same Jacob Rees Mogg who is opposed to all abortion including cases of rape.

I would have to agree, unless you were prepared to have every woman who wanted to kill her own baby crying 'rape'.

There's enough false claims of sexual misbehavior from around the world as it is.

 

Isn't this thread about Brexit?

IMHO the out deal should be the same as leaving any other club, you stop paying the fees .... end of.

And if Germany wants to start a war over it, we've beat them before.

Edited January 28, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[SheungWan]

34 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

This would be the same Jacob Rees Mogg who is opposed to all abortion including cases of rape.

 

8 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I would have to agree, unless you were prepared to have every woman who wanted to kill her own baby crying 'rape'.

There's enough false claims of sexual misbehavior from around the world as it is.

Isn't this thread about Brexit?

IMHO the out deal should be the same as leaving any other club, you stop paying the fees .... end of.

And if Germany wants to start a war over it, we've beat them before.

The very same Jacob Rees Mogg who said that on this type of matter he takes his whip from the hierarchy of the Catholic Church rather than the Whip's Office. Let's see a little more of our forum uber hard brexiteers who want Rees Mogg as PM (and that means not just Brexit, dear chums) spin away trying to defend this Tory Troglodyte with one hand while sticking a knife into the back of Theresa May with their other one.

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, aright said:

Spot on. As he said yesterday:-

If Brexit’s opportunities are taken off the table, Mr Rees-Mogg warned, “then Brexit becomes only a damage-limitation exercise…if we are timid and cowering and terrified of the future then our children and theirs will judge us”: their verdict will make Belshazzar’s feast look like a vicarage tea-party.

Of course, when his hobby representing the little people in his constituency becomes too tedious, Mr Rees-Mogg likes to fly the flag for a tarrif free UK, regardless of whether our trading partners reciprocate. Whether this is because he has a personal interest in such an arrangement would be entirely speculative, however he has got form for failing to declare personal financial interests in the matters for which he chooses to lobby.

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The very same Jacob Rees Mogg who said that on this type of matter he takes his whip from the hierarchy of the Catholic Church rather than the Whip's Office. Let's see a little more of our forum uber hard brexiteers who want Rees Mogg as PM (and that means not just Brexit, dear chums) spin away trying to defend this Tory Troglodyte with one hand while sticking a knife into the back of Theresa May with their other one.

I certainly don't want RM as PM. Last party I voted for was Arthur Scargill's Socialist Workers Labour Party circa 2000.

The UK only has Right wing parties to vote for at the moment IMHO, and all their heads appear well in the trough.

 

Lets have some land reform, seize and redistribution (mainly from the crown and church, but also for the other big owners like the National Trust), and remove planning restrictions for private and personal housing. Nationalize and split all large corporations.

Nope, no current party for any of that. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by MaeJoMTB
correction of party name

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I certainly don't want RM as PM. Last party I voted for was Arthur Scargill's Socialist Workers Party circa 2000.

The UK only has Right wing parties to vote for at the moment IMHO, and all their heads appear well in the trough.

Your memory needs a little check-up but you might be excused. Arthur Scargill is/was nothing to do with the Socialist Workers Party (SWP). Arthur Scargill's party is/was the Socialist Labour Party (SLP).

 

[MaeJoMTB]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Your memory needs a little check-up but you might be excused. Arthur Scargill is/was nothing to do with the Socialist Workers Party (SWP). Arthur Scargill's party is/was the Socialist Labour Party (SLP).

Correction noted and made ....... thank you (it was nearly 20 years ago).

[billd766]

1 hour ago, ckerr83 said:

Show me a legal document that clearly stated the voting threshold necessary to prompt the exit process and I'll accept the tabloid reading wisdom of gullible Brexiteers!!

 

The fact of the matter is that the referendum bill did not specify any resulting action or level of vote necessary - it was a non binding referendum; an opinion poll.

 

If Brexit happens then so be it but the brexit camp really should stop portraying this as "the will of the people", it represents the will of a small minority, centered in the northern parts of England and is far from democratic. 

 

Admittedly, capitalising the NO does make for a strong argument. 

 

What did the PM at the time David Cameron, clearly state in Parliament on Monday 27th June 2016?

 

From the Independent on that day.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-statement-to-parliament-brexit-full-text-a7106211.html

 

The will of the people who could be bothered to get off their arrrse and vote  was in favour of leaving the EU. As for those who did NOT take the option to exercise their vote believe that your side would win and it didn't matter anyway.

 

Did you, personally complain to your MP as you have the right to do so that YOU believed that the rules were wrong? If you did, then good for you, if you didn't why are you still whining 18 months later?

 

You, like me and every other eligible voter, had every opportunity in the run up to the election to put your own points forward and complain. I didn't because I read and accepted the rules as they were written.

 

If the Brexit had gone the other way very few of us Brexit voters would be crying that we lost, spitting out our dummies and throwing our toys out of the pram.

 

If we can accept that then why can't you?

 

BTW many of my friends in the UK who live in the south and in the west country also voted for Brexit so it isn't lust in the north they voted for Brexit.

 

A further BTW for you.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_rule

 

Majority rule is a decision rule that selects alternatives which have a majority, that is, more than half the votes. It is the binary decision rule used most often in influential decision-making bodies, including the legislatures of democratic nations.

 

A vote which is not cast is note an eligible vote and cannot be counted. There if more votes were cast in favour of leaving than in remaining is a majority, at least the UK.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

BTW many of my friends in the UK who live in the south and in the west country also voted for Brexit so it isn't lust in the north they voted for Brexit.

Sorry to be a pedant, but the north of the UK voted by a significant margin to remain in the EU. Unless, of course, you are conflating England and the UK as being the same thing?

[billd766]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry to be a pedant, but the north of the UK voted by a significant margin to remain in the EU. Unless, of course, you are conflating England and the UK as being the same thing?

 

I was quoting ckerr83 in post#48.

 

The north of the UK is not always Scotland.

 

Scotland did not vote for Brexit but it seems as though the north of England did.

 

A Wikipedia map of the "north of England".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The north of the UK is not always Scotland.

No, this is where I am confident in saying that, unless you are holding your AA map of the British Isles upsides down, the north of the UK is ALWAYS Scotland.

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Why would I think we are not still in the EU?   As for the lies, really?  How many times but hey! let's look at where we are.  Do you think that Brexit is going to plan?  Do you think that what the leave gang said in their campaign is coming to fruition?  Do you think that the EU are desperate to seal a trade deal with the UK as Johnson and the boys said they would?  Do you think that paying a "starting" fee of £40 billion to leave is what we were told by the Brexit campaigners, because that is certainly what Cameron said.  

 

I think you will find we have got a grip and are united in the fact that Brexit is a terrible mistake.  Maybe time for the Brexiteers to accept that you are not going to get the Brexit you voted for.

 

And we will keep going backwards and forwards over this for the foreseeable future.  I want to be wrong over Brexit, I really do.  I also think that a completely watered down Brexit would be a disaster too.  To end up with no meaningful change and no seat at the table would be a double whammy of failures.

 

So surely the correct thing to do would be for the negotiators to agree the deal for Brexit and then put it to the house or better still, the people.  Then either go with it or scrap Brexit completely.  That is not a second referendum, just a chance for all of the people to vote on the FACTS!

"So surely the correct thing to do would be for the negotiators to agree the deal for Brexit and then put it to the house or better still, the people.  Then either go with it or scrap Brexit completely.  That is not a second referendum, just a chance for all of the people to vote on the FACTS!"

 

I said pretty much the same thing (a long time ago) re. a 2nd referendum on the 'agreed, final deal'.

 

But  your 2 options ('agree to the deal or scrap Brexit completely) is a recipe for the worst possible deal - bearing in mind the majority of UK politicians support remain!

 

There would have to be an additional option -  'agreed deal unacceptable - leave immediately'.  Only then would UK and EU politicians' minds be concentrated on achieving the best possible deal for both sides.

Edited January 28, 2018 by dick dasterdly