Pros and Cons of Living in Thailand vs. the USA for older Americans

[gk10002000]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:41 AM, XDoodlebugger said:

Yes, a very good friend of mine retired in Thailand in 2015 and was using social security to fund it, by 2016 he was in a hospital and ran through his savings and had to rely on family and friends for the bills. A terrible position to be in, especially as he was a veteran and could have both medicare and Veterans Administration healthcare back in the US. Passed away not too long after the hospital stay. 

All good points and brings up the need or desire of why some US expats should at least consider maintaining their USA homeland ties for various reasons.  Medical, IDs, Financial investments, Mail things, Auto Insurance (Have you ever tried to get car insurance after not having had any for a while, even if no accidents?  The companies will gouge you), 

[mania]

7 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

All good points and brings up the need or desire of why some US expats should at least consider maintaining their USA homeland ties for various reasons.  Medical, IDs, Financial investments, Mail things, Auto Insurance (Have you ever tried to get car insurance after not having had any for a while, even if no accidents?  The companies will gouge you), 

I agree it is important to keep a US address for many things like credit cards etc

 

But as far as car insurance we found after 5 + years away it was no problem to get quick courteous quotes from 4+ insurance companies when we returned. (even though we had no US insurance history for previous 5+ years)

Not only quick but half the price we were paying in Thailand so no gouging in our case at all.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by mania

[Jeffrey346]

8 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

If one's spouse works for govt, the health plan covers foreign spouse?!?

Yes Sir.. It certainly does. Every 2 months I go for a Cardiac checkup. The total bill is usually B16,000 which includes Meds.. I pay B250 and the Gov't picks up the rest.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Jeffrey346
spelling

[Jingthing]

A more general comment here. A major reason many Americans retire abroad to Thailand and other "lower cost" nations is to either live a higher quality of life in retirement and/or to even be able to ever retire at all. Of course, such plans are not fool proof, whether staying in the USA or moving abroad. Even with all the best proactive planning, and face it following through with the best plans is often not done, life events can and often do derail the plans and goals. 

 

In my case, I "retired" abroad quite early. I'm still solvent after many years. IF I had stayed in the USA, would I even be still solvent or perhaps much better off. I would have no way of ever knowing that.

 

On this theme --

"MISSION: Rescue Your Retirement

Leap of Faith

How Moving Abroad Saved Our Assets"

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/long-time-cuenca-residents-edd-and-cynthia-staton-discuss-their-upcoming-trilogy-on-retiring-overseas/

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[xyznot]

I retired here because gay sex is free.  I don't know any other country where old white guys get so much for so little. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, xyznot said:

I retired here because gay sex is free.  I don't know any other country where old white guys get so much for so little. 

Very little is really "free" here (or anywhere) but even though I find the tone of your post ridiculous, it's obvious a fact that many older people choose Thailand because of it's reputed ease of enjoying younger sexual or relationship partners. But even in this context, economics is a factor in the motivation. A very wealthy person in the USA could enjoy that easily as well at home. 

 

So that's been mentioned and that's fine because it reflects reality.

 

But please, folks, let's not make this a thread about sexpats. I'd like to keep it open. Do you feel me? 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[xyznot]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Very little is really "free" here (or anywhere) but even though I find the tone of your post ridiculous, it's obvious a fact that many older people choose Thailand because of it's reputed ease of enjoying younger sexual or relationship partners. But even in this context, economics is a factor in the motivation. A very wealthy person in the USA could enjoy that easily as well at home. 

 

So that's been mentioned and that's fine because it reflects reality.

 

But please, folks, let's not make this a thread about sexpats. I'd like to keep it open. Do you feel me? 

Sorry but I think anyone who retires here who is not celibate or partnered with a Western significant other would fit your definition of sexpat and I don't think that it serves a purpose to label people in such a derogatory way.  

 

This year America is experiencing a sea change of values and has culturally changed in a way Thailand has not.  

 "Spring and winter" relationships are no longer available in the States and Thailand carves another notch in it's gun of expat paradise status. 

 

Thailand is not just cheaper it is like an oasis in the middle of a desert of up tight me  too'ers.  

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Yes, Thailand is different.

No, this thread will not be hijacked into a discussion of sexpats and/or whether it is correct to use that term.

Seriously, that is not OK. 

If you want to discuss the social issue of expats sex lives in Thailand, START A NEW THREAD. 

[xyznot]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, Thailand is different.

No, this thread will not be hijacked into a discussion of sexpats and/or whether it is correct to use that term.

Seriously, that is not OK. 

If you want to discuss the social issue of expats sex lives in Thailand, START A NEW THREAD. 

Change the title of your thread to exclude all mention of the main reason that the majority of males retire in Thailand as opposed to the West.  How about something like "Pros and cons of living in Thailand vs the USA for older American Eunuchs."

 

If you don't want to know why average older Americans choose to live here vs USA why ask?   It is to get away from prissy twits that are afraid to talk about sex for one reason.  The culture avails men of not only reliving their youth but talking about it and still hearing Hotel California played as a top 40 song while they dance with a young significant other.  I'm not hijacking anything I'm 100% on topic.  

[Jingthing]

I see. I won't feed you anymore and let's see how it goes. 

 

[Luckysilk]

15 minutes ago, xyznot said:

Change the title of your thread to exclude all mention of the main reason that the majority of males retire in Thailand as opposed to the West.  How about something like "Pros and cons of living in Thailand vs the USA for older American Eunuchs."

 

If you don't want to know why average older Americans choose to live here vs USA why ask?   It is to get away from prissy twits that are afraid to talk about sex for one reason.  The culture avails men of not only reliving their youth but talking about it and still hearing Hotel California played as a top 40 song while they dance with a young significant other.  I'm not hijacking anything I'm 100% on topic.  

Absolutely the reason for some if not most initially is sex, straight or gay or whatver your pleasure it’s everywhere, don’t be fooled when some say it’s for cost of living and culture 5555555

[Jingthing]

The obvious and clear intention of this thread (read the O.P. and remind yourself what subforum we are in) is about things like --

 

MEDICAL CARE

HEALTH INSURANCE

AFFORDABLE CARE ACT

MEDICARE

SOCIAL SECURITY

HOUSING 

TRANSPORTATION

TRAVEL BACK TO THE USA

PRACTICALITIES (BANKING, TAXES, etc.)

 

Under the forum rules, it can't be a political debate thread. I wish I had thought in the O.P. to mention that it isn't a sex tourism discussion thread either. I don't think this thread topic, which I think does have value, can survive it is becomes a sex topic. This subforum isn't about sex topics and in my opinion, this thread will not be allowed to continue if it becomes focused on sex. 

 

This thread topic has the potential (only potential) to exist and be relevant to people for a very long time. But with the attempt to hijack this into another sex thread (there are outside forums all about that if you want!) it risks early murder. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[gk10002000]

20 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

Yes Sir.. It certainly does. Every 2 months I go for a Cardiac checkup. The total bill is usually B16,000 which includes Meds.. I pay B250 and the Gov't picks up the rest.

Oh my dream.  Get the Thai wife with a job and medical coverage.  I will happily pay the rent and all the other stuff that I need anyway

[gk10002000]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The obvious and clear intention of this thread (read the O.P. and remind yourself what subforum we are in) is about things like --

 

MEDICAL CARE

HEALTH INSURANCE

AFFORDABLE CARE ACT

MEDICARE

SOCIAL SECURITY

HOUSING 

TRANSPORTATION

TRAVEL BACK TO THE USA

PRACTICALITIES (BANKING, TAXES, etc.)

 

Under the forum rules, it can't be a political debate thread. I wish I had thought in the O.P. to mention that it isn't a sex tourism discussion thread either. I don't think this thread topic, which I think does have value, can survive it is becomes a sex topic. This subforum isn't about sex topics and in my opinion, this thread will not be allowed to continue if it becomes focused on sex. 

 

This thread topic has the potential (only potential) to exist and be relevant to people for a very long time. But with the attempt to hijack this into another sex thread (there are outside forums all about that if you want!) it risks early murder. 

Banking and finance.  me, I would always keep the majority of my monies and things in the USA.  Unfortunately some institutions make it difficult when dealing with them from over seas.  Taxes while not having a USA address, well, many expats have talked about that, dealing with Manilla I believe for Tax questions.  Health Insurance:  If older go on Medicare and hope you can travel home when needed.  Supplemental B coverage can be around $200/month in addition to the $135 base cost I think.  Strongly suggest some local Thai insurance for convenience.  $100/month for some decent BUPA plans seems reasonable from 60-65 from what I have seen.  ACA at the moment with the new tax law will NOT penalize you if you don't have coverage, and you can qualify for an exemption if properly documented as being outside the USA.  Social Security as others have said can be a little challenging to setup for overseas.  Me, I plan to keep it going to my USA institution, and I will transfer it or access it as I need it.  Did somebody say your SSA monies CAN"T go to an account that has an ATM card?  Still not a big deal as I have Money market and Savings accounts and can then transfer the money to another account at the same place by myself

[Ruffian Dick]

21 hours ago, mania said:

I agree it is important to keep a US address for many things like credit cards etc.

Why? The credit card company doesn't give a rat's ass where you live, as long as you pay on time. Correct me if I'm mistaken. :)

[mania]

2 hours ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Why? The credit card company doesn't give a rat's ass where you live, as long as you pay on time. Correct me if I'm mistaken. :)

I guess it depends on the cards

Mine were business cards with high limits

They were fine with my being in Thailand but still wanted a US address

& would only send new cards to that address (every 4 years or so)

I would then have my kids send via FedEx or DHL to me

Tried regular priority air mail twice both times stolen/lost somewhere in Thailands system

 

As far as use & billing ..I had paperless billing & paid from Thailand via US banks all done online

The cards by the way are Capital One which has no fees for using in foreign countries

Edited February 3, 2018 by mania

[mania]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A more general comment here. A major reason many Americans retire abroad to Thailand and other "lower cost" nations is to either live a higher quality of life in retirement and/or to even be able to ever retire at all.

 

I think that is true for many but was not true for us...In truth quality of everything is better at out US location than our Thai location

 

But in our case we own homes in both places so I think that is a big part of it.

[Jeffrey346]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Oh my dream.  Get the Thai wife with a job and medical coverage.  I will happily pay the rent and all the other stuff that I need anyway

I don't know if a Thai job with medical coverage covers a foreign spouse.

A Gov't job does. In fact, my wife's coverage not only includes me, it includes her parents as well.

[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I don't know if a Thai job with medical coverage covers a foreign spouse.

A Gov't job does. In fact, my wife's coverage not only includes me, it includes her parents as well.

Yes.  I left out the words Government job.  That is what I meant.  Of course there may be some other jobs that would cover a spouse, but I meant to say Government.

[Jingthing]

Posting this current opinion piece (from a very famous conservative) not for it's political content, but for the underlying facts it presents. It's a wonder more Americans don't consider retirement abroad to lower cost places like Thailand when staying at home means either living (or dying) in dire poverty or not ever being able to retire at all (assuming work is still available going into old age). The article gets into low savings rates, American culture of enjoying the current feeling of prosperity too much without considering the future, and how little the typical social security check covers basic needs if that is all or mostly what you have (a huge percentage of current and future older Americans).

 

Quote

 

Why good economic news is bad

...

As of 2013, 45 percent of working-age households had no retirement savings. Social Security (average annual payment, $15,500), which provides 33 percent of seniors' annual income, and 90 percent for the bottom third of retirees, but only about 35 percent of a typical household's pre-retirement income, last year became America's first trillion-dollar-a-year program. Absent reforms, its trust fund will be exhausted by 2035 and benefits will have to be reduced 23 percent.
Read more at

 

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will020318.php3#ToiXGkbTweAZUigA.99

 

That said, it's my strong impression that American institutions make it harder than it needs to be to retire abroad. Things like banks and brokerage firms wanting to close expat accounts, U.S. taxation and treasury reporting obligations, etc. 

 

Another thing worth mentioning. I recently read that unless the social security system makes a major adjustment, it will be forced to cut benefits significantly in the 2030s. It's hard to know whether that will come to pass, but if so, the problems mentioned here would be even more severe. 

 

Also, in the context here, I think it's worth mentioning that for lower income / lower wealth Americans, Thailand is one of only a few nations where they can legally formalize their retirement stays with visas. Wealthier people have many more choices of course. 

 

What are those lower financial qualifying nations?

 

Of the top of my head (not guaranteeing this list is error free) I think the list looks something like this:

 

Thailand

Cambodia

Nicaragua

Colombia

Costa Rica

Panama

Ecuador

Peru

Dominican Republic

 

Some may be surprised that Mexico is not on that list. The reason for that is that Mexico significantly raised their financial requirements. Yes, that could happen someday in Thailand too, and with retirement status only good for one year at a time, Thailand never offers really long term residence security in retirement (as some other nations do).

 

Given such a list, even with the long distance, it's not surprising that Thailand is pretty popular with Americans. Thailand does have a lot of attractions and you can get by in English if you're lazy or just can't learn a foreign language to save your life. 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Silly me! Oops. The source for what I was saying about social security possibly needing to greatly cut benefits was in the link I posted above! Egg on my face. I knew I had read that but hadn't realized I had just posted and sourced it. 

[mania]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Posting this current opinion piece (from a very famous conservative) not for it's political content, but for the underlying facts it presents. It's a wonder more Americans don't consider retirement abroad to lower cost places like Thailand when staying at home means either living (or dying) in dire poverty or not ever being able to retire at all

 

Actually most of these scare mongering type articles are written outside the USA or linked as reference by people who have not lived in the USA for years if not decades.

Silly assumptions left & right

 

Why many people do not retire abroad will be realized by many who thought it was a lower cost higher lifestyle/ Opt out of working easy life & a better future

but did not consider one decent sized bump in the road not only disproves all of that but then they have also self fulfilled their dire warnings when trying to repatriate broke.

 

Then they realize too late it was perhaps a mistake to live well beyond their means (in a reduced cheaper lifestyle) with little or no income for so many years & at the end of it have really nothing to show for it...Except continued the cost to even gain permission to live there thru visa fees & requirement that are likely due to change soon.

 

Add to that sketchy insurance companies that can raise prices thru the roof after any use of said insurance or drop you all together & prices don't look so great anymore

for the average person. Of course a well off person can self fund any & all events.

Forget the silly often used assumption that in a "serious event" they will just fly to where they still "call home" & get it done for free.

During a serious event in Thailand you have two choices...pay or die...I guess the go fund me option makes 3

 

Truth is everyone I know, knew that by the time they reached 62 they should have their homes paid off & debt reduced to zero.

Then they could live easily anywhere they choose on a small amount. Most still choose the USA because of a "Quality" of life (not measured by cheapest)

They can always visit Thailand or many other spots if  they choose.

 

But while retired in the USA many benefits are afforded them as citizens ranging from lowered taxes to various boost programs if they need it.

OF course any medical emergency will be taken care of whether you can pay or not.

 

Dying in "dire poverty" as you say is more likely for  "underfunded expats" than US citizens

"Underfunded expats" are a much greater number than many will admit

After all they did not seek out the cheapest place to live because they had tons of funding

[Mrjlh]

As I posted last October I went back after 11 years living in LOS. Married my Thai GF after being together 10 years and immigrated her back with me.  Yes, she is a little homesick but is now starting to appreciate what we have in the USA. Going into an American grocery store was an eye opener for her...so many choices.   But she also has a job making her own money, her own bank account, and establishing her own self worth and sending some money home to help her family.  There are Thai restaurants and Thai food for the wife. She has made several Thai friends already.

 

Location is everything especially if you are on SS. New York & Calif are clearly out. Even in the cheaper areas of those states. Both state governments suck for one! Won't go into the specifics but the people in control are out of control.  And the hate in politics is absurd.  They all work for us! Not their Party's agenda's..period.  Do you really think LOS is any different?  Think again.  Moving on...

 

If you take the time to look, you'll find places very affordable in several states. If you can qualify on only 65,000B a month in Thailand, you'll find a place in Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Florida and several other states.  Although Florida is starting to become less friendly to retirees.  Lots of 55+ communities everywhere. Low income relief on rent. What you'll find is Western food cost on supermarkets are cheaper than Thailand.  (Excise fees & taxes). I found the biggest expense was in the relocation. After which It settles out.

 

Medical insurance wise I have both VA and Medicare..... and Medicare Advantage. Medicare and Medicare Advantage are two different plans. Advantage is subsidized by Private insurance, medicare by the government.  Many plans available at "no cost" or low cost with great coverage but it depends in what state and what plan they have and what you need. I'm covered by two plans where I wasn't in Thailand. And yes it's now $134 for Medicare Plan B. But my Humana policy gives me back $50!   Because so many health insurance company's pulled out of Obamacare, they are actually offering better plans for retirees because  they are not in a position to make up for the extra cost. Under 65 you pay the price.

 

Biggest mistake expats have with their SS is thinking that when they die their Foreign wife will get part of their SS.  This is "ONLY" true if the wife has lived in the USA for a minimum of 5 years! Look it up. This is the reason I brought my wife back. In 5 years then we'll return....maybe. (SS Pdf file attached)

 

I am not living "high on the hog" by any means. And in Thailand it was actually more enjoyable culturally speaking if you could tolerate or accept their way of doing things. Many things in Thailand are cheaper yes but it's relative to wages. A many things cost the same in both countries.

 

Nevada isn't that bad a all. No income tax. Gambling and prostitution is legal if that's your thing (Costly hobby).    Pot is now legal. Open-carry state. Electricity, Gas & water is actually cheaper than Thailand at least where I am now.  I'm paying the same price for phone, TV, & Internet that I did in Thailand. Plus it's at 100meg speeds.  Soon to be 500-1GB speed.  Yes 1GB.

 

There are definitely things I miss about Thailand. But this is a big planet and there are many other places I plan to see.  Just want to live long enough to do it. Peace.

 

 

 

 

EN-05-10137(1).pdf

[Jingthing]

Just to clarify the income requirement for retirement legalization in Thailand is ZERO baht. Many people qualify based on bank account only or combination method. A social security check of 65K per month is well above average.

[Credo]

I have to agree with @Mrjlh.   I relocated back to the US, at least as my primary residence.   I do spend time in Thailand, but after a little over a year, I am finding Thailand less and less attractive.   

 

A lot of it depends on personal circumstances, if you have a house and car in the US, and in most places, these are absolute necessities to a comfortable life, then it's reasonably priced and very convenient.   If I were forced to rent a place, I think it would be undoable, the same with out a reasonably good vehicle.

 

The places with good transport are bigger cities, and they are expensive.   

 

The US is MUCH less stressful than Thailand (although I was working in Thailand and that added to the stress).   Almost nothing, except street food is convenient.   Most of the time it was a fight with traffic to get anywhere and there was the heat and pollution.   In rural areas, it's a little easier, but fewer amenities.   

 

It is a little harder to make friends in the US, but people are very friendly on the street and in stores, so the atmosphere is congenial.   Drivers are MUCH better and the roads are reasonably safe.   

 

I have a lot of friends in Thailand and I do miss them and the social life in Thailand was more dynamic and diverse.   I don't drink at home and only enjoy drinks if I am out and about.   In the US, driving to a bar requires planning unless you want to spend the night in the local jail.   

 

If someone told me tomorrow that I had to return to Thailand, I wouldn't be upset and if someone told me I had to spend the rest of my life in US, I'd be OK with that as well.

 

[mania]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Just to clarify the income requirement for retirement legalization in Thailand is ZERO baht. Many people qualify based on bank account only or combination method. A social security check of 65K per month is well above average.

 

True 65,000/per month baht income is not an absolute requirement but can be used in lieu of the required 800,000 baht they want to see in your bank account

for a yearly extension

 

Which not surprising because divided by 12 months 800,000 is 66,666 baht

Edited February 4, 2018 by mania

[mania]

2 hours ago, Mrjlh said:

Biggest mistake expats have with their SS is thinking that when they die their Foreign wife will get part of their SS.  This is "ONLY" true if the wife has lived in the USA for a minimum of 5 years! Look it up. This is the reason I brought my wife back. In 5 years then we'll return....maybe.

 

Your wife probably has a green card then? If so highly recommend citizenship after 3 years.

Reason being she will not only be eligible for survivor benefits but can also get spousal benefits while your still alive

once she reaches 62 years of age

 

Plus of course the benefit of dual citizenship which for Thai/USA carries no penalties in either country

[Jingthing]

To clarify again, people should definitely not assume that all American expats have an income or spend at least 800K baht per year just because that is the Thai level. An expat may have an income of nothing, and use savings for the bank account and spend much less than 800K baht per year to live in Thailand. There is no requirement to spend or import that full amount every year. There are some nations that do require annual import of a set minimum amount annually for expat retirement status. Thailand is definitely NOT one of them. 

 

I'm posting this in detail because it is a totally false assumption to think that all American expats in Thailand actually have an income of at least 800K baht and would have at least that if repatriating. Many, many do not. Those with only social security checks as income mostly would not, not to mention those either not eligible yet or haven't made a s.s. claim yet based on timing choice.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Jingthing

[mania]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

To clarify again, people should definitely not assume that all American expats have an income or spend at least 800K baht per year just because that is the Thai level.

 

Yes I don't think anyone is confused as most of us have already lived in both places which is why we view the "Home Country Forum" section of Thai Visa

 

But as this is a thread about Pro's & Cons' of living in Thailand vs USA for older Americans it is important to note this requirement by Thai Immigration of having

800k Thai Baht/$25,361 USD in a Thai Bank or show you have 65k Thai Baht/ $2060 USD income per month has to be satisfied yearly to obtain a retirement visa 1 year extension

(Or roughly half these amounts if married to a Thai National)

 

How you go about that is your choice & yes you need no income to live in Thailand but...You need to satisfy the requirements for a Retirement Visa

 

Anyone comparing the two places will need to consider this Thai Immigration requirement for their yearly Visa Extensions

Edited February 5, 2018 by mania

[Jingthing]

Mentioned before the high cost of HOUSING in the USA. Of course older Americans living in their own home if paid off will have a big economic advantage. But still needing to pay a mortgage or rent the opposite. 

 

So how are older Americans doing on that? Not so good ...

 

https://www.housingwire.com/ext/resources/images/editorial/Kelsey-Ramirez/Folder-1/Screen-Shot-2017-10-06-at-10004-PM.png