Pros and Cons of Living in Thailand vs. the USA for older Americans

[xyznot]

On 2/5/2018 at 3:37 AM, Mrjlh said:

As I posted last October I went back after 11 years living in LOS. Married my Thai GF after being together 10 years and immigrated her back with me.  Yes, she is a little homesick but is now starting to appreciate what we have in the USA. Going into an American grocery store was an eye opener for her...so many choices.   But she also has a job making her own money, her own bank account, and establishing her own self worth and sending some money home to help her family.  There are Thai restaurants and Thai food for the wife. She has made several Thai friends already.

 

Location is everything especially if you are on SS. New York & Calif are clearly out. Even in the cheaper areas of those states. Both state governments suck for one! Won't go into the specifics but the people in control are out of control.  And the hate in politics is absurd.  They all work for us! Not their Party's agenda's..period.  Do you really think LOS is any different?  Think again.  Moving on...

 

If you take the time to look, you'll find places very affordable in several states. If you can qualify on only 65,000B a month in Thailand, you'll find a place in Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Florida and several other states.  Although Florida is starting to become less friendly to retirees.  Lots of 55+ communities everywhere. Low income relief on rent. What you'll find is Western food cost on supermarkets are cheaper than Thailand.  (Excise fees & taxes). I found the biggest expense was in the relocation. After which It settles out.

 

Medical insurance wise I have both VA and Medicare..... and Medicare Advantage. Medicare and Medicare Advantage are two different plans. Advantage is subsidized by Private insurance, medicare by the government.  Many plans available at "no cost" or low cost with great coverage but it depends in what state and what plan they have and what you need. I'm covered by two plans where I wasn't in Thailand. And yes it's now $134 for Medicare Plan B. But my Humana policy gives me back $50!   Because so many health insurance company's pulled out of Obamacare, they are actually offering better plans for retirees because  they are not in a position to make up for the extra cost. Under 65 you pay the price.

 

Biggest mistake expats have with their SS is thinking that when they die their Foreign wife will get part of their SS.  This is "ONLY" true if the wife has lived in the USA for a minimum of 5 years! Look it up. This is the reason I brought my wife back. In 5 years then we'll return....maybe. (SS Pdf file attached)

 

I am not living "high on the hog" by any means. And in Thailand it was actually more enjoyable culturally speaking if you could tolerate or accept their way of doing things. Many things in Thailand are cheaper yes but it's relative to wages. A many things cost the same in both countries.

 

Nevada isn't that bad a all. No income tax. Gambling and prostitution is legal if that's your thing (Costly hobby).    Pot is now legal. Open-carry state. Electricity, Gas & water is actually cheaper than Thailand at least where I am now.  I'm paying the same price for phone, TV, & Internet that I did in Thailand. Plus it's at 100meg speeds.  Soon to be 500-1GB speed.  Yes 1GB.

 

There are definitely things I miss about Thailand. But this is a big planet and there are many other places I plan to see.  Just want to live long enough to do it. Peace.

You're wrong as far as I'm concerned.  I shop at Tops and Foodland and would not have the same international choice in many products available here but not in the States like cheese and chocolates.  The main components of a budget are housing and transportation which I spend less than half of what I would in the States for a new home close to the ocean and a car and driver.  I have insurance so that's not a concern except that I think health care is superior here as opposed to the USA and I don't like having to see a doctor every time I need a simple medication prescription.  I have 200  Mbps INTERNET speed both wire and wireless here now.  Sex costs me for a year here what I would pay in one evening in Nevada.  My sig other works here and will not retire for 30 years so that's not a big concern.  I buy fresh lobster, crab and fish at the fisherman's market.  I've lived in Florida, Texas and Nevada never appealed to me.  My significant other would never be happy in the States and I think that is the case with most Thai people.  Then there's the discrimination thing.  It is not as bad in the US as in Australia and NZ but why submit a person you love to that kind of BS.  

[mania]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Of course older Americans living in their own home if paid off will have a big economic advantage. But still needing to pay a mortgage or rent the opposite. 

 

Very true this & something I have always said. By 60 you should be paid off housing wise no matter what country you live in.

It is a BIG economical advantage if all you have are basic expenses with housing paid off.

 

But for folks that are not paid in off in the USA I cannot imagine how they will do it once retired on SS etc. I guess they can also look at reverse mortgages or selling

& taking their equity elsewhere

 

In that situation I imagine  it is very much easier to afford a condo that you can buy outright in Thailand for under 1million Baht/ $31,000

But then again your rights with future management etc/ owners fees / maintenance fees/ etc can be iffy at times unless your condo has good management/owners committee

 

Then again everything goes in cycles. While the US is pricey now there are still deals to be had.

On the other hand Thailand is a buyers market right now as it approaches what looks like what the US went thru in 2007-2010

Edited February 7, 2018 by mania

[xyznot]

4 hours ago, mania said:

 

Very true this & something I have always said. By 60 you should be paid off housing wise no matter what country you live in.

It is a BIG economical advantage if all you have are basic expenses with housing paid off.

 

But for folks that are not paid in off in the USA I cannot imagine how they will do it once retired on SS etc. I guess they can also look at reverse mortgages or selling

& taking their equity elsewhere

 

In that situation I imagine  it is very much easier to afford a condo that you can buy outright in Thailand for under 1million Baht/ $31,000

But then again your rights with future management etc/ owners fees / maintenance fees/ etc can be iffy at times unless your condo has good management/owners committee

 

Then again everything goes in cycles. While the US is pricey now there are still deals to be had.

On the other hand Thailand is a buyers market right now as it approaches what looks like what the US went thru in 2007-2010

I see no reason to have paid off housing.  It is tying up cash for no reason.  I rent in Thailand and would never buy any housing here.  What happens if you have a loud neighbor or bad dogs or in the US flood or fire problems.  

[Jingthing]

There is no doubt that buying or renting as far as housing costs living in Thailand would be a big advantage.

 

But housing isn't the whole picture but it is very significant on quality of life or even life itself in case of the lack of it.

 

The ways an older person only on a typical average SS check could afford housing if not owned clear might be

 

Living with relatives

In a group roommate situation

Low end mobile home

Subsidized senior apartments

 

If there is a substantial savings to draw on, spend down on that to pay rent, legacy mortgage, or even buy a low cost unit.

 

On the subsidized senior HUD housing there are waiting periods sometimes lasting years and strict applications. My assumption is that a returning expat would often have a non standard application, perhaps an odd lack of recent credit history so in no way could acceptance to such housing be seen as guaranteed. To add, ever being evicted would disqualify. Without encouraging a political debate in the current times HUD budget and priority has been cut. Affordable housing is not a front burner issue with either major political party.

 

Surely this does not cover all the possibilities but as you can see it's not a particularly cheerful list.

 

Not to mention homelessness.

 

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mania]

54 minutes ago, xyznot said:

I see no reason to have paid off housing.  It is tying up cash for no reason.  I rent in Thailand and would never buy any housing here.  What happens if you have a loud neighbor or bad dogs or in the US flood or fire problems. 

 

To each their own & you make your choices for what works for you...

 

In our case it works great for us. We bought a Condo in Chiang Mai in 1997

Sold it in 2016 for 2.5 times the price we paid. Plus we had use of it for 19 years so no rent paid.

 

Did you pay anything for rent in last 20 years?

 

We also still own a house in Thailand up north in the  country but will not sell that as it is near family.

 

Same with our home here in US no problem as I built it years ago myself & since it is paid off we also never pay  rent here

as it builds equity...Which here is about 4x what it cost me to build already.

 

As for floods or fire ...well I imagine that is what insurance is for...But we live on a mountain so no floods.

 

But do what you need to do & enjoy

[XDoodlebugger]

On 2/5/2018 at 12:37 AM, Mrjlh said:

 

 

Biggest mistake expats have with their SS is thinking that when they die their Foreign wife will get part of their SS.  This is "ONLY" true if the wife has lived in the USA for a minimum of 5 years! Look it up. This is the reason I brought my wife back. In 5 years then we'll return....maybe. (SS Pdf file attached)

 

 

 

 

 

 

EN-05-10137(1).pdf

This is strange as I know of a deceased friend of mine whose wife is currently receiving SS benefits in Thailand but would not meet these requirements. She has a dependent son with a US passport that is also receiving benefits, would that matter?

[xyznot]

8 hours ago, mania said:

To each their own & you make your choices for what works for you...

 

In our case it works great for us. We bought a Condo in Chiang Mai in 1997

Sold it in 2016 for 2.5 times the price we paid. Plus we had use of it for 19 years so no rent paid.

 

Did you pay anything for rent in last 20 years?

 

We also still own a house in Thailand up north in the  country but will not sell that as it is near family.

 

Same with our home here in US no problem as I built it years ago myself & since it is paid off we also never pay  rent here

as it builds equity...Which here is about 4x what it cost me to build already.

 

As for floods or fire ...well I imagine that is what insurance is for...But we live on a mountain so no floods.

 

But do what you need to do & enjoy

I paid off a mortgage for the last 20 years and then was forced to give the house to my exwife.  A Farang can't own land in Thailand so that's a complete matter of trust.  Since the rents here are so cheap it is not problem to rent and not take a risk.  Divorce USA 50%.  I would never take another bet with 50% odds so why would I buy a house?  Would you play Russian roulette with 3 bullets in a six shooter?  Maybe you would.    But do what you need to do & enjoy   Supposedly there are laws to protect the male in divorce proceedings in the USA but with children involved I'd not bet on it.  

 

The subject of this thread is older men living in Thailand and USA and in Thailand that means renting as one can't own land.  Why keep a house in the USA if not living there?  I'd rather invest in secured investments and rent.  

 

Maybe I have 10 years left so I'd take the cash and bank it and use the liquid assets for whatever.  

[newnative]

7 hours ago, XDoodlebugger said:

This is strange as I know of a deceased friend of mine whose wife is currently receiving SS benefits in Thailand but would not meet these requirements. She has a dependent son with a US passport that is also receiving benefits, would that matter?

I'm curious about this, too, as I am under the same impression that my Thai spouse has to live in the US 5 years in order to qualify for SS benefits.

[Jingthing]

I'm sure there are lots of scenarios where keeping a house in the USA makes sense. For example, it was bought at a good price, it's paid off, you can afford not to take the sale cash, it can be rented out (yes, that's a hassle from abroad), it's a backup in case you want or need to repatriate.

 

But if keeping a house in the USA and it's a money drain, that's usually quite an expensive proposition to have active homes in multiple countries.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Jingthing

[xyznot]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm sure there are lots of scenarios where keeping a house in the USA makes sense. For example, it was bought at a good price, it's paid off, you can afford not to take the sale cash, it can be rented out (yes, that's a hassle from abroad), it's a backup in case you want or need to repatriate.

 

But if keeping a house in the USA and it's a money drain, that's usually quite an expensive proposition to have active homes in multiple countries.

If you are a rich guy no problem.  But, how many rich guys retire in Thailand?  

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, xyznot said:

If you are a rich guy no problem.  But, how many rich guys retire in Thailand?  

Plenty but not the majority of American expats. I totally agree keeping active homes in more than country is generally not a cheap option!

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

I'm curious about this, too, as I am under the same impression that my Thai spouse has to live in the US 5 years in order to qualify for SS benefits.

I think that is true and that it used to be 10 years.

[mania]

3 hours ago, xyznot said:

The subject of this thread is older men living in Thailand and USA and in Thailand that means renting as one can't own land.  Why keep a house in the USA if not living there?  I'd rather invest in secured investments and rent.  

 

Actually the subject of thread is "Pros and Cons of Living in Thailand vs. the USA for older Americans"

 

In Thailand of course there are a few ways for folks to own land but I am not interested in Thailand's Land

The house we own is in my wife's name as it should be as it is basically on family land given to her & I would want it to stay that way.

 

The condo we owned & sold was in both our names & yes you can own condo's in Thailand if it makes

up the 49% foreign ownership of condo quota

 

As previously mentioned as an investment & basically a way to live free it worked out fine for us. YMMV

 

As to why keep a house in the USA if not living there

 

1- It can be the best investment of your life if in a great area & paid off as it is building equity nicely

 

2- It can be rented out as we did with ours while living years in Thailand for years.

That rent was more than enough money to live in Thailand + home continued to build equity back in the USA

 

3- we came back to USA after years in Thailand easily by giving tenants 3 months notice.

Easy to say you will live out your years in Thailand but future has a way of changing

 

Nothing wrong with  "secured" investments & paying rent as you do I'm sure. We just went this way as it worked for us.

 

 

[mania]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Plenty but not the majority of American expats. I totally agree keeping active homes in more than country is generally not a cheap option!

We surely are not rich but had planned from early on. Also building our own home in USA is a fraction of what folks pay to buy.

 

Like I said in previous post keeping a home does not have to cost & instead can be a source of income,

 

[Ruffian Dick]

On 2/2/2018 at 4:05 PM, mania said:

I guess it depends on the cards

Mine were business cards with high limits

They were fine with my being in Thailand but still wanted a US address

& would only send new cards to that address (every 4 years or so)

I would then have my kids send via FedEx or DHL to me

Tried regular priority air mail twice both times stolen/lost somewhere in Thailands system

 

As far as use & billing ..I had paperless billing & paid from Thailand via US banks all done online

The cards by the way are Capital One which has no fees for using in foreign countries

Thanks, Mania, I will ask my card co.

[Ruffian Dick]

3 hours ago, xyznot said:

If you are a rich guy no problem.  But, how many rich guys retire in Thailand?  

You ask them, you might find them by going to Hawaii.

[gk10002000]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:32 AM, xyznot said:

I paid off a mortgage for the last 20 years and then was forced to give the house to my exwife.  A Farang can't own land in Thailand so that's a complete matter of trust.  Since the rents here are so cheap it is not problem to rent and not take a risk.  Divorce USA 50%.  I would never take another bet with 50% odds so why would I buy a house?  Would you play Russian roulette with 3 bullets in a six shooter?  Maybe you would.    But do what you need to do & enjoy   Supposedly there are laws to protect the male in divorce proceedings in the USA but with children involved I'd not bet on it.  

 

The subject of this thread is older men living in Thailand and USA and in Thailand that means renting as one can't own land.  Why keep a house in the USA if not living there?  I'd rather invest in secured investments and rent.  

 

Maybe I have 10 years left so I'd take the cash and bank it and use the liquid assets for whatever.  

the ex wife factor is something to be considered if married. If divorced and you are renting, I guess she can't get the house, but I would imagine her almony would be adjusted to include a rent cost?

[newarrior]

On 1/30/2018 at 3:51 PM, Jingthing said:

 

"For example an older expat with uninsurable medical problems could rather easily be financially ruined in Thailand, but in the USA with Medicare, even though not close to free as far as out of pocket expenses, might ultimately be better off from a survival POV back home. 

 

The harsh reality is this choice to leave the USA as an older American can have really significant consequences. On long term financial health, on literal health, and even on life span."

Man brilliant words..I would love to hear you expand more...Thanks !

[GinBoy2]

On 8/26/2018 at 5:44 PM, newarrior said:

Man brilliant words..I would love to hear you expand more...Thanks !

There are many scenarios, but I’ll give you one.

 

So, you’re late 50’s early 60’s. Cigna Thailand will already have started jacking up rates, even without outpatient coverage, and excluding pre existing conditions.

 

In the US, you could before medicaid kicks in enroll in an ACA plan which would at least cover you for any pre existing conditions, and depending on your income be actually pretty cheap.

 

Now you may have a pretty hefty deductible, but a lot of the plans at least you can get a family doc visit for $35, which like for me, is pretty much all you need to get a prescription script written is pretty good.

 

Catastrophic, well thats why God invented credit cards, and if is was really really serious assuming that you had paid into SS, you’d end up on disability and your States medicaid program before you qualify for true Fed Medicare