Restrictions on Thai children educated at international schools

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Nope, as I don't know which school your kids will attend !!

I'm saying that you can pay as much as you want, doesn't mean you will always get what you think your high fees deserve.

That marketing blurb, you posted above, is just marketing blurb. The reality might be quite different.

 

I can only go on reports from the students that my wife teaches. They always need extra study with her to get through their exams. 

Kid(s) from one only, or several, international schools..? – and what certification are you talking about..?

[manchega]

On 2/3/2018 at 5:59 AM, greenchair said:

You have no idea what you are talking about. 

enlighten me?

[manchega]

On 2/3/2018 at 6:51 AM, Briggsy said:

Thammasart is, arguably, Thailand's no. 2 university. Admission is by entrance exam and not means-tested. To gain a place at Thammasart, money is neither required nor will having money be enough to get a poor student in.

 

Have you perhaps confused Thammasart with Assumption?

au contraire , happen to have studied with a few ... and attempted to train others ..... no confusion here, renowned amongst Thai people as a place for rich Thai people that did not get into those other unis

[manchega]

10 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

 

Agreed but can anyone answer my original question, the subject of this thread - namely whether there are any restrictions placed on Thai kids educated in international schools in entering universities like Thammasart?


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disagree with what you agree with above their, but to answer your question, I beleive if you know the right people -cough cough there is no restriction on the kid who enters, if you know what I mean - cough cough ( the place where rich kids get educated when they don't get into the top universities in the land).

if you are worried about the ratio of international students to thai in the universities

there is nothing to worry about there, the courses in most are underfilled and they would take any if they could pass the minimal accepted standards ( of course the standards are flexible depending), the international courses tend to be held to a lower standard academically and .... in dealing with the interview, ......so the most talented are on the thai standard degreee.

of course as mentioned the question is have the kids been educated in a thai international school i.e. the above mentioned superstitious hiararchical stuff and team work or in a real international school that teaches critical thinking, individuality, reading books and proper research .........

it will make a real difference, since the only restriction ( assuming you are not tlaking about an international school that would be considered inferior to the thai way of thinking) will be passing the entrance exam along with the us like gpa system

[OldSiamHand]

On 1/30/2018 at 10:56 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

About 60% of my teens university course is dance, sport, prayer and king worship.

(International Business Studies)

Only 60%?  That sounds rigorous for a Thai university.  Surely this is for her Phd.

[manchega]

On 1/30/2018 at 11:12 AM, Acharn said:

I think you don't have much experience with either international schools or Thai universities. No Thai university is any different from the primary or secondary system. They rely greatly on rote learning. The kids do learn to think creatively and independently, but they also learn not to display that to their teachers. It's the same everywhere. International schools may give more training in how to use libraries, but otherwise they follow the same education system as the country their founder originated from. They give different emphasis to different subject matter than Thai schools, but otherwise there is no difference. Do you really think the schools in France or Germany teach their students to think independently? One exception I've seen -- I read a teacher's manual for teachers of high school level mathematics published in the old Soviet Union. It stressed teaching independent thinking and creativity.

of course you are quite correct, though have first hand experience and beleive me, would take an underperforming French or German student in my office any time over the natives

[GarryP]

On 2/6/2018 at 6:55 PM, manchega said:

au contraire , happen to have studied with a few ... and attempted to train others ..... no confusion here, renowned amongst Thai people as a place for rich Thai people that did not get into those other unis

I think you will find there are a disproportionate number of students from rich families, but this is because their parents were able to get them into the better schools from the beginning and could afford to pay for tutoring, etc. resulting in higher grades when taking the entrance exams. They did not buy their way into Thammasart or Chula. 

[manchega]

obviously don't want to come afoul of anti def laws.......  true chula is the highest ranked in thailand

 

if it were my children Singapore has some very good institutions

[Number 6]

I've got lost in the comments, but let me try to address the core question. I teach at a public high school that is said to produce 50-70% of the Thai professional class. I am unaware of an exact quota, I do not think these sorts of quotas exist per-se. In the TCAS system you have the truly gifted students applying. Round three is the general free for all - if a student does not make the cut, they reapply round 4-5.

 

I've no idea about the criteria but I'm learning very quickly based upon my students the last year or two as I've seen my older students now apply to university and last year teaching strictly m6 and become somewhat of an ad-hoc admissions counselor.

 

Currently, only my students that entered international programs have been accepted. The TCAS system is screwed up and as I write this students are jamming the website with mixed results - 404 not 555.

 

I have very solid students, some of the best in Thailand with pending apps, I'm sure most if not all will get into professional faculties.

 

The question about who gets in, quotas and how it all related to international students,  I can share the following.

 

I'm certain that the universities take the students former schools and abilities somewhat into account as they should. This adds balance, strength and diversity to the student body.

 

I've no idea but my hunch is there are set aside quotas for students that are not from the top public schools as a block, yet other public schools. Where an international student would fit into the Thai program is a huge unknown. I've also heard foreign intl school teachers admit the students Thai is not great. It's my personal opinion that they would not face discrimination in non professional programs, but might if their last name was western. I do not think they'd be discriminated based on attending intl school.

 

In my opinion, these students would be far better off attending the international programs of the top 3 universities here, especially the professional programs - which are highly competitive, at the same time easier for students who can hit the bar as these programs require quite high SAT and may require university admissions exams as well.

 

Last year in the CU BBA program, I think one third of the students SAT scores were above 1400 and it appears the cut off at 1220 although I know one student who was able to enter with 1200. Economics faculty at CU functions in a similar manner.

 

I had a favorite student I had been coaching from a former school. She was not of the caliber of student I teach now (public-private). She was top of her class and valedictorian and despite her amazing fluency in English, her SATs were low. Her high math teacher sucked as well. Anyway, she gained admissions with my letter of recommendation to a science-y faculty in international program at Mahidol. Her parents forced her to drop that and shoot the moon for Chula. I wrote yet another letter on her behalf and luckily, she was admitted. I was hugely concerned because of her SAT scores in particular.

 

The above demonstrates to me that the universities are trying to accept good students from all schools. Honestly, so many international school kids go abroad I'd think they are a tiny minority (that is real intl schools, IB...).

 

From my old school the education was not good. The students from EP program only a few entered the top three universities, about 20% and some under faculties like Chinese medicine.

 

I've no idea how students fare in admissions to regular programs coming from international schools. As stated before, the school should have that data.

 

As an aside, years ago I had a student who was studying at BCIS and by her mother's account, her fluency in English and other competencies that was a solid education for her p1-6. She pulled her out and put her into the public I was working so as to regain her Thai language skills. I'm so pleased as she was able to pass the entrance exam where I'm now teaching and will be set to jump to CU in a few years. A lifetime of dedication and hard work.

 

Finally, I can also relay that unlike western universities, the interview plays next to no part in the process for international programs. Or rather, it won't get you in - but may exclude you. I was disappointed to learn this honestly.

 

I realized I've stated a lot of information, much of it not directly related but parents might find helpful.

 

Good luck to your son's and daughters. Thai parents go to extreme lengths to get their kids into good schools. Many in and of themselves build lifelong friendships and connections. Doing well at the top 3-5 public schools all but assures a place somewhere at the top three schools.

 

Be certain your child is prepared, IELTS, SATs once, twice if required. Ready for PAT/GAT and ONET (+90%). Choices made, applications ready to go, interview prepped. Nothing to chance

 

[Number 6]

On 4/20/2018 at 11:15 AM, GarryP said:

I think you will find there are a disproportionate number of students from rich families, but this is because their parents were able to get them into the better schools from the beginning and could afford to pay for tutoring, etc. resulting in higher grades when taking the entrance exams. They did not buy their way into Thammasart or Chula. 

Very true at my school.

 

On 4/22/2018 at 11:22 AM, manchega said:

obviously don't want to come afoul of anti def laws.......  true chula is the highest ranked in thailand

 

if it were my children Singapore has some very good institutions

Chula is the most favored. Mahidol is every bit as good for medicine, the oldest faculty in Thailand also specializing in tropical medicine. Thammasat for social sciences, law, polisci, international relations is solid. This is where Thailand's political activists often are found.

 

King Mongkut KMITL is coming on strong in I.T.

[BEVUP]

6 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Very true at my school.

 

Chula is the most favored. Mahidol is every bit as good for medicine, the oldest faculty in Thailand also specializing in tropical medicine. Thammasat for social sciences, law, polisci, international relations is solid. This is where Thailand's political activists often are found.

 

King Mongkut KMITL is coming on strong in I.T.

Has any of these graduates become professionals overseas

[Number 6]

Just now, BEVUP said:

Has any of these graduates become professionals overs

From my experience and what I encourage is for my students on the professional track is to focus on exams and licensure here. Then go overseas for graduate study. Students doing their undergrad work overseas and returning will face Thai professional exams and may very well run into problems.

 

If you are asking are they capable to pass medical licencing, I would say that with further study, coming from the top three medical schools it is possible. Also remember that the physicians track here is 6 years and in US for instance 8 years.

 

As for law school or CPA the student would also need focused study. CPA perhaps, law I think that it would be a redux.

 

I've no idea but in the grand scheme of things, my hunch is that int'l programs would only slightly better prepare students academically to practice overseas although most of Thai students largest barrier is true fluency in English which these programs do address.

[MaeJoMTB]

22 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Finally, I can also relay that unlike western universities, the interview plays next to no part in the process for international programs.

Have experience of UK University admissions,

Interviews are selected entirely on predicted grade, all candidates offered an interview, are offered a conditional place.

Personal statements are not read, interviews are mainly a sales pitch.

[BEVUP]

10 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

From my experience and what I encourage is for my students on the professional track is to focus on exams and licensure here. Then go overseas for graduate study. Students doing their undergrad work overseas and returning will face Thai professional exams and may very well run into problems.

 

If you are asking are they capable to pass medical licencing, I would say that with further study, coming from the top three medical schools it is possible. Also remember that the physicians track here is 6 years and in US for instance 8 years.

 

As for law school or CPA the student would also need focused study. CPA perhaps, law I think that it would be a redux.

 

I've no idea but in the grand scheme of things, my hunch is that int'l programs would only slightly better prepare students academically to practice overseas although most of Thai students largest barrier is true fluency in English which these programs do address.

I mentioned the overseas bit as it is knovvn in that community that Thais buy their degrees, but I also knovv they vvould be subject to practical & theory tests (vvhich may be up to a year ) before they could break out alone - this goes for many from (maybe ) certain countries 

 

PS: I'm in 2 minds vvhether to send my lad to University, as I see about 50,000 every yr coming out & most vvould end up like the pretty svveeping streets around BK 

 

I vvould prefer to send him to Tech Colledge & do a course follovved by several others as a add on to his main one he completed vvhich vvould only require a yr for each other one due to them being linked vvith his main one

[Number 6]

2 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Have experience of UK University admissions,

Interviews are selected entirely on predicted grade, all candidates offered an interview, are offered a conditional place.

Personal statements are not read, interviews are mainly a sales pitch.

That's unfortunate. I think the SoP and interview still can make a difference in the states. I'd like to think so at least.

 

At Chula, my (students) experience is that it did not. I had a student absolutely perfect for the BBA program, her SATs was only 1220 and she was not admitted to the international side. She will continue to try in subsequent rounds but also apply to Thai side. Really too bad because I can see multinational corporations fighting over her in a few years. Oh well.

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, BEVUP said:

I mentioned the overseas bit as it is knovvn in that community that Thais buy their degrees, but I also knovv they vvould be subject to practical & theory tests (vvhich may be up to a year ) before they could break out alone - this goes for many from (maybe ) certain countries 

Honestly, this does not sound like something smart people do. I think it rumor and blather.

 

I've no idea but I think doctors might have a huge number of hurdles. Two additional years of school, an internship, the exams...

 

Even someone not that clever would be able to learn that in order for them to practice in - a western country, they will need to pass exams and obtain licences. I doubt any of the faculties of medicine here are recognized by any regional board in the west. No idea. I could see someone graduating from Khon Kaen desiring to buy a degree from the top three but honestly in US it doesn't matter which school you graduate from, only that they are fully accredited. The professional must pass the exams.

 

For all intents and purposes degrees cannot be bought from top universities here. It might not be Singapore, but this is not the Philippines either.

[BEVUP]

6 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

It might not be Singapore, but this is not the Philippines either.

Actually I see quite a fevv philippines as Trades men compared to 1 thai in the heavy construction industry in Auss

 

& as for professionals, I don't recall seeing any Thais

[Number 6]

5 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Actually I see quite a fevv philippines as Trades men compared to 1 thai in the heavy construction industry in Auss

 

& as for professionals, I don't recall seeing any Thais

It's not their technical ability is better, it's their fluency in English. Most likely they have degrees in engineering, but still only doing trades jobs in construction. They often graduate with full medical degrees but only become nurses in US. Those with nursing degrees change bedsheets and pans.

 

Thailand is leaps and bounds ahead of the Philippines. Only university of Manila, the only school with a QS score in the whole of the nation. 125m people.

 

[Odysseus123]

16 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Actually I see quite a fevv philippines as Trades men compared to 1 thai in the heavy construction industry in Auss

 

& as for professionals, I don't recall seeing any Thais

That is the crux of it.

 

Working in the medical system in Oz-I saw no Thais-plenty from the Philippines,India (esp Kerala) Hong Kong and,latterly, South Korea.

[greenchair]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:55 PM, DavisH said:

SIIT (Thammasart University). Mahidol and Chula have similar programs in science, business, engineering, etc. 

You do have be careful and research your university and the degree that is offered. For example the thammasat degree in medicine is from an English programme and the dental is from a bilingual programme. Neither are international programmes. meaning neither has accreditation internationally. The degree would not be accepted in another country and might not even be accepted for top paying jobs in some cases in Thailand. There are many engineering management degrees, but let's not confuse that with a civil engineering degree. It's like chalk and cheese. Also be careful with the first one. Which is actually a bachelor of English with various topics pegged onto it as a major. So for example, I did a diploma in childhood education with credits in business. The part that was accredited was the business section. The early childhood was just a few modules from a proper childhood degree. In the end the diploma was useless to the field that I wanted. It's easy for the uni to make it look like you have an engineering degree when in fact you don't. 

[jayboy]

Have experience of UK University admissions,
Interviews are selected entirely on predicted grade, all candidates offered an interview, are offered a conditional place.
Personal statements are not read, interviews are mainly a sales pitch.

Not the case at Oxford and Cambridge to my certain knowledge and probably not also at other elite universities (Russell Group).

The reason for this is that at Oxbridge there are an excess of applications with A grade passes than places available.The interview is therefore seen as a critical means of assessing the candidates who would benefit from an Oxbridge education.




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[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Not the case at Oxford and Cambridge to my certain knowledge and probably not also at other elite universities (Russell Group).

The reason for this is that at Oxbridge there are an excess of applications with A grade passes than places available.The interview is therefore seen as a critical means of assessing the candidates who would benefit from an Oxbridge education.

 

Let me try and explain,

Universities are places that make money, it's a business and nothing more.

To make money all places need to be filled for the length of the course.

At the universities to which I had access, they offered 3x the places they had available at impossibly high pass requirements (AAA or AAAA)

Then after the exams were over and the results were in, they would take all the AAA students, then 'reluctantly' accept lower grades until all places +10% were filled.

During the first year 10% of students would fail or drop out, leaving years 2/3/4 at full capacity.

 

Don't really care about Oxbridge, they were different as they often had many students entering into 'preferred places', no need for good grades, mummy and daddy were important enough that their kids didn't need A grade passes to get places.

Also to be mentioned is the places for foreign students, grades not important just money. 

[jayboy]

50 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Let me try and explain,

Universities are places that make money, it's a business and nothing more.

To make money all places need to be filled for the length of the course.

At the universities to which I had access, they offered 3x the places they had available at impossibly high pass requirements (AAA or AAAA)

Then after the exams were over and the results were in, they would take all the AAA students, then 'reluctantly' accept lower grades until all places +10% were filled.

During the first year 10% of students would fail or drop out, leaving years 2/3/4 at full capacity.

 

Don't really care about Oxbridge, they were different as they often had many students entering into 'preferred places', no need for good grades, mummy and daddy were important enough that their kids didn't need A grade passes to get places.

Also to be mentioned is the places for foreign students, grades not important just money. 

You are stunningly ignorant about Oxbridge admissions (I'm talking undergraduate level), with a dollop it seems of old fashioned chip on the shoulder class prejudice.

 

If you would like to know exactly why you are talking nonsense about Oxbridge,I would be happy to enlighten you.On post graduate admissions you may have a point but not a very good one.

 

The tragedy is that some very bright children are discouraged by ignoramus teachers with low expectations for their charges from applying on the grounds "Oxbridge isn't for people like you." Fortunately there are some excellent outreach programmes now.

 

Elite universities like Oxford and Cambridge are not primarily money making businesses as you bizarrely claim.Your logic is also askew since if what you claim is true, Oxford and Cambridge would not consistently appear in the top 10 of all international university rankings.That couldn't happen if students were less than first rate quality.

[EVENKEEL]

My little girl is going to be first....Airline Hostess....then Movie Star.....I'm set.