Flying out 3 days after my 90 day report is due.

[PoorSucker]

2 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Thanks for the help everyone.  I had made up my mind to do a mail in report and then unexpectedly my wife has a business appointment with a client in the Eastern Seaboard / SrI Racha area tomorrow, Friday 2nd, so I will probably tag along on that and  do a personal report 10 days early; 

Your wife can report for you, no need to go in person. 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Goethe said:

The official statement:

 

"If you are a foreigner staying in Thailand for a period longer than 90 days holding a Non-Immigrant Visa, you are required by Thai Immigration to report your current address every 90 days.

 

You must file this report within 7 days before, or 7 days after, your 90-day period expires. However, if you leave Thailand anytime during the 90-day period, then the day count will restart from 1 upon your re-entry into Thailand."

 

Note: The obligation to report is waived only if you leave Thailand "during the 90-day period", not after it. Under a strict interpretation of the above wording the 7-day grace period applies only to those who remain in the kingdom. If you are planning to leave a day or two after the 90-day period, the ONLY totally safe option is to report. Even if no one has ever heard of someone being fined for not reporting and leaving the kingdom after 92 or 95 days, that means nothing: there is always a first time.

Where are you quoting this "official statement " from?

 

The obligation to report doesn't kick in until midnight on day 90 and immigration have to, by law, give people time (6 days) to report the address they are going to be staying at for the next 90 day period. If you leave within 7 days they have no interest in you reporting your address, because your not staying.

 

 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

For many (most?) of us who regularly do the 90 day report, there is no reporting of a "place of stay." We just hand over our passport with the previous report stapled in it, the barcode is read and a new report printed with no reporting of current address. We could be living in a cardboard box under a bridge, but the report needs to be made.

 

You are reporting your "place of stay". They are assuming it's the same as they have on record unless you submit a change of address. The whole point of a 90 day report is to update your "place of stay".

 

If you have moved in to a cardboard box you should complete a change of address when handing over your passport.

Edited February 1, 2018 by elviajero

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

You are given a seven day grace period to make a late report. It may be inconvenient to make use of this grace period, but that does not absolve you of the requirement to report. It is nonsensical to call this a 90-day report if, in fact, you only need to report being 96 consecutive days in the country.

Where does it state a 'grace' period.

Perhaps we interpret the English language differently, but Immigrations statement;

''An alien can notify 15 days before or 7 days after the 90th day. In case of the notification expired, an alien must notify by himself/herself and pay 2,000 baht fine. ''

That clearly states the period of 15 days before and 7 days after is a 'notification' period.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

No, the law reports asap, which has been determined to be 7 days.

By completing a departure card and giving it to immigration as you leave is equivalent to reporting that you are no longer resident in the country.

I like this better than how I thought it worked.  I am sure I have read many reports saying the opposite - but maybe all were guesswork. 

 

I would only note that the TM-6 seems not to count for reporting in any other way (TM28 or TM30) at a local office - so ymmv.

Edited February 1, 2018 by JackThompson

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

If the person stayed in the Kingdom for more than 90-days, and did not report, then they violated the law and could be fined when encountered by immigration in the future.  The rule is 90-days, not 97-days - the extra 7 days is for reporting w/o a fine if you don't leave.

 

Currently, 90-day reporting is not being enforced at airports - so this would only come up if he did something at an immigration office on a future visit.

You haven't violated any law. The law says you should report your address ASAP after day 90.

 

Based on your misunderstanding someone reporting on the first day the law says they need to report (day 91) is reporting late!

 

You are not considered to be reporting late unless you stay and report on day 97+.

 

The fact they don't check reporting records when you leave the country speaks volumes.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You are not considered to be reporting late unless you stay and report on day 97+.

 

The fact they don't check reporting records when you leave the country speaks volumes.

As far as enforcement on departure - aren't the 90-day reports all kept per local-office?  Or is there a nationwide DB? 

I think a person could stay for 300 days, never report, fly out ok, but then get a fine if they went back to immigration - correct?
 

It's the staying past 90, never reporting, and leaving before 97 which seems a bit fuzzy.  I am not saying they "for sure" would be fined later - just not sure on this.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Goethe said:

The official statement:

 

"If you are a foreigner staying in Thailand for a period longer than 90 days holding a Non-Immigrant Visa, you are required by Thai Immigration to report your current address every 90 days.

 

You must file this report within 7 days before, or 7 days after, your 90-day period expires. However, if you leave Thailand anytime during the 90-day period, then the day count will restart from 1 upon your re-entry into Thailand."

 

Note: The obligation to report is waived only if you leave Thailand "during the 90-day period", not after it. Under a strict interpretation of the above wording the 7-day grace period applies only to those who remain in the kingdom. If you are planning to leave a day or two after the 90-day period, the ONLY totally safe option is to report. Even if no one has ever heard of someone being fined for not reporting and leaving the kingdom after 92 or 95 days, that means nothing: there is always a first time.

FYI. thaiembassy.com, from where your quote comes, is not an official Thai immigration website and they are not quoting an official statement. It's an independent website that includes a lot of wrong information and opinion. The quote itself being an example. You can report within 15 days of the 90th day.

 

http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/90-day-reporting-immigration.php

 

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As far as enforcement on departure - aren't the 90-day reports all kept per local-office?  Or is there a nationwide DB? 

I think a person could stay for 300 days, never report, fly out ok, but then get a fine if they went back to immigration - correct?
 

It's the staying past 90, never reporting, and leaving before 97 which seems a bit fuzzy.  I am not saying they "for sure" would be fined later - just not sure on this.

Yes 90 day reports are kept at the local office and the airport IO's don't have access to those records. If immigration wanted to check everyone leaving had reported they could insist everyone show their receipt. The fact that they don't shows they're not interested.

 

Only your local office are interested that you keep them updated with your address, every 90 days, if your staying longer in the country.

 

Yes, IMO, if a person stayed 300 days without reporting immigration would be within their right to fine them at any point in the future, because a fine became due on day 97. Never known it happen though.

 

If someone stays 95 days and leaves without reporting they only stayed in the country for 95 days. Only people that stay longer than 96 days without reporting can be fined. Leaving within 97 days ensures those conditions can't be met. It is impossible, based on their own rules, for immigration to lawfully fine someone that didn't stay for 96 days. And their actions, or lack of, confirms they can't.

 

As I've pointed out several times, a report is not late unless it's made after staying continuously for 96+ days.

 

[rockingrobin]

31 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes 90 day reports are kept at the local office and the airport IO's don't have access to those records. If immigration wanted to check everyone leaving had reported they could insist everyone show their receipt. The fact that they don't shows they're not interested.

 

Only your local office are interested that you keep them updated with your address, every 90 days, if your staying longer in the country.

 

Yes, IMO, if a person stayed 300 days without reporting immigration would be within their right to fine them at any point in the future, because a fine became due on day 97. Never known it happen though.

 

If someone stays 95 days and leaves without reporting they only stayed in the country for 95 days. Only people that stay longer than 96 days without reporting can be fined. Leaving within 97 days ensures those conditions can't be met. It is impossible, based on their own rules, for immigration to lawfully fine someone that didn't stay for 96 days. And their actions, or lack of, confirms they can't.

 

As I've pointed out several times, a report is not late unless it's made after staying continuously for 96+ days.

 

On the hypothetical scenario of a person not reporting for 300 days, departing and then returning, at what point would it be deemed that they have complied with the law, (taking into account section 76, penalties, of the immigration act)

[Kopitiam]

OP, if you are looking for a definite answer to your question from TV, you will not get one.  Even if you go ask an IO you may also get different answers.  You know the rules for 90-day reporting.  You have 15 days before the date of reporting to go in.  If you chose to go later then the date, just be prepared to face the consequences.

[pontious]

16 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

OP, if you are looking for a definite answer to your question from TV, you will not get one.  Even if you go ask an IO you may also get different answers.  You know the rules for 90-day reporting.  You have 15 days before the date of reporting to go in.  If you chose to go later then the date, just be prepared to face the consequences.

 

There are no consequences if he goes 'later than the date' - you can report 15 days before or 7 days after the report date.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

On the hypothetical scenario of a person not reporting for 300 days, departing and then returning, at what point would it be deemed that they have complied with the law, (taking into account section 76, penalties, of the immigration act)

They haven't complied with the law in relation to the historical missed 90 day reports.

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

As I've pointed out several times, a report is not late unless it's made after staying continuously for 96+ days.

 

You have never explained, though, why it is called "a report of being 90 consecutive days in Thailand" and not "a report of being 96 consecutive days in Thailand".

 

Surely (under your interpretation) it would be much clearer to have the rule state that you must report any time you spend at least 96 consecutive days in Thailand, and you can lodge the notification up to 21 days before that date. That would (according to you) be the same, and avoid any ambiguity about whether it is a 90-day or 96-day report.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

You have never explained, though, why it is called "a report of being 90 consecutive days in Thailand" and not "a report of being 96 consecutive days in Thailand"

It is not “a report of being 90 consecutive days in Thailand”! It is known as a ‘90 day report’ because a report to update your address becomes due every 90 days.

 

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

Surely (under your interpretation) it would be much clearer to have the rule state that you must report any time you spend at least 96 consecutive days in Thailand, and you can lodge the notification up to 21 days before that date. That would (according to you) be the same, and avoid any ambiguity about whether it is a 90-day or 96-day report

I’m not interpreting anything. Clearly you don’t understand the purpose of the report. You are not reporting that you have stayed 90 days, but that you are staying longer and updating your address.

 

The obligation to update your address becomes due every 90 days. Immigration give you 6 days after the report becomes due to make the report. If you stay in the country, and report after 96 days, the report is deemed late and they can fine you for reporting late. If you leave the country within 97 days you cannot ever be fined because the report is never made late.

 

It really isn’t hard to understand.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I’m not interpreting anything. Clearly you don’t understand the purpose of the report. You are not reporting that you have stayed 90 days, but that you are staying longer and updating your address.

I think you are interpreting it wrong.

From section 37.

Quote

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the
competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days.

The reason for reporting is for staying longer than 90 days which then requires the notification of your place of stay. If you did not stay or intend to stay longer than 90 there is no need to do the report.

The title if the TM47 form IMO makes it clear what the report is for.

Quote

FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY OF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

 Immigration set a window of 7 days to define what they consider as soon as possible. They also set an allowance to do it early (now 15 days).

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is not “a report of being 90 consecutive days in Thailand”! It is known as a ‘90 day report’ because a report to update your address becomes due every 90 days.

This is what the TM47 form is called

Quote

FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY OF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

(The Thai version means the same thing)

 

The Thai Immigration Act (latest version) Section 37 (5) has this

Quote

Staying in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, an alien shall notify the competent official at the Immigration Division, of his or her residence, in writing, without delay, upon the completion of a ninety day period. This shall be repeated at every ninety day interval. If there is an immigration office in the locality, the notification may be made to the competent official of that immigration office.

 

You say

41 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The obligation to update your address becomes due every 90 days. Immigration give you 6 days after the report becomes due to make the report

and I agree with you. The six days to make a late report is for your convenience. It does not change the name of the form to "FORM ... STAYING LONGER THAN 96 DAYS"; nor does it does it change the wording on Section 37 (5). If you are 90 days in the country, submit a TM47. If you cannot report late, report on time.

[Tanoshi]

 Notification of Residence for Alien Who Stays in The Kingdom Over 90 Days Agency: Immigration Bureau, Royal Thai police
 
Regulations and conditions (if any) for the application and the consideration
 1. An alien who granted temporary permission to stay in the Kingdom must notify his/her residence to the Immigration officer every 90 days.
 2. An alien who exits the Kingdom before the next notification’s date must notify within 90 days of the arrival date.
 3. An alien can notify 15 days before or 7 days after the 90th day. In case of the notification expired, an alien must notify by himself/herself and pay 2,000 baht fine.

https://www.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_en12.pdf

 

Written in English, not a translation into English.

The report becomes due every 90 days, however the 'notification' period is 15 days before and up to 7 days after the report date.

You are advising/confirming your registered address is unchanged.

If you exit the Country before the end of the 'notification' period, your next report becomes due within 90 days of your return.

 

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

 Notification of Residence for Alien Who Stays in The Kingdom Over 90 Days Agency: Immigration Bureau, Royal Thai police
 
Regulations and conditions (if any) for the application and the consideration
 1. An alien who granted temporary permission to stay in the Kingdom must notify his/her residence to the Immigration officer every 90 days.
 2. An alien who exits the Kingdom before the next notification’s date must notify within 90 days of the arrival date.
 3. An alien can notify 15 days before or 7 days after the 90th day. In case of the notification expired, an alien must notify by himself/herself and pay 2,000 baht fine.

https://www.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_en12.pdf

 

Written in English, not a translation into English.

The report becomes due every 90 days, however the 'notification' period is 15 days before and up to 7 days after the report date.

You are advising/confirming your registered address is unchanged.

If you exit the Country before the end of the 'notification' period, your next report becomes due within 90 days of your return.

 

Even in English there is still some ambiguity

 

Take No.2  " must notify within 90 days",

Does this mean that a notification on day 90 or beyond is liable to a fine

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

I’m not interpreting anything. Clearly you don’t understand the purpose of the report. You are not reporting that you have stayed 90 days, but that you are staying longer and updating your address.

I think you are interpreting it wrong.

From section 37.

Quote

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the
competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days.

The reason for reporting is for staying longer than 90 days which then requires the notification of your place of stay. If you did not stay or intend to stay longer than 90 there is no need to do the report.

The title if the TM47 form IMO makes it clear what the report is for.

Quote

FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY OF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

 Immigration set a window of 7 days to define what they consider as soon as possible. They also set an allowance to do it early (now 15 days).

 

I assure you I am not "interpreting" it wrong. If you read section 37. 5 it clearly states that if you stay longer than 90 days you must notify your address ("place of stay").

 

The title of the TM.47 is misleading. You are making a notification because you are staying longer than 90 days, but the notification is your address.

 

If you beleive that the reason for notification is not to report your address, please explain why it says, on the receipt of notification (TM.47), "PLEASE NOTIFY YOUR ADDRESS AGAIN ON"

 

Also, if you want further clarification look at the online 90 day report page https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do which says,

 

According to The Immigration Act,B.E.2522,the foreigner who has received a temporary stay permit and stayed in the Kingdom of Thailand over 90 days must notify his residence to immigration officer every 90 days.

 

The reason we have to report every 90 days is to update our address.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

This is what the TM47 form is called

Quote

FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY OF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

(The Thai version means the same thing)

See the reply to UJ and same question to you. If you beleive that the reason for notification is not to report your address, please explain why it says, on the receipt of notification (TM.47), "PLEASE NOTIFY YOUR ADDRESS AGAIN ON"

 

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

You say

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

The obligation to update your address becomes due every 90 days. Immigration give you 6 days after the report becomes due to make the report

and I agree with you. The six days to make a late report is for your convenience. It does not change the name of the form to "FORM ... STAYING LONGER THAN 96 DAYS"; nor does it does it change the wording on Section 37 (5). If you are 90 days in the country, submit a TM47. If you cannot report late, report on time.

Again, you are not reporting late unless you report after the 96 days. Based on your logic someone reporting one minute after immigration opens on day 91 is reporting late. That is and would be nonsense. The law says we have to report ASAP ("without delay" in your translation) after day 90. ASAP/without delay is not time specific so immigration limit the period you can report (without a fine) to 6 days. You are not reporting late if reporting within 7 days of the report date.

 

Only you are intent on calling the 90 day report a 96 day report and renaming the TM.47! A report becomes due at midnight on day 90, which is why it's known as a "90 day report". The extra 6 days is simply the time they want you to have made the report by.

 

[watcharacters]

On 1/30/2018 at 3:05 PM, PoorSucker said:

You might get fined if they find out next time you make an extension. 

 

The seven days grace period will not remove your reporting obligation. 

 

 

 

Depending on where you report, you WILL NOT get fined!

 

 

 

[PoorSucker]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Depending on where you report, you WILL NOT get fined!

 

 

 

No, it depends on if the IO got spicy enough SomTan for lunch. ?

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

No, it depends on if the IO got spicy enough SomTan for lunch. ?

 

 

 

Bring a large packet of hot spice with you to immigration in that case.    555

 

 

 

 

[madisongy]

I am entering Thailand for the first time on my O-A visa on March 14.   I was figuring that I would have to report every 90 days, without exception.  I was not aware that travelling outside of the country would essentially "reset the clock" upon my return to Thailand.   Conceivably, in my first year, I will never be required to submit a report as long as I do not remain in the country for 90 consecutive days?  

 

My interpretation of the original issue:  If you are leaving after 93 days, you're obligated to report as you've exceeded the 90 day stay.