When Farangs Go Native

[MaeJoMTB]

8 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I believe people skills can prove to be as important to general everyday acceptance as language skills.

Many (if not most) elderly men around the world are happy, at home, on their own.

I have no need for people skills, internet action is about it, 'cos I can turn away at any time.

 

(Actually, I wish I were alone, my son is killing aliens on his tablet and it's very noisy, 2 of my wifes uni class are with me doing their own thing on laptops, wife and another student chatting at the table outside, teen on facebook in her room)

Edited February 11, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[overherebc]

23 minutes ago, Naam said:

those people are in my[not so]humble opinion just plain stupid. why it is anybody's business to object another person's desire to learn a language or acquire a citizenship is beyond my grasp. but it is also beyond my grasp why anybody would keep on raving, ranting and condemning foreigners with utmost ridiculous arguments who don't want or who are not capable to learn Thai.

It's the duty of every upstanding Englishman, of breeding, to point out to those who are in danger of 'going native' ( back on topic ) the error of their ways and to put them back on the right track.

[473geo]

2 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Many (if not most) elderly men around the world are happy, at home, on their own.

I have no need for people skills, internet action is about it, 'cos I can turn away at any time.

My experience in the UK is that many elderly men only go home when the pub is closed

But then I am from the north, a little more community and people orientated up there!!

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

It's the duty of every upstanding Englishman, of breeding, to point out to those who are in danger of 'going native' ( back on topic ) the error of their ways and to put them back on the right track.

Thank God I'm not English.

Although they colonised us, I'll fight for freedom till the day I die.

[bannork]

18 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Never met a subservient Thai lady yet ...... but I live in hope.

White women I generally avoid (in person) because a lot of them seem to want something, but have nothing to offer in return.

And all the 'cat women' around Chiang Mai ........ I don't even want to talk with them, sorry, if you're lonely go home.

The Thai phrase- klua mia- afraid of the wife -was not invented for nothing.

 

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

The woman who wrote the OP, I mean. Plus there's a few foreigners I've met who seem to resent the fact that a foreigner has spent time learning Thai and had the "audacity" to want to become one. I respect all that do. Those that don't, I respect their decision but don't usually believe their reasoning.

The resentment you describe is very real and there's a name for it: jealousy. While many Thais will provide encouragement and positive feedback when you speak Thai, most non-Thai-speaking foreign men become uncomfortable and grow increasingly irritated when they find themselves in the presence of another foreigner who speaks Thai. This is especially true if you have the temerity to start speaking Thai to their Thai girlfriend or wife.

 

In all the years I've been living here I can scarcely think of a single example of a foreign guy expressing admiration for my or any other foreign guy's Thai language skills. It's all: he's a 'show off', 'arrogant,' 'rude for speaking Thai when a non-Thai speaker is present,' catty discounting of their abilities, and some pretext for disliking you is quite often quickly found.

 

Bottom line? Most non-Thai speaking farang are threatened by another foreigner who speaks the language, because it often draws unwanted attention to what, especially outside of major cities, are the isolating and limiting realities of being solely dependent on the other person's English ability.

 

This may also help explain why some Thai speaking TVF members might come across as hungry for recognition of their language skills. It's because they rarely receive due recognition from their fellow ex-pats for something which oftentimes is a major life accomplishment.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Gecko123

[Naam]

4 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

most non-Thai-speaking foreign men become uncomfortable and grow increasingly irritated when they find themselves in the presence of another foreigner who speaks Thai.

i even shake with fear when i hear a foreigner speaking Thai.

[473geo]

5 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

The resentment you describe is very real and there's a name for it: jealousy. While many Thais will provide encouragement and positive feedback when you speak Thai, most non-Thai-speaking foreign men become uncomfortable and grow increasingly irritated when they find themselves in the presence of another foreigner who speaks Thai. This is especially true if you have the temerity to start speaking Thai to their Thai girlfriend or wife.

 

In all the years I've been living here I can scarcely think of a single example of a foreign guy expressing admiration for my or any other foreign guy's Thai language skills. It's all: he's a 'show off', 'arrogant,' 'rude for speaking Thai when a non-Thai speaker is present,' catty discounting of their abilities, and some pretext for disliking you is quite often quickly found.

 

Bottom line? Most non-Thai speaking guys are threatened by another foreigner who speaks the language, because it often draws unwanted attention to what, especially outside of major cities, are the isolating and limiting realities of being solely dependent on the other person's English ability.

 

This may also help explain why some Thai speaking TVF members might come across as hungry for recognition of their language skills. It's because they rarely receive due recognition from their fellow ex-pats for something which oftentimes is a major life accomplishment.

I would not be threatened by any person speaking Thai to my wife, I understand how proud you guys must be, and no problem with you putting your Thai language skills on display.

 

However my wife would probably be embarrassed by the fact that I may not understand what was being said, and, prefer to conduct a conversation in English. Preferably also not directly to her.

 

That's your lack of people skills showing, I mentioned earlier.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

I would not be threatened by any person speaking Thai to my wife, I understand how proud you guys must be, and no problem with you putting your Thai language skills on display.

 

However my wife would probably be embarrassed by the fact that I may not understand what was being said, and, prefer to conduct a conversation in English. Preferably also not directly to her.

 

That's your lack of people skills showing, I mentioned earlier.

My wife who was educated overseas would most likely point out to you that it's quite rude to do so. She may or may not compliment on your Thai speaking skills but she would do it in English.

It's similar to parents telling children not to whisper because if you have something to say and you're in company then it is or should be something for all to hear.

Edit.

Not directed at you but I'm sure you got that.

Edited February 11, 2018 by overherebc

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

The resentment you describe is very real and there's a name for it: jealousy. While many Thais will provide encouragement and positive feedback when you speak Thai, most non-Thai-speaking foreign men become uncomfortable and grow increasingly irritated when they find themselves in the presence of another foreigner who speaks Thai. This is especially true if you have the temerity to start speaking Thai to their Thai girlfriend or wife.

 

In all the years I've been living here I can scarcely think of a single example of a foreign guy expressing admiration for my or any other foreign guy's Thai language skills. It's all: he's a 'show off', 'arrogant,' 'rude for speaking Thai when a non-Thai speaker is present,' catty discounting of their abilities, and some pretext for disliking you is quite often quickly found.

 

Bottom line? Most non-Thai speaking farang are threatened by another foreigner who speaks the language, because it often draws unwanted attention to what, especially outside of major cities, are the isolating and limiting realities of being solely dependent on the other person's English ability.

 

This may also help explain why some Thai speaking TVF members might come across as hungry for recognition of their language skills. It's because they rarely receive due recognition from their fellow ex-pats for something which oftentimes is a major life accomplishment.

You realise 'temerity' means excessive or extreme over-confidence.

[wildewillie89]

I don't think people are threatened by someone speaking Thai. I, personally, have congratulated Thai speakers (even in this thread) many times. Just like I will admire anyone who has some sort of skill (whether that be language, academia, sport, whatever). I think most people (who are not incredibly unhappy) probably do that. 

I think it is problematic when people actively seek admiration for their skill from a complete stranger. After a few times of this happening that stranger probably groups all the people with the same skill together. If the topic of language comes up then that is when the admiration should be given, not stopping people in the street asking for them to pat your back because you speak Thai. I liken it to the reputation vegans have got now. A quality/skill that should be looked favourably upon has been tarnished by those who hold it due to how important they now think they are.  

 

It is great some people can speak a second language, however, just don't try to tell us that you can for no other reason than to feel special about yourself, or to put those who cannot down, or to try and dictate how others should live their lives, or my personal favourite, that your opinion is somehow more credible because you spoke to your uneducated neighbour.

I think for people to be unnecessarily putting down complete strangers on the family structure they have set up suggests insecurities somewhere. Maybe they haven't been welcomed into the country like they thought they would so language is what they fall back on to get the upper hand. Just focus on your own lives, we are adults now, we don't need to compare our lives to others to feel good like we used to back in high school.

Edited February 11, 2018 by wildewillie89

[metisdead]

Some off topic, inflammatory and offensive posts and replies have been removed. 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Sorry, I missed this post. 

 

Do you have any regrets not learning Thai when you moved here 20 +years ago? How long have you been deaf?

 

Did you learn to read, if not, why?

 

 

When I was working here back in the 1990s I tried learning one on one with a good Thai teacher but I still couldn't learn then. I have been partly deaf since the 1960s and 70s due to working on jet aircraft without adequate hearing protection.

 

There is not much use in reading a language if you cannot speak it.

6 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Who rattled your cage? Please explain your flame, rather than just spout it.

 

How long have you lived here? Do you live in a village? Can you speak the Thai language?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you are another retired hermit, unable to speak to your neighbours. let me take a wild guess, you have a hearing disability  

 

YOU rattled my cage with your assumption that everybody MUST learn to speak Thai or they are a failure in life in Thailand.

 

YOU assume that only YOU can dictate to others what they MUST do.

 

I live in a small Thai moo ban in rural Khampaeng Phet, NOT a gated farang ghetto and yes I can speak to my neighbours and yes I do have a hearing disability.

 

You have just proved your arrogance and ignorance by making assumptions once again, though to give you credit you got my hearing disability correct.

 

I have lived here for 14 years and I get on well with my neighbours and the people in the moo ban despite my lack of spoken Thai and their lack of spoken English.

 

Can you not understand that nobody really cares what you think or say

[EVENKEEL]

5 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Walter White, and you used to be a high school chemistry teacher ......... then you moved to Thailand with a container full of $$$$, leaving everyone behind thinking you had died of cancer.

Breaking Bad has to be one of the best shows ever.

[nausea]

OK I eat rice for breakfast, and I even think some ladyboys have a certain theoretical (honest) charm, but when I can sit on a squat toilet with panache and elan, then I will truly have gone native. I would say language is very low on my list, you know enough to get by, but what we gonna talk about - the price of rice?

[overherebc]

Biggest problem with learning Thai compared to say Italian or German is the written Thai.

At least with German or Italian you can sit down and read it and use a dictionary.  If you haven't mastered the Thai alphabet it makes things more difficult.

Saying that I worked with one guy who found the alphabet easy to remember and within a year could read, write and speak Thai. Scarey!!!!

[JLCrab]

The big problem once you have learned the alphabet may be no spaces between the words. And I have a great unofficial family here but none of them speaks English.

Edited February 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[MaeJoMTB]

10 hours ago, overherebc said:

Biggest problem with learning Thai compared to say Italian or German is the written Thai.

About 4 weeks to master the alphabet, it ain't hard.

[vogie]

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The big problem once you have learned the alphabet may be no spaces between the words. And I have a great unofficial family here but none of them speaks English.

This may help your family to learn english, it's so funny, but I wonder if some of us sound the same to Thais after learning a thai word?

 

[Naam]

11 hours ago, nausea said:

but what we gonna talk about - the price of rice?

and chicken feet dipped in pla ra.

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

About 4 weeks to master the alphabet, it ain't hard.

True for some. Not true for others. 

Most of my working time here all the contracts and specifications for the work were in English, either EU specs or US specs, so very little Thai was used and the vast majority of the Thai managers/Engineers spoke in English. 

It just became habit to use it all the time for everyone.

 

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, Naam said:

and chicken feet dipped in pla ra.

With a side dish of Duck Bills.

[Naam]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

With a side dish of Duck Bills.

and a desert of crisp fried woolly spiders.

[MaeJoMTB]

7 minutes ago, Naam said:

and a desert of crisp fried woolly spiders.

Bloody Germans, we Brits know it should be cricket(s)!

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Bloody Germans, we Brits know it should be cricket(s)!

And, just to finish off the day you can visit Soi 6 and get Spotted Dick.   ???

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

This may help your family to learn english, it's so funny, but I wonder if some of us sound the same to Thais after learning a thai word?

 

Tukky is funny but would better help my ersatz family learn English is if they wanted to learn English but since this is Thailand and they speak Thai pretty well, they seem to be able to get along without it.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Tukky is funny but would better help my ersatz family learn English is if they wanted to learn English but since this is Thailand and they speak Thai pretty well, they seem to be able to get along without it.

I used to enjoy Allo Allo with Constable Crabtree's French, always made me think that was the way my German might sound to native speakers.

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

The resentment you describe is very real and there's a name for it: jealousy. While many Thais will provide encouragement and positive feedback when you speak Thai, most non-Thai-speaking foreign men become uncomfortable and grow increasingly irritated when they find themselves in the presence of another foreigner who speaks Thai. This is especially true if you have the temerity to start speaking Thai to their Thai girlfriend or wife.

 

In all the years I've been living here I can scarcely think of a single example of a foreign guy expressing admiration for my or any other foreign guy's Thai language skills. It's all: he's a 'show off', 'arrogant,' 'rude for speaking Thai when a non-Thai speaker is present,' catty discounting of their abilities, and some pretext for disliking you is quite often quickly found.

 

Bottom line? Most non-Thai speaking farang are threatened by another foreigner who speaks the language, because it often draws unwanted attention to what, especially outside of major cities, are the isolating and limiting realities of being solely dependent on the other person's English ability.

 

This may also help explain why some Thai speaking TVF members might come across as hungry for recognition of their language skills. It's because they rarely receive due recognition from their fellow ex-pats for something which oftentimes is a major life accomplishment.

I think you hit the nail on the head here - jealousy, or not getting any recognition for other languages they speak  - good post.  

 

Very true about those who can't speak Thai, but speak other languages like Urdu or Mongolian. They seem to want some recognition that they are good language learners, intelligent, important, when really nobody cares. The fact is, they live in Thailand and refuse, yes refuse to learn Thai. This could be a combination of factors like no need for it, laziness, or an attitude that Thais should learn English, feel they are too old, racial comments like Thais only speak about pla ra etc. Bad hearing, come on... They will never just say it is too difficult for them, or they lack the self-discipline or perseverance. That reminds me of an old friend, now deceased, who said he was born with a hearing defect in one ear and that was the reason he couldn't speak Thai. I remember being in his car and him asking me to ask the driver to turn left. He had only been in Thailand for 30 years! Yet always talked about how he was fluent in 7 languages and had recently met the ex-princes of Cambodia on their recent trip to Bangkok and spoke French the whole time. He also spoke of how he learned fluent Russian in 6 months, which I know now, was when he was in the CIA, after the release of his autobiography after his death. He was the second in command in the US Embassy for many years. Thailand was his home, he got the Order of the White Elephant from HM the King, yet couldn't say, "turn left" to his wife's driver. A wonderful, charming, intelligent man, yet felt he had no need to speak Thai as he never needed it at work, his Thai wife was educated in England. He lived in the apartment above me and was a slight recluse, probably due to not speaking the local language. There is some kind of aversion with some people. Like they are amazing linguists and don't  want others to think they are beginners at Thai. Born in Europe, escaping to the USA during the war, getting a degree from Harvard, being a real-life 007, couldn't face the ridicule of those pesky Siamese laughing at his pronunciation.  Yet, collected antiques and had the largest collection of Cambodian silver in Thailand. Could never go out to markets without a translator. He could decipher ancient Kymer/Sanskrit/Chinese scripts on some of his artifacts, yet never tried to learn basic Thai writing, nor how to say turn left! 

 

As someone mentioned reading , it's easy. I've always been terrible at languages yet learned the Thai alphabet in a few days and learned how to write in 1 month. 1 hour a week with an AUA book. If anyone thinks I'm being arrogant, I'm not. Like I said, I suck at languages,failing Higher French, yet forced myself to sit down with a book in Lumpini park for 1 hour a day.

 

[MrPatrickThai]

My ignorance  I suggest you get another teacher. 

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

When I was working here back in the 1990s I tried learning one on one with a good Thai teacher but I still couldn't learn then.

 

 

 

[billd766]

Just now, MrPatrickThai said:

My ignorance  I suggest you get another teacher. 

 

 

 

 

Why?