New RAM or new laptop?

[MJKT2014]

Hi,

 

I've got a trusty 6 year old laptop (was high end model 6 years ago), working well still with latest Win10. Now on boot up sometimes the Win10 hangs, needs a power on/off restart and sometimes starts after going thro the Win10 re boot  methods or recommends I do a system recovery with recovery media? But by chance I notice I can get around this failure to boot by simply taking back cover off, taking out the two 4GB ram cards and returning the exact same ram cards again in same slots, or reverse slots. Then I boot up normally without incident. The laptop may boot up for several weeks well before I encounter situation again.

 

So, is it worth buying new ram cards or could the problem be any number of other technical issues and with the laptop being 6 years old I need to buy a new one?

 

Appreciate advice thanks.

Edited February 1, 2018 by MJKT2014

[Oxx]

Technology has moved on a lot in six years.  For me, SSDs are amazing.  Boot times are so much faster.  Therefore I'd be inclined to say farewell to the old laptop.

[Pib]

My guess is you have a Windows corruption problem and not a RAM problem, especially if you are running Win 10 ver "1709."   While the RAM removal/reinsertion appears on the surface to be the problem, I doubt it is....that's just a head fake.

 

In Dec 17 I had to reinstall Win 10 1709 on both my Lenovo laptop which are around 3 to 4 years old...running i7 and i5 CPU, 8GB RAM, Samsung 500GB SSDs.  I basically did a Reset of the operating system. They had been operating fine on version 1703...my problem started shortly after upgrading from 1703 to 1709. 

 

The problem both laptops developed on 1709 was I couldn't reliably do a "Restart" which is required for some driver updates, Windows updates, and other things.   Restarts are different than a Power Down/Up.    If doing a Restart the laptops would generate a "Boot Device Inaccessible" blue screen of death and I then I had to do a Restore Point to reload a good configuration.   Just something during the Restart would cause the computer to lose drive configuration settings and not be able to find the drive during a Restart....you could do a Power Down/Up all day and it would boot up properly....but if your new drivers/Windows update required a "Restart" then you were told at that time a Restart was needed to complete the update.  Yeap, a Restart is just all to often required.

 

Did all the typical things to rule out malware....I run Norton 360 antivirus all the time...did scan using Malwarebytes ...etc...both laptops showed no malware.   

 

I tried many, many things in trying to fine the problem.

 

Even chatted online with Microsoft Tech Support.  They strongly recommended a a OS Reset...it was as if during the conversation they were hinting to me they are getting many complaints with version 1709 regarding Restarts. 

 

Anyway, I did the OS Reset on both laptops in late Dec 17....both been working fine since....no more problems with Restarts.

 

 

 

[tifino]

What of one were to laterally test if it's actually hard/firmware, by, for a similar period of time & restarts - using a Ubuntu USB stick?

[steve187]

i think a fresh install of windows 10 avoiding  1709 version is called for, i had problems with my i7, 8gb  laptop  running windows 10 and after upgrading to 1709, had nothing but problems, including taking a long long time to boot, I found a good version of windows 10 pro - (10.0.16299 build 16299), starts on the button now, with 0 problems

Edited February 1, 2018 by steve187

[MJKT2014]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Anyway, I did the OS Reset on both laptops in late Dec 17...

Hi Pib,

 

Very helpful, thank you.

 

Your description sounds identical to my problems. I have an HP laptop with i7Core 8GB with a six yr old SSD for the o/s drive with another HDD built in for data. I think I can only recall noticing this error since Win10 upgraded itself to ver 1709 a few months ago. 

 

By OS reset do you mean just a fresh install of latest 1709 or having to install an older ver of Win10 as another post referred to since 1709 is a problem? I would rather use latest 1709 o/s if possible I think?

[MJKT2014]

4 hours ago, tifino said:

using a Ubuntu USB stick?

I've tried Linux on a stick, seems OK each time. Not my system of choice tho and fault I get in Win10 only every few weeks.

[MJKT2014]

6 hours ago, Oxx said:

Therefore I'd be inclined to say farewell to the old laptop.

I bought one of the first SSDs in the laptop (160GB for over 400USD by Intel), still boots up fast in under 15 seconds I think. Except when it doesn't boot at all! 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Hi Pib,

 

Very helpful, thank you.

 

Your description sounds identical to my problems. I have an HP laptop with i7Core 8GB with a six yr old SSD for the o/s drive with another HDD built in for data. I think I can only recall noticing this error since Win10 upgraded itself to ver 1709 a few months ago. 

 

By OS reset do you mean just a fresh install of latest 1709 or having to install an older ver of Win10 as another post referred to since 1709 is a problem? I would rather use latest 1709 o/s if possible I think?

Basically reinstalling your current version be it 1 709 or whatever version you have installed.   A Reset takes a Win 10 image that is already on your drive and uses that to Reset/reinstall Win 10.    Since 1709 was on my laptops; the reset just reinstalled 1709.  This Reset offers two options....one option is it uninstalls most apps but all your data files (i.e., images, docs, just any data file you created, etc) is retained....this is the option I used on both laptops.  The second option is a clean install where all your apps and data are nuked.   The Reset this PC selection is in the Update & Security menu of Win 10...see below.

 

If your problem is identical to mine you should be able to spot confirmation by using Task Manager.  Open Task Manager and watch the Processes running.   If you see Windows Modules Installer (WMI) Worker "running quite often" and eating up around 20% of your CPU horsepower then you most likely have a corruption problem and Windows is trying to fix it but it won't have an luck.   Just use Task Manager to monitor for this abnormal WMI Worker processes.  It's an intermittent problem.

 

WMI runs anytime apps, drivers, Windows updates are installed and for routine maintenance in the background but WMI Worker should only run a few minutes.    If it runs "a lot" and for a good length of time (say over 10 minutes) like what was happening to me, then you have a corruption problem.

 

I found whenever I did a Restart when WMI was running and would end up with the blue screen of death/Boot Device Inaccessible; if WMI was not running the Restart would work OK.   I stumbled upon this WMI issue while troubling shooting my problem.  When Windows is working properly even if WMI was running like for routine maintenance, etc., it should stop and allow you to do a Restart successfully.  But if a corruption problem exists WMI gets all confused, doesn't shutdown properly, and causes the blue screen of death during the Restart.   

 

Yeap, both of my laptops have worked fine since I Reset my PC the last week of Dec 17.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Pib

[Pib]

Speaking of WMI Worker its MS Update time....got to watch WMI Worker run as it downloaded/installed KB4058258 just released today.  After completing the install WMI Worker shutdown like it was suppose to.   Download/install went OK...it had to Restart to complete the install and that went OK.   After that restart I monitored Task Manager Processes and saw WMI Worker run for maybe another 15 second then it shutdown like it was suppose to.    I also did another Restart just for gee-whizs and it went OK also.

 

 

[MJKT2014]

Thanks Pib, helpful as ever. Appreciated. I have noticed WMI Worker taking a CPU load in the past, usually after a Win10 update and running for several days when I booted up each time until I stopped it in taskmanager as it was impacting on my other applications CPU usage. Not so much as of late or before recent incident described in my o/p. I will definitely try the Reset method before spending money on any upgrades now I understand what you mean.

[Pib]

10 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Thanks Pib, helpful as ever. Appreciated. I have noticed WMI Worker taking a CPU load in the past, usually after a Win10 update and running for several days when I booted up each time until I stopped it in taskmanager as it was impacting on my other applications CPU usage. Not so much as of late or before recent incident described in my o/p. I will definitely try the Reset method before spending money on any upgrades now I understand what you mean.

As part of routine maintenance/startup it will also usually run when you first start the computer.  I just checked the Windows CBS.log and it ran when I turned the computer on this morning....ran for 1 minute 4 seconds.

 

[jenny2017]

OP, no idea if you've already solved your problem, if not please try these steps:

 

 

   Your machine isn't too old, my notebook is nine now and does a great job/. A Dell Inspiron 1440 with only 4 GB of memory.

 

  It's normal that the Windows Modules Installer needs a lot of resources from your CPU and your hard drive.  And of course your memory will be used up. 

 

 

 

The Windows Update troubleshooter can find and fix problems with Windows Update that could cause issues to occur. To run it on Windows 10, head to Settings > Update & security > Troubleshoot > Windows Update > Run the troubleshooter. Apply any fixes the troubleshooter suggests.

If the troubleshooter doesn’t help, you may want to try using the SFC or DISM tools to scan your computer for corrupted or missing system files.

 

Please see all here: https://www.howtogeek.com/316122/what-is-windows-modules-installer-worker-and-why-is-it-running-on-my-pc/

Edited February 3, 2018 by jenny2017

[Pib]

Above are good suggestions....definitely give them a try.   

 

I did them all...the Troubleshooter....the SFC....the DISM plus a bunch of other stuff over almost a month....nothing fixed my my Restart problem and excessive running of the WMI Worker.    Either the Troubleshooter would find no problem or say it fixed some problem....and SFC and DISM didnt' find any file corruption.    I finally relented and did the Reset which fixed my problem on both laptops.    As mentioned earlier my problem appeared after the upgrade from 1703 to 1709.  

 

[MJKT2014]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Above are good suggestions....definitely give them a try.   

 

I did them all...the Troubleshooter....the SFC....the DISM plus a bunch of other stuff over almost a month....nothing fixed my my Restart problem and excessive running of the WMI Worker.    Either the Troubleshooter would find no problem or say it fixed some problem....and SFC and DISM didnt' find any file corruption.    I finally relented and did the Reset which fixed my problem on both laptops.    As mentioned earlier my problem appeared after the upgrade from 1703 to 1709.  

Thanks to Jenny2017, I agree her tips are good and I should have mentioned that I have already done them a while ago.

 

I was thinking since the troubleshooting, sfc etc found nothing, I had hardware fault after that especially when I moved ram cards and laptop booted normally, but now with Pib s info I seem to have exactly as he describes (above quote). Therefore my next step will ve Reset as soon as situation becomes too much and/or I get the time. Now I'm using the laptop everyday for work, so a putting it off a bit and it seems to boot OK for a week or more now without issue.

[jenny2017]

12 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

Thanks to Jenny2017, I agree her tips are good and I should have mentioned that I have already done them a while ago.

 

I was thinking since the troubleshooting, sfc etc found nothing, I had hardware fault after that especially when I moved ram cards and laptop booted normally, but now with Pib s info I seem to have exactly as he describes (above quote). Therefore my next step will ve Reset as soon as situation becomes too much and/or I get the time. Now I'm using the laptop everyday for work, so a putting it off a bit and it seems to boot OK for a week or more now without issue.

Have you ever cleaned the contacts of your memory cards with an eraser? Often a very easy and effective fix. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by jenny2017

[Digitalbanana]

21 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

Have you ever cleaned the contacts of your memory cards with an eraser? Often a very easy and effective fix. 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Digitalbanana

[damole]

It might also be worth running Memtest86.

 

https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm

[sammieuk1]

Use Windows 10 Media Creation Tool to Create Installation Media or Upgrade PC http://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-10-media-creation-tool-create-installation-media-upgrade

You can reinstall windows and keep your files if does not work you will know what to do . From memory I think you go to download for another pc put it on a stick and your good to go.

[Formaleins]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:23 PM, Pib said:

Above are good suggestions....definitely give them a try.   

 

I did them all...the Troubleshooter....the SFC....the DISM plus a bunch of other stuff over almost a month....nothing fixed my my Restart problem and excessive running of the WMI Worker.    Either the Troubleshooter would find no problem or say it fixed some problem....and SFC and DISM didnt' find any file corruption.    I finally relented and did the Reset which fixed my problem on both laptops.    As mentioned earlier my problem appeared after the upgrade from 1703 to 1709.  

 

Windows troubleshooters are basically useless. Even getting SFC and DISM to work correctly is often impossible. Best to see if you can do a fresh install from USB, and use UEFI BIOS if possible (maybe the 6 year old board is compatible?)

[Classic Ray]

I had a similar problem with my 2007 MacBook Pro which like the story of the broom has had three new heads and four new handles, but still works fine, mostly!  Tried new RAM, made sure it was seated properly, no improvement. In the end, some deep examination revealed disk directory errors, fixing that sorted it out.

 

I'm waiting for someone to put a really nice front end on Linux that takes away any need to use the command line or terminal, and allows you to install or update software and devices as easily as Windows or Mac OSX. I think a system like that would attract a lot of users of old and new machines who want the reliability and cheapness of Linux but the ease of use of Win/OSX. None of the Linux Lite/Ubuntu etc incarnations does enough yet.

 

  Maybe Microsoft will produce something like that soon? 

[iang]

Just as a side issue, swapping over a brand new SSD drive for a laptop's old HDD will transform an old laptop & give it a completely new lease of life!

 

If your laptop has a built in DVD / CD drive, you can buy a replacement tray on ebay that converts the space taken up by an old DVD drive (once removed) to an additional HDD or SSD. So after swapping over your old HDD for a super fast SSD, you can even reinstall your old HDD as an additional drive in the old DVD / CD ROM drive, using a replacement tray!

[Pdavies99]

Actually on older laptops etc, the ram chip connection gets "dirty", a trick that often resolves this is cleaning the ram connector with a pencil rubber, it works many times!

[CliffH]

47 minutes ago, Pdavies99 said:

Actually on older laptops etc, the ram chip connection gets "dirty", a trick that often resolves this is cleaning the ram connector with a pencil rubber, it works many times!

 

Cleaning the RAM module edge connectors with isopropyl alcohol is my method.  Less chance of static damage to the chips than using the rubber.

[1sickpuppy]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:49 AM, Oxx said:

Technology has moved on a lot in six years.  For me, SSDs are amazing.  Boot times are so much faster.  Therefore I'd be inclined to say farewell to the old laptop.

Download Driver booster 5.2 is free & look on you tube is easy to get the pro for free, it fixed my problems on old pc that was crashing IRQ not less or equal, give it a try before wasting money on the i7 garbage. i do gaming use old 775 extremes . to get the same of new shit costs 40.000 plus & still runs all latest game  mae pan rai, try it

[MJKT2014]

On ‎06‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 9:32 AM, damole said:

It might also be worth running Memtest86.

 

https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm

Yes, done that 100% pass.

[MJKT2014]

18 hours ago, 1sickpuppy said:

Download Driver booster 5.2 is free

Not keen on this, comes with too many prompts to buy and malware detected. I use Driver Easy which is free and doesn't leave junk on my PC for AntiMalware to detect.

[MJKT2014]

23 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

the ram chip connection gets "dirty",

I notice the contacts on my RAM chips and various shades of gold color? Shouldn't they all be same shade? Is this a sign of old age or need for cleaning. I got no cleaning gear where I am at moment.

Edited February 7, 2018 by MJKT2014

[MJKT2014]

23 hours ago, iang said:

Just as a side issue, swapping over a brand new SSD drive for a laptop's old HDD

Yes, when I bought this laptop new 7 years ago I swapped out to an SSD on day 1. 

[MJKT2014]

On ‎01‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 6:18 PM, Pib said:

A Reset takes a Win 10 image that is already on your drive and uses that to Reset/reinstall Win 10.

Still haven't had time to do a reset but I have changed the Windows power off/on settings to normal speed from fast speed as it was default high speed hidden away in power settings of Win10. Now my problems seem to have gone away for now and PC boots every time. I wonder if the Reset and fast power on/off issues are related?