bearpolar Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I kind of want to buy one to go shopping and then ill buy a moded honda brio to pull my boat just to piss people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, bearpolar said: I kind of want to buy one to go shopping and then ill buy a moded honda brio to pull my boat just to piss people off. Seems to be a major leap forward It produces 500 Newton metres of torque with the 2 Litre when the old 3.2 litre 5 cylinder was only good for 470 Newton metres A v8 petrol would also be cool but how many would they sell in a third world country like Thailand? The North American one will probably get a v6 gasoline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwak250 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, JaseTheBass said: Why would you put an older, less powerful engine in it? Looks like skmeone has opened a box of frogs judging from the stupidity of most replies in this thread by people who obviously don't have a clue. This is not a TuRD product with stick on plastic bits, but a totally re-engineered product that has no peers in the local market. Sent from my R2D2 droid using my C3P0 manservant This looks very much like lots of plastic bits to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseTheBass Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 This looks very much like lots of plastic bits to me!That's because you clearly don't know what you're looking at.Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canopy Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 9 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: Just to clarify - as most members here just have no clue how horsepower is calculated nor what they are looking at: Your explanation wasn't that clear to be honest. Let's keep this simple. The marketing people at car companies understand the general public only look at peak HP. Most people would be confused to learn a car with less HP could beat a car with more HP. Only the more technical people know that when looking at an engine, it's more important to look at the torque curve. The peak HP number the marketing people dangle at you is often at very high RPMs that aren't useful in typical driving. You should care more how good the car pulls from a standing start at 1000 RPM. Or when you push the throttle when cruising at 2000 RPM. Tiny 4-banger engines like that found in the raptor typically fall flat on their face trying to supply good power at low RPMs. They have to rev really high to get the power on. Ford understands this and installed a 10 speed transmission help keep the revs from falling into the dead zone ranges. But it's only a band aid solution and they are getting eggs and tomatoes thrown at them for this decision. Would a raptor beat a vigo in a drag race? Maybe, but who cares because a vigo is just an everyday grocery getter. The raptor was supposed to be this mean super truck, but the engine isn't tough at all. I repeat what the Ford chief engineer said "If you’re talking about power; if you’re focused on power, that’s not a Raptor. That’s not what Raptor’s about." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, canopy said: Your explanation wasn't that clear to be honest. Let's keep this simple. The marketing people at car companies understand the general public only look at peak HP. Most people would be confused to learn a car with less HP could beat a car with more HP. Only the more technical people know that when looking at an engine, it's more important to look at the torque curve. The peak HP number the marketing people dangle at you is often at very high RPMs that aren't useful in typical driving. You should care more how good the car pulls from a standing start at 1000 RPM. Or when you push the throttle when cruising at 2000 RPM. Tiny 4-banger engines like that found in the raptor typically fall flat on their face trying to supply good power at low RPMs. They have to rev really high to get the power on. Ford understands this and installed a 10 speed transmission help keep the revs from falling into the dead zone ranges. But it's only a band aid solution and they are getting eggs and tomatoes thrown at them for this decision. Would a raptor beat a vigo in a drag race? Maybe, but who cares because a vigo is just an everyday grocery getter. The raptor was supposed to be this mean super truck, but the engine isn't tough at all. I repeat what the Ford chief engineer said "If you’re talking about power; if you’re focused on power, that’s not a Raptor. That’s not what Raptor’s about." Normal people (thais) don't want (can't affford) a super truck Ford has to worry about the emissions and the taxes and the fuel economy and keeping all those things under control or they will only be able to sell a handful per country It's not that they can't put a 7 litre petrol in it, its just not worth their while.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, canopy said: Your explanation wasn't that clear to be honest. Let's keep this simple. The marketing people at car companies understand the general public only look at peak HP. Most people would be confused to learn a car with less HP could beat a car with more HP. Only the more technical people know that when looking at an engine, it's more important to look at the torque curve. The peak HP number the marketing people dangle at you is often at very high RPMs that aren't useful in typical driving. You should care more how good the car pulls from a standing start at 1000 RPM. Or when you push the throttle when cruising at 2000 RPM. Tiny 4-banger engines like that found in the raptor typically fall flat on their face trying to supply good power at low RPMs. They have to rev really high to get the power on. Ford understands this and installed a 10 speed transmission help keep the revs from falling into the dead zone ranges. But it's only a band aid solution and they are getting eggs and tomatoes thrown at them for this decision. Would a raptor beat a vigo in a drag race? Maybe, but who cares because a vigo is just an everyday grocery getter. The raptor was supposed to be this mean super truck, but the engine isn't tough at all. I repeat what the Ford chief engineer said "If you’re talking about power; if you’re focused on power, that’s not a Raptor. That’s not what Raptor’s about." Dude if you’re in the market for a truck and weighing the pros & cons of gas vs diesel and you don’t know that a diesel will have less HP and more TQ than a gas engine then you probably shouldn’t even be buying a truck, let alone commenting on it. Modern engines are are extremely efficient and todays turbos will blow your mind. Ford rolled this this truck out in Thailand for a reason. To compete in the Thailand market. From what’s available in Thailand, it is more capable than any other available truck, hands down and the facts & specs don’t lie. In fact it’s appears to be better than most comparable US trucks. And torque is literally what gets the truck moving. Low-end power. From a stop. Why? Because torque is what you get at LOW RPM. ANYONE that offroads will tell you that torque is more important than HP Anyway if if you’re in Thailand and you can find another factory truck in the same class that is more capable and more powedful I’d be happy to see it. Edited February 10, 2018 by UncleTouchyFingers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DavisH Posted February 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2018 21 hours ago, hansnl said: If Ford wants to make a killing and sell the Ranger Raptor worldwide as a premium pickup, then offer the same thing with the 5 cyl, 3.2 litre engine. A 2 litre engine in a premium vehicle? Wrong choice! Why? It's got more HP and TQ than the 3.2....and no doubt better fuel economy. It's the right choice for asia; they just couldn't sell it with the f150 engine. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, DavisH said: Why? It's got more HP and TQ than the 3.2....and no doubt better fuel economy. It's the right choice for asia; they just couldn't sell it with the f150 engine. Agreed. Hell compared to other US compact trucks it’s still a winner. The F150 is a larger class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canopy Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Ford rolled this this truck out in Thailand for a reason. To compete in the Thailand market. Ahh, didn't know that. So it's the Thai version dumbed down for the local market. Now it makes sense. Looks over substance, all about show value. All you need to do is slap on a cool name and tell them a story how cool the engine is and they'll get in line. It all makes sense now. Got it. I can't blame Ford for doing what makes the most sense for their profitability. In time history will look back at this truck as exactly what it is: the mighty truck with the itty-bitty engine. I know I am in the minority and don't matter, but that just isn't the direction I would want to go when I buy a truck. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, canopy said: Ford rolled this this truck out in Thailand for a reason. To compete in the Thailand market. Ahh, didn't know that. So it's the Thai version dumbed down for the local market. Now it makes sense. Looks over substance, all about show value. All you need to do is slap on a cool name and tell them a story how cool the engine is and they'll get in line. It all makes sense now. Got it. I can't blame Ford for doing what makes the most sense for their profitability. In time history will look back at this truck as exactly what it is: the mighty truck with the itty-bitty engine. I know I am in the minority and don't matter, but that just isn't the direction I would want to go when I buy a truck. Please, by all means, what direction would you go if you were to buy a similar compact truck in Thailand with more power, ground clearance, braking etc.... Hell I’d even like to know what you’d rather buy in the states in the compact truck market of comparable price & class. Do do you think this is supposed to be an F150 or something? It’s a ranger. They are small. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 20 hours ago, canopy said: This sounded promising, but the puny little engine is a real turn off. What a freaking joke. And don't fall for the peak power spec as this is not that important no matter how you try to sugar coat it. I'd like to see the dyno to get a real idea about an engine. Check this quote from: NEW FORD RANGER RAPTOR ‘IS NOT ABOUT THE ENGINE’ Ford Performance’s chief engineer has reacted to criticism of the brand’s choice of powerplant for the new Ranger Raptor. "If you’re talking about power; if you’re focused on power, that’s not a Raptor. That’s not what Raptor’s about. It’s about the chassis and the suspension" So unfortunately, it's a truck for grannies. And I would say the same thing if Toyota pulled a stunt like this. In the Thai market, Toyota just stick on plastic bits - apart from TRD shocks on the sportivo.How do you feel about that? What on earth use would be a 450HP lump in Bangkok. It already will be unusable due to it's size. I imagine lots of dents on the bodywork from car park dings and bikes hitting it due to the width. As for power, it will be plenty....perhaps not for Americans or Aussies....but one has to stop thinking like a Westerner while in Thailand. The road conditions are just not suitable for high road speeds. It's nor designed for that. The ecoboost motor would push it to imported mustang prices. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLIGAD Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Ford rolled this this truck out in Thailand for a reason. To compete in the Thailand market. Ahh, didn't know that. So it's the Thai version dumbed down for the local market. Now it makes sense. Looks over substance, all about show value. All you need to do is slap on a cool name and tell them a story how cool the engine is and they'll get in line. It all makes sense now. Got it. I can't blame Ford for doing what makes the most sense for their profitability. In time history will look back at this truck as exactly what it is: the mighty truck with the itty-bitty engine. I know I am in the minority and don't matter, but that just isn't the direction I would want to go when I buy a truck. Obviously your not a ‘tree-hugger’Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 18 hours ago, canopy said: then only need to put in a puny, underpowered engine not befitting of such a vehicle Camry 2.5 doesn't have the same power output as this truck yet still goes well enough for Thai roads. Ok it's not a sports car but neither is any truck. I see Ferrari and Porsces stuck in Bangkok traffic and driving on the expressway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, canopy said: Ford rolled this this truck out in Thailand for a reason. To compete in the Thailand market. Ahh, didn't know that. So it's the Thai version dumbed down for the local market. Now it makes sense. Looks over substance, all about show value. All you need to do is slap on a cool name and tell them a story how cool the engine is and they'll get in line. It all makes sense now. Got it. I can't blame Ford for doing what makes the most sense for their profitability. In time history will look back at this truck as exactly what it is: the mighty truck with the itty-bitty engine. I know I am in the minority and don't matter, but that just isn't the direction I would want to go when I buy a truck. No, Ford USA have become irrelevant and obviously have very little input on global development of ford pickups. So you expect them to produce a 400HP truck for YOU...in Thailand....and to make a loss, as very few others will buy it. Better to stay in the USA with your cheap fuel and gas guzzling trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: Agreed. Hell compared to other US compact trucks it’s still a winner. The F150 is a larger class. ...the raptor is only about an inch less in width than an F-150. It will be hell to park at lotus lol. Still waiting to hear the mass of the thing. Engine will be lighter but the gearbox looks huge. I would say it has enough punch - it got airborne after a short sprint on its opening. Despite that, it landed very smoothly. I hope they put the same drivetrain into the everest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiguzzi Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 hours ago, canopy said: Your explanation wasn't that clear to be honest. Let's keep this simple. The marketing people at car companies understand the general public only look at peak HP. Most people would be confused to learn a car with less HP could beat a car with more HP. Only the more technical people know that when looking at an engine, it's more important to look at the torque curve. The peak HP number the marketing people dangle at you is often at very high RPMs that aren't useful in typical driving. You should care more how good the car pulls from a standing start at 1000 RPM. Or when you push the throttle when cruising at 2000 RPM. Tiny 4-banger engines like that found in the raptor typically fall flat on their face trying to supply good power at low RPMs. They have to rev really high to get the power on. Ford understands this and installed a 10 speed transmission help keep the revs from falling into the dead zone ranges. But it's only a band aid solution and they are getting eggs and tomatoes thrown at them for this decision. Would a raptor beat a vigo in a drag race? Maybe, but who cares because a vigo is just an everyday grocery getter. The raptor was supposed to be this mean super truck, but the engine isn't tough at all. I repeat what the Ford chief engineer said "If you’re talking about power; if you’re focused on power, that’s not a Raptor. That’s not what Raptor’s about." You don't know what you are talking about. The Ranger is not an F150. Most markets, no, make that all markets outside of the good 'ole USA, have a preference for mid size pick up trucks inc Australia. ie Ranger size over F150 size... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, DavisH said: ...the raptor is only about an inch less in width than an F-150. It will be hell to park at lotus lol. Still waiting to hear the mass of the thing. Engine will be lighter but the gearbox looks huge. I would say it has enough punch - it got airborne after a short sprint on its opening. Despite that, it landed very smoothly. I hope they put the same drivetrain into the everest. It'll be fine on the road, I mean people drive Hiluxes and D-Maxes & all. And it'll be a killer in 4 Low. But of course it will be a bitch to park lol but not that bad. My fortuner would be harder to park, even with the backup cam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 hours ago, canopy said: Tiny 4-banger engines like that found in the raptor typically fall flat on their face trying to supply good power at low RPMs. They have to rev really high to get the power on. Ford understands this and installed a 10 speed transmission help keep the revs from falling into the dead zone ranges. Fact of life? Engines are getting smaller. Volumetric efficiency is now greater than 1 maybe even 2 and up. The old days of stuffing a school bus engine into a sports car are over? V6 is more common than V8. 4 cylinder is now normal. New Ford GT super-car is V6 et al. I think you will find the Raptor has a flat torque curve from about 1500-2500. In the modern era we don't need rpm to get horse power. Even F1 knows that. It is all about how much air one can pack into the cylinders. Modern turbo's pack a lot. Diesels have a very narrow power band. The fuel burns it does not explode, which is why they need lots of gears. Six speed is now normal, eight speed is not uncommon, so then 10 speed for the premium version. Almost 20 years ago I used to own a motorbike with six speed transmission.. I saw one advertised with 7-speed I thought I need one of those. Then one day I was following a tour bus and on the back it said "Mercedes 9-speed" . Then 7 didn't seem so important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 They gave the Raptor the thumbs up in the latest episode of The Grand Tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Remember the old F1 turbo days...1500cc with a big turbo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 44 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: It'll be fine on the road, I mean people drive Hiluxes and D-Maxes & all. And it'll be a killer in 4 Low. But of course it will be a bitch to park lol but not that bad. My fortuner would be harder to park, even with the backup cam. I measured 2.2m across in my driveway. It will definitely squash my swift into one side. I agree it will ride well with rear coils and watt's links in the rear. And stop well as well. I'm surprised Thailand will get that setup, as it will not be classed as a pickup anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: But of course it will be a bitch to park lol Not to mention U-Turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I was surprised to see the 10 speed box ratios, thought they would mainly be working in the get up and go region. Yes it has a very low first gear to get it launched but it has 4 overdrive gears,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 15 hours ago, ThaiFelix said: Will this model also have the option of the faulty transmissions of the past few years? You are incorrect. That feature was standard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwak250 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 11 hours ago, JaseTheBass said: That's because you clearly don't know what you're looking at. Sent from my SM-G925F using Haha really? Go and check your ranger its plastic city on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsweblinks Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 On 09/02/2018 at 11:32 AM, hansnl said: If Ford wants to make a killing and sell the Ranger Raptor worldwide as a premium pickup, then offer the same thing with the 5 cyl, 3.2 litre engine. A 2 litre engine in a premium vehicle? Wrong choice! Thailand is mostly flat and when was the last time you seen any trailers or 30 foot Rv's being towed. Only North America needs big HP to haul all there toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, transam said: I was surprised to see the 10 speed box ratios, thought they would mainly be working in the get up and go region. Yes it has a very low first gear to get it launched but it has 4 overdrive gears,.. I haven’t looked at all but just guessing they won’t all be “gears” or “shifts” per-se in the normal sense. More fluid transitions and converter lockup’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: I haven’t looked at all but just guessing they won’t all be “gears” or “shifts” per-se in the normal sense. More fluid transitions and converter lockup’s. They quote specific ratios..Last four are after 1 to 1..Perhaps a very low rear end ratio... Edited February 10, 2018 by transam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherFarang Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I saw the american version on The Grand Tour with Jeremy Clarkson at the wheel. Have to say I was quite impressed with it. Anyone know what price it will be as I have had my Vigo for 8 years now and fancy a change JAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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