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[rooster59]

Israel launches heavy Syria strikes after F-16 crashes

By Maayan Lubell and Lisa Barrington

 

The remains of an F-16 Israeli war plane are seen near the Israeli village of Harduf, Israel February 10, 2018. REUTERS/Herzie Shapira

 

JERUSALEM/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Israel launched heavy air strikes in Syria on Saturday, saying it hit air defences and Iranian targets, and the Syrian army claimed to have brought down an Israeli F-16 that crashed in northern Israel in a major escalation of tension.

 

The Israeli military said early assessments indicated the jet had been shot down by Syrian fire, but this was still unconfirmed.

 

It marked the most serious confrontation yet in Syria between Israel and Iranian and Iran-backed forces that have established a major foothold in the country while fighting in support of President Bashar al-Assad in the civil war.

 

Israel said the F-16 crashed during a mission to strike Iranian drone installations in Syria. It said it sent its jets into Syria after shooting down an Iranian drone over Israeli territory earlier on Saturday.

 

The military alliance fighting in support of Assad denied any of its drones had entered Israeli air space. In a statement, it said Israel had targeted an air base in the Homs desert that is being used to fly drones in missions against Islamic State.

 

Such "terrorist action" by Israel would be met with a "severe and serious response," it said.

 

The Israeli military spokesman said Israel did not seek escalation in the region, calling its action a "defensive effort triggered by an Iranian act of aggression".

 

Iran's expanding clout during Syria's nearly seven-year-long war, including deployments of Iran-backed forces near the Golan frontier, has raised alarm in Israel, which has said it would act against any threat from its regional arch-enemy Tehran.

 

Iranian and Iran-backed Shi'ite forces, including Lebanon's Hezbollah, have deployed widely in support of Assad. Iran's military chief warned Israel last October against breaching Syrian airspace and territory.

 

Israel's air force has targeted Syrian military and Hezbollah targets in Syria on an almost regular basis, but its attacks on Saturday appeared to be the most intense yet.

 

Referring to the downed Israeli F-16, an official in the pro-Assad alliance said a "message" had been delivered to Israel. "I do not believe matters will develop to a regional war," the official said.

 

U.S. HAWKISH ON IRAN

 

In Washington, President Donald Trump’s administration has backed Israel’s hawkish stance on Iran, and declared containing Tehran's influence an objective of its Syria policy. On a visit to Israel last month, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence called Iran the world’s "leading state sponsor of terror."

 

U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is also expected to visit the region in the coming week to discuss the crisis in Syria and other issues, and is scheduled to visit Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and other countries.

 

Hezbollah and Israel last fought a major conflict in 2006.

 

Tensions have also spiked across the frontier between Israel and Lebanon over Israeli plans for border wall, and Lebanese plans to exploit an offshore energy block which is partly located in disputed waters.

 

The Israeli military said 12 targets, including three aerial defence batteries and four Iranian targets that are part of Iran's military establishment in Syria were attacked.

 

"During the attack, anti-aircraft missiles were fired towards Israel, triggering alarms that were heard in Northern Israel," the military said.

 

Syrian state media reported two separate Israeli attacks.

 

In the first one, a military source said Syrian air defences had opened fire in response to an Israeli act of "aggression" against a military base, hitting "more than one plane".

 

Later, state media said air defences were responding to a new Israeli assault and air defences had thwarted attacks on military positions in southern Syria.

 

Israel said one of its attack helicopters shot down an Iranian drone at around 4.30am (0230 GMT) that had come from Syria into Israel. "In response, the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) targeted Iranian targets in Syria," the military said.

 

"MASSIVE" ANTI-AIRCRAFT FIRE

 

Israeli military spokesman Jonathan Conricus said a "substantial" number of Israeli warplanes on the mission had come under "massive Syrian anti-air fire", and only one Israeli jet was harmed.

 

The F-16 came down in a field near the northern Israeli village of Harduf, television footage showed, and one of the pilots was injured as they ejected, the military said.

 

David Ivry, a former Israeli Air Force chief, told Reuters he believed it was the first time an Israeli F-16 was brought down since Israel began using the jets in the 1980s.

 

"We don't know if the pilots ejected because of the (Syrian)fire," Conricus said. It was also unclear at what stage of the mission they ejected, he said, "but it is of extreme concern to us if they were shot down."

 

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Israel had targeted areas in the countryside southwest of Damascus, near the Syrian-Lebanon border west of Damascus and in the eastern countryside of Homs province for several hours since dawn.

 

It said another set of raids hit southwest of Damascus, and another struck around the Damascus-Beirut highway near the border with Lebanon.

 

In Israel, uniformed military personnel could be seen gathered around the burnt and tangled metal in Harduf by mid-morning, with what appeared to be white foam on the surrounding grass. Others knelt in the grass, inspecting pieces of the jet.

 

Rocket alert sirens sounded in the Israeli-held Golan Heights and in northern Israel. There were no reports of casualties.

 

Flights in to Israel's main airport near Tel Aviv were suspended for about 15 minutes and take-offs were held for about 20 minutes on Saturday morning. "Ben Gurion Airport is now operating as usual," Israeli Airport Authority spokesman Ofer Lefler said.

 

The airport's online live flight schedule showed flights were departing and landing.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-10

[Bluespunk]

12 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Referring to the downed Israeli F-16, an official in the pro-Assad alliance said a "message" had been delivered to Israel. "I do not believe matters will develop to a regional war," the official said.

Too late. 

 

Syria and Yemen are already regional wars by proxy. 

[dexterm]

OP...
"The Israeli military spokesman said Israel did not seek escalation in the region, calling its action a "defensive effort triggered by an Iranian act of aggression". [if the drone pretext is true of course]

Israel's air force has targeted Syrian military and Hezbollah targets in Syria on an almost regular basis, but its attacks on Saturday appeared to be the most intense yet."

 

Netanyahu will not allow anyone to violate Israel's sovereignty, but seems it's OK for Israel to do that on a regular basis to its neighbors over the last 6 years!
"By early December 2017, the Israeli air force had confirmed it had attacked arms convoys of the Syrian government and Lebanon’s Hezbollah nearly 100 times during over six years of the conflict in Syria."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Israeli_airstrikes_against_targets_in_Syria

 

Israel and its earlier terrorist militias has a long history of manufacturing “grounds for war” over the last 70 years. Israel always plays the victim card. If there's an escalation it will come from Israel...always does. This may even morph into the full blown war against Syria's ally Iran that Israel [backed by US] has been itching for over the last 12 months. Let's hope a coalition of the willing doesn't get dragged in once more to fight Israel's wars on its behalf.

 

Syria, Hezbollah and Iran have their hands full fighting ISIS, Al Qaeda et al. Why would they want to open up a new front with Israel, in a war which they will ultimately lose.

 

But when the rockets start flying and civilian casualties mount, just remember who started this ....again!

Forgive my cynicism, but any escalation will also prove a useful distraction from Netanyahu's (and others') current criminal investigations.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by dexterm

[sanemax]

17 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Too late. 

 

Syria and Yemen are already regional wars by proxy. 

Surely you must have understood the context of what was said ?

If you didnt understand the context , what they meant was that they didnt want an escalation of the current situation of which this O.P.is about .

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Surely you must have understood the context of what was said ?

If you didnt understand the context , what they meant was that they didnt want an escalation of the current situation of which this O.P.is about .

I read what they said. 

 

I stand by what I said. 

 

What is happening in Yemen and Syria are now regional wars by proxy. 

 

Such things have a habit of spiralling, as Turkeys’ invasion of Syrian territory and Israel’s current actions show.  

 

Both may be able to justify their actions, but don’t try to tell me they are part of the civil war going on in Syria. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Bluespunk

[sanemax]

19 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I read what they said. 

I stand by what I said. 

What is happening in Yemen and Syria are now regional wars by proxy. 

Such things have a habit of spiralling, as Turkeys’ invasion of Syrian territory and Israel’s current actions show.  

Both may be able to justify their actions, but don’t try to tell me they are part of the civil war going on in Syria. 

Yes, but Syria is telling Israel that they do not want an escalation of the current hostilities between Syria and Israel .

   Syria does not want Israel to get involved in the current war going on .

You should just try to understand what was meant , rather than just looking for things that are wrong .

[Thorgal]

Supposed Iranian UAV has been shot down above Golan Heights.

Even so, also the Israeli F16 was shot down above the Golan Heights.

I don’t see why Israel is calling this an act of terror while both flying objects were shot down on Syrian sovereign territory.

Let’s call it legal Syrian self defense...




Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Supposed Iranian UAV has been shot down above Golan Heights.
Even so, also the Israeli F16 was shot down above the Golan Heights.
I don’t see why Israel is calling this an act of terror while both flying objects were shot down on Syrian sovereign territory.
Let’s call it legal Syrian self defense...

The Iranian drone entered Israeli territory , hence it was shot down .

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, but Syria is telling Israel that they do not want an escalation of the current hostilities between Syria and Israel .

   Syria does not want Israel to get involved in the current war going on .

You should just try to understand what was meant , rather than just looking for things that are wrong .

I know what was meant. 

 

I know what was said. 

 

I also know that the conflicts in Syria and Yemen are regional war by proxy. 

 

I also know the one in Syria is now spiralling as Turkey and Israel become more involved.

 

Iran is, of course, now fully involved. 

 

Tell me, how many more nations do you require to be involved before you recognise the reality of what is happening?

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

 

@Thorgal

 

The Iranian UAV is not "supposed", other than in your post. There's a a released clip featuring the interception, and pictures of the debris.

 

As for the Iranian UAV and the Israeli aircraft being shot down "above the Golan Heights" - again seems to be creative license on your part. The UAV goes for your claim that it was shot "above the Golan Heights". The Iranian UAV was intercepted near the town of Beit Shean. There were no clear reports as to where the Israeli aircraft was actually hit.

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.   

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

I know what was meant. 

I know what was said. 

I also know that the conflicts in Syria and Yemen are regional war by proxy. 

I also know the one in Syria is now spiralling as Turkey and Israel become more involved.

Iran is, of course, now fully involved. 

Tell me, how many more nations do you require to be involved before you recognise the reality of what is happening?

No one is denying the reality of what is happening , everyone is aware that there are wars and proxy wars going on in the region .

  The Pro -Assad alliance issued a statement  saying that they not believe that this incident will develop into a regional war (between Syria and Israel) , although that statement didnt deny that there were other conficts occurring in the region .

   It was in-effect a truce offering to Israel 

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No one is denying the reality of what is happening , everyone is aware that there are wars and proxy wars going on in the region .

  The Pro -Assad alliance issued a statement  saying that they not believe that this incident will develop into a regional war (between Syria and Israel) , although that statement didnt deny that there were other conficts occurring in the region .

   It was in-effect a truce offering to Israel 

Offering a truce does not change the fact that a regional conflict by proxy is already happening. 

 

It may well be an attempt to pull back from spiralling out of all control. 

 

However, it is too late to prevent a regional war, as it is already happening, albeit by proxy,  in both Yemen and Syria. 

 

Turkey’s invasion is a worrying development and a sign it is indeed spiralling. 

 

My point is, and has been all along, is that those involved in the ongoing conflicts cannot prevent what is already ongoing.

 

They can end it, but to deny it is happening is ridiculous. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

 

The Israeli comment about sovereignty is indeed disingenuous.

 

But the same goes for the rest of the usual waffle making up your post. There are no serious reports suggesting that the Iranian UAV incursion was not real. There are clips of the interception, and pictures of the debris. Trying to spin it otherwise is not very convincing nor does  it rely on anything concrete.

 

That you would turn so quickly to them nonsense wide brush claims, is expected. But in reality, Israel did not and does not "manufacture" all instances of aggression, nor does it always play the victim card. All your faux argument relies on the unsubstantiated assertion that the Iranian UAV's incursion was fiction. It also requires ignoring Iran's hostility toward Israel and Iran's regional aspirations. And the same old attempt to muddy the waters with "fighting Israel's wars"....kinda sad you feel the need to toss in all the nonsense at one go.

 

As far as the current incident goes, it's pretty clear "who started it" - Iran sending a UAV into Israeli territory. That you try spinning it along other lines does not change facts. With regard to Netanyahu's investigations - I do wish that posters holding such views would give concrete examples where such actions actually got an elected leader off the hook, or of armed forces and officials all signing up for such an effort.

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Offering a truce does not change the fact that a regional conflict by proxy is already happening. 

It may well be an attempt to pull back from spiralling out of all control. 

However, it is too late to prevent a regional war, as it is already happening in both Yemen and Syria. 

Yes, a truce between Israel and Syria will not change the fact that there are already conflicts going on in that region , no one has suggested that it would  

This is solely an issue between Syria and Israel , nothing to do with Syria and Yemen and Turkey.

In this instance , look at the small picture , instead of looking at the big picture .

*Hostile drones over Israeli territory , drone shot down and launchpad destroyed , truce offered, no escalation, end of story*

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, a truce between Israel and Syria will not change the fact that there are already conflicts going on in that region , no one has suggested that it would  

This is solely an issue between Syria and Israel , nothing to do with Syria and Yemen and Turkey.

In this instance , look at the small picture , instead of looking at the big picture .

*Hostile drones over Israeli territory , drone shot down and launchpad destroyed , truce offered, no escalation, end of story*

The ongoing Israeli actions in Syria are everything to do with the ongoing conflict taking part in Syria.

 

They are also part of a wider regional conflict in Syria and Yemen. 

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The ongoing Israeli actions in Syria are everything to do with the ongoing conflict taking part in Syria.

They are also part of a wider regional conflict in Syria and Yemen. 

This current hostilities between Israel and Syria are separate from Syria's other wars .

Israel hasnt actively  got involved in Syrias civil was , whether the hostilities from the last few days draws them into it remains to be seen , but as everyone , Russians, Syrians and Israels seem to have all taken a stop back, its more than likely that this will just be a one-off skirmish

[Morch]

 

I think that one generally agreed upon statement is that no party involved got much interest in things escalating to an all out, full  blown war. That said, lesser conflagrations can easily become major confrontations due to miscalculation.

 

Iran's UAV incursion into Israel can be construed as an attempt to test the water. Whether with regard to "acceptable" operational parameters, assessing Israel's capabilities or the Russian position. Perhaps all three in one. A craftier explanation could consider the whole things an Iranian set-up - the UAV as bait, and the SAM launches following the Israeli response, an ambush. If the latter, Israel certainly walked straight into it.

 

Yet another relevant angle has to do with Iran's ongoing domestic issues. The current struggle can be roughly outlined as being between "hardliners" and "reformists". While neither is particularly fond of Israel, further regional military engagement is usually associated with the former. Heating things up may serve it as both a justification and a threat, in this context.

 

Worthwhile noting Iranian officials make an effort playing down Iran's role in this, while trying to frame it as being about Syrian sovereignty. Good as a diplomatic alibi and helps Russia take a more favorable stand (or at least, counters a negative one).

 

As for Russia - most likely the Russians were aware of the Iranian UAV sortie, and the even more so with regard to Syrian SAM activity.  While Russia and Israel do have a military coordination mechanism in place, it does not go as far as Russia supplying advance warning to Israel (unless, perhaps, if and when it suits Russian interests). On the other hand, Russia does not actively assist Syria (or in this case, Iran) when it comes to countering Israeli attacks.

 

A bad timing for a major escalation as far as Russia's Syria peace efforts are concerned, so probably not in their best interests and probably some sort of deescalation politics are being engaged in. A limited, smaller scale conflagration is right up Russia's alley, as it would serve to highlight its current prominent position in the region. Trouble is assuring things don't get out of hand, though.

 

Interesting to watch how Russia will actually deal with being in the unenviable diplomatic hot seat, while the US remains on the sidelines, poking sticks in wheels and passing criticism. Quite a reversal of roles there.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

This current hostilities between Israel and Syria are separate from Syria's other wars .

Israel hasnt actively  got involved in Syrias civil was , whether the hostilities from the last few days draws them into it remains to be seen , but as everyone , Russians, Syrians and Israels seem to have all taken a stop back, its more than likely that this will just be a one-off skirmish

The conflict between Syria and Israel is part of a region wide conflict.

 

As the OP says the Israelis are concerned about Iranian intentions and actions. 

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The conflict between Syria and Israel is part of a region wide conflict.

 

As the OP says the Israelis are concerned about Iranian intentions and actions. 

The current hostilities between Israel and Syria are due to Irans drone being sent into Israeli airspace and thus Israel used military force against the drone .

    That is a different issue to Syrias civil war , which Israel isnt involved in

 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, sanemax said:

The current hostilities between Israel and Syria are due to Irans drone being sent into Israeli airspace and thus Israel used military force against the drone .

    That is a different issue to Syrias civil war , which Israel isnt involved in

 

There is a regional war by proxy taking place in Syria and Yemen. 

 

The current israeli actions are part of this regional war by proxy. 

[sanemax]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

There is a regional war by proxy taking place in Syria and Yemen. 

 

The current israeli actions are part of this regional war by proxy. 

You just keep saying the same thing over and over and over again and I keep replying with the same thing over and over again . 

   Sounds like theres another drone flying over head .

Quick, call the Israelis

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You just keep saying the same thing over and over and over again and I keep replying with the same thing over and over again . 

   Sounds like theres another drone flying over head .

Quick, call the Israelis

I keep saying the same things because you keep trying to avoid the fact that a regional war is ongoing. 

 

The OP itself references Israel’s concerns with Iran and its actions in Syria. 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

The Iranian drone entered Israeli territory , hence it was shot down .

All major news agencies are saying this did not happen.

[metisdead]

A troll post containing an intentional aberrant misspelling of the Israeli PM's name has been removed. 

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

All major news agencies are saying this did not happen.

Which major news agencies are saying what did not happen ?

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

All major news agencies are saying this did not happen.

 

Do share.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Do share.

Agreed.

I haven't seen any credible source saying the drone didn't enter Israeli air space short of quotes from Iranians saying it didn't.

If such sources exist, let's see them explicitly. 

[sanemax]

29 minutes ago, stevenl said:

All major news agencies are saying this did not happen.

Are "All the major news agencies" saying this didnt happen ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWKmYDkjS8 

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Agreed.

I haven't seen any credible source saying the drone didn't enter Israeli air space short of quotes from Iranians saying it didn't.

If such sources exist, let's see them explicitly. 

Seems my source was not reliable, sorry, can't find any confirmation.

 

Also did not find any confirmation of drone shot down over Israel btw, only source for that seems to be the Israeli military.