Consumer Unit problems

[carlyai]

They are good units. Normally come with spring washer + washer. Allen keys should be torqued up as well.

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Thanks Forkinhades. My CU box didn't have flat washers, and tiny (not springy anymore washers). Maybe a Thai electrician secret to throw away the flat washers?

Torquing the Allen keys seems like the idea. In your experience, do Global House etc. have 5 mm connection torque wrenches? Spose the torque wrench can fit any Allen key size.

My last experience with a torque wrench was when Toyota were putting back the rocker cover on my old car and I suggested they use the torque wrench and tighten as per the workshop manual. So one stripped thread later we threw away the torque wrench.

And as it's Saturday...nothing to do with torque wrenches..wash my car every week at the same place and check my tires as well. 30 psi thank you, what it says in the manual, not 34 psi.
I wasn't paying attention when the mechanic was checking the tyres; was taking a long time, so I looked at the 3 tyres he'd done and they looked very tight. I said 30 psi he said yes, but I didn't believe it, so turned the machine off and reset it and dialer in 30 psi. The tyres had about 42 psi. So he redid 2 tyres on the side he was standing to 30 psi then but the hose back. I said to do the other two tyres as well, both over 40 psi.
Mostly good, then something happens and they do a crappy job. Seems they're all like that.



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[Forkinhades]

Back in the UK, I have a 1/2 inch torque wrench, with all kinds of adapters to accept almost anything. Not sure what's available here.

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[carlyai]

An enjoyable road trip (except for all the cane trucks), to Roiet and 200 odd km later I think I have all the stuff I need. Global House etc don't stock what I was looking for but eventually found this place named Roiet Machine.
Took a few km of walking and asking but worth it. Usually when you get close to a place, most people seem to know where the particular shop you're looking for is.
Lovely people and only too helpful.
Didn't get a torque wrench, as the one they had was huge. There must be a way to adjust the Allen screws without overtightening them. Now I have proper spring and flat washers, tightening should be easier.
I had to go up to 6 mm so will see how the metal taps out. The Thai name for a 'tap' is 'tap' but with a Thai accent.
If tapping the metal out stuffs up, a new CU is about B 3000 odd.
Spose I shouldn't use any Sonic on the tapping hole?
Raining now, so have to wait.


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[carlyai]

When you go to M6 I think you must drill first. As close as possible to 5mm, not bigger.
 
Sonic may help, but I should try to use something Thickers, like engine oil. 
 
Arjen.

Thanks Arjen. I was wondering about using oil or sonic on a part that will have an electrical connection. I was going to tap the thread without removing the unit, but just putting something under the hole to catch the metal threads.
I asked the guy at the Roiet Machine, and he said with the good Japanese metal taps, I don't need to drill.
If I don't drill, do you think it will be too hard to tap the hole?

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[Forkinhades]

You should be able to tap straight into existing hole. Copper is quite soft.

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[carlyai]

Unfortunately things went from bad to worse as I attempted to repair it today.
I just couldn't get the second Allen screw out. I had a young guy turning the screw while I levered it up with 2 flat bladed screwdrivers, but couldn't get it to come out. Tried many things, and in the process broke off the two plastic barriers between the phases.
The young guy turning the Allen screw with the key kept slipping out of the slot with force and I was afraid he'd hit the top 100 A breaker and turn it on, so gave it up.
I rang up my electrician mate, the one who installed it, and he's buying another load centre and driving from Mukdahan today to install it.
The first hole I tried to tap, but really needed to drill it first as the tap wouldn't really start. The composite metal that I was tapping into is fairly hard. On the bench with a larger wrench would have been OK I think.
I'll fix up the old removed CU on the bench with the new 5mm Allen screws.

Is it OK to glue back the black plastic walls/barriers between the phases that I broke off with Super Glue?

Thanks for all your help.

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[xylophone]

2 hours ago, carlyai said:

Unfortunately things went from bad to worse as I attempted to repair it today.
I just couldn't get the second Allen screw out. I had a young guy turning the screw while I levered it up with 2 flat bladed screwdrivers, but couldn't get it to come out. Tried many things, and in the process broke off the two plastic barriers between the phases.
The young guy turning the Allen screw with the key kept slipping out of the slot with force and I was afraid he'd hit the top 100 A breaker and turn it on, so gave it up.
I rang up my electrician mate, the one who installed it, and he's buying another load centre and driving from Mukdahan today to install it.
The first hole I tried to tap, but really needed to drill it first as the tap wouldn't really start. The composite metal that I was tapping into is fairly hard. On the bench with a larger wrench would have been OK I think.
I'll fix up the old removed CU on the bench with the new 5mm Allen screws.

Is it OK to glue back the black plastic walls/barriers between the phases that I broke off with Super Glue?

Thanks for all your help.

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Don't forget what I said in an earlier post regarding "burnt" bakelite having conductive qualities, thereby giving you more problems if you try to use it again...........may be use for spares only and don't worry about doing it up?

[carlyai]

Don't forget what I said in an earlier post regarding "burnt" bakelite having conductive qualities, thereby giving you more problems if you try to use it again...........may be use for spares only and don't worry about doing it up?

Great advice, thanks.

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[carlyai]

Nat drove down from Mukdahan and installed the new CU for me. He's a nice man.
We did try to just replace the bakelite but not possible, so replaced the whole unit.
It looks like those Allen screws are tightened in the factory, as there's no need to touch them at all. Just wonder if I got a dud CU box as all the screws were lose, but the new unit all screws were OK. So not my sparkie's fault after all.
All finished until the 3 phase digital meter goes in.

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[Crossy]

Glad you got it sorted.

 

Ideally, and with a decent set of tools, one could have drilled out the screws that wouldn't undo, opened the holes to 5mm and tapped M6.

 

Of course you would have no power whilst all this was going on.

 

Probably you did the best in the situation.

 

Is that unit really outside? IP rated?

 

Oh, and the chances of actual "Bakelite" being in a modern unit is pretty close to zero, glass-loaded nylon maybe.

 

[carlyai]

Glad you got it sorted.

 

Ideally, and with a decent set of tools, one could have drilled out the screws that wouldn't undo, opened the holes to 5mm and tapped M6.

 

Of course you would have no power whilst all this was going on.

 

Probably you did the best in the situation.

 

Is that unit really outside? IP rated?

 

Oh, and the chances of actual "Bakelite" being in a modern unit is pretty close to zero, glass-loaded nylon maybe.

 

Hi Crossy, the unit is outside but inside another metal box. Some pics. attached.

 

I couldn't see an IP rating on the name tag. That probably means it's not IP rated?

Nat (my nice guy electrician. B 1500 to buy the load centre, drive 160 km, install it and have a glass of water). While installing the unit he was complaining about the tightness of the screws when removing the main breaker. I said ..remember you installed it, and he said something very typical with Thai tradies 'I didn't expect to come back and have to fix it'.

 

We were also talking about the village disaster when PEA reconnected a phase incorrectly the blew up people's TVs, lights, and caused my stabalizer to go mad. He said that when PEA disconnect 3 phase from the HV side they have to disconnect phases in order phase A, B, then C. When they reconnect, they connect C, B then A.

Sounds to me like another Thai trades school learning. What's the answer[mention=14979]Crossy[/mention] ?

 

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[Crossy]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Sounds to me like another Thai trades school learning. What's the answer Crossy?

Almost certainly an error on the LV (220V) side. We had it on a system on Seoul Line-5 (loooong ago) blew up 60% of the station equipment.

 

Swapping the neutral and a phase gives you one LV phase with 220V (reversed polarity but no major issues) and two phases giving 380V, a recipe for the magic smoke to come out of any appliance unfortunate enough to be plugged in at the time.

 

Which is why we have a front-end under/over trip that opens both line and neutral, completely disconnecting us from the big bad electricity grid.

[carlyai]

Almost certainly an error on the LV (220V) side. We had it on a system on Seoul Line-5 (loooong ago) blew up 60% of the station equipment.
 
Swapping the neutral and a phase gives you one LV phase with 220V (reversed polarity but no major issues) and two phases giving 380V, a recipe for the magic smoke to come out of any appliance unfortunate enough to be plugged in at the time.
 
Which is why we have a front-end under/over trip that opens both line and neutral, completely disconnecting us from the big bad electricity grid.

I see, thanks.

So what's the ABC disconnect, then CBA connect about?

But the live is insulation covered, and the neutral is uninsulated and loops along the top of the power poles. How could you wrongly connect that?

As the CU is not made of bakelite any more, does that mean I can then fix up and reuse my old CU, or could the material still be conductive (where it has sparked), as another contributor has said?

How did you mount your voltage protector on the neutral? Did you install an extra DIN rail?

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[carlyai]

I am not sure what is the correct way of connecting and disconnecting phases. I have seen it them doing  here many times. They are with three persons. All with a bamboo pole what the hook in the "fuse" they count and at the same time they all three open their fuse. Reconnecting the same but the other way round. So on this way, all three phases are dis- and connected more or less simultaneously.
 
Arjen.

Hi Arjen.
That sound more correct to me (but I don't know).

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[xylophone]

50 minutes ago, carlyai said:

As the CU is not made of bakelite any more, does that mean I can then fix up and reuse my old CU, or could the material still be conductive (where it has sparked), as another contributor has said?

Good point............we used to use a Megger to test resistance and this might work here?

 

Any ideas if this type of instrument is still around Crossy?

[Crossy]

Just now, xylophone said:

Any ideas if this type of instrument is still around Crossy?

Meggers, more correctly called "insulation testers" are definitely still around.

 

Every sparks worth his salt will have one although the days of the hand cranked beastie are long gone;-

 

 

Even I am not old enough to remember these beautiful wood cased instruments, mine were metal and battleship grey in colour.

 

[Wirejerker]

17 hours ago, carlyai said:

It looks like those Allen screws are tightened in the factory, as there's no need to touch them at all

 Always check connections out of the box as they do shake loose in transit and/or a lazy factory worker getting a sore hand tensioning bolts and finds he can get away with slacking off. Yet I find a lot of loose ones and in good quality stuff. Checking their connections only takes a minute or two and saves downtime and needless expense down the track.

 

No need to swing on it when checking just use as much force as you use to take a screw top off a bottle of beer.. If u have a loose one it will show up.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Wirejerker
After thought

[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Even I am not old enough to remember these beautiful wood cased instruments, mine were metal and battleship grey in colour.

The one I used was similar/smaller than this and hand cranked!!! 

 

Showing my age now!

[sometimewoodworker]

On 18/02/2018 at 3:48 PM, carlyai said:

Thanks Forkinhades. My CU box didn't have flat washers, and tiny (not springy anymore washers). Maybe a Thai electrician secret to throw away the flat washers?

Torquing the Allen keys seems like the idea. In your experience, do Global House etc. have 5 mm connection torque wrenches? Spose the torque wrench can fit any Allen key size.

My last experience with a torque wrench was when Toyota were putting back the rocker cover on my old car and I suggested they use the torque wrench and tighten as per the workshop manual. So one stripped thread later we threw away the torque wrench.

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You may have been sold a bottom tap, from the left 3 and 4, you probably need a starter, No.1, tap. Also personally I would never bother with a torque wrench on small to medium electrical screws just the 1, 2, or 3 fingers on the Allen key. You will rapidly develop a feel if you "gorilla" tighten a few socket cap screws so you strip the threads  DAMHIKT 

Edited February 25, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[Forkinhades]

^^^ By using torqued settings it will prevent overtightening aswell.

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[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, Forkinhades said:

^^^ By using torqued settings it will prevent overtightening aswell.

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Sure, though you will probably have to spend at least 3,000 Baht for anything decent, and you will have to find it as well