DIY path and driveway for house in Pak Thong Chai.

[TSF]

In a couple months time we want to put a cement path around a house in Pak Thong Chai + a driveway for my car at the front of the house. So a few questions about this as we don't know much and want to get some info before starting. My wife will get a couple of local laborers to do the work, she can also borrow a cement mixer from a relation, and we plan to order the cement, sand & stones (if needed) ourselves from some store like Thaiwatsadu. Alternatively, we could order a load from CPAC. 

 

The pathway around the house will be 1 meter wide X 33 meters total length, so 33 square meters.

The driveway in front will be 3 meters wide and about 10 meters length, so 30 square meters.

Total area = 63 square meters. 

 

We think that 6cm will be sufficient depth. Does anyone agree or disagree with that? We understand the path and driveway should have a slight incline so water runs off away from the house. Is sand & cement mix OK or should stones be added to the mix? What proportions of cement - sand - stones would be best.

 

I'd really appreciate any tips/info anyone can give us. As well as a ballpark figure for the cost. Thanks in advance.

[Crossy]

You need concrete which is aggregate (stones), sand, cement and reinforcing steel.

 

I suggest you start here https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/concrete_driveways/basics.html many other instructive sites, try a Google.

 

6cm isn't even enough for a footpath let alone a traffic carrying driveway.

 

For your materials, go to a local builder's merchant, much cheaper then the big name stores for the quantities you are looking at.

 

If you buy from CPAC or the like you MUST, that's MUST be prepared when the load arrives, formwork, rebar, labour must all be in place, concrete waits for no man and you pay for the load no matter what.

 

Your 3m x 10m x 150mm (sensible) drive will need 4.5m3 of concrete.

 

[weegee]

be advised....ONLY use CPAC.

Why....The cement is mixed properly before you get it. Local labourers rarely mix the same strengths in succession. They may stop as it's too hot or need to go to a funeral for a few days...Once you start a pour you should continue until completed.

As you say you have little experience, so get the workers to box out AND lay the reo mesh for you. Then get them there when the truck arrives with cement to screed the stuff...

Your driveway should be at least 125mm thick,

Your walkways should be around 100mm thick and all should have Reinforcing mesh put in for sure. Do it so you pour late afternoon or early morning, BEFORE it gets hot. Late afternoon is my preference, so the cool of the night helps the cement cure better.

Hope this helps... 

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, weegee said:

Local labourers rarely mix the same strengths in succession.

It took me a loooong time to get the guys actually measuring the mix (ok by the shovel load, but better than nothing) and rationing the water, the locals just lurve the water. You need a lot less cement and water (and a lot more aggregate) than you think.

 

My only regret is that we only bought a mini-mix, a "real" concrete mixer would have cost twice as much, but would have paid for itself by now.

 

[weegee]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

It took me a loooong time to get the guys actually measuring the mix (ok by the shovel load, but better than nothing) and rationing the water, the locals just lurve the water. You need a lot less cement and water (and a lot more aggregate) than you think.

 

My only regret is that we only bought a mini-mix, a "real" concrete mixer would have cost twice as much, but would have paid for itself by now.

 

With all the hassles mixing by hand (and you still have to buy the materials before the wages are added), it's not worth it, in the long run. I will also add to the Topic Poster that, you will just need Medium mix for the driveway and walkway. So ask for that....costs about 1800 baht per mtr here, so that will give you a good idea. 

[weegee]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It took me a loooong time to get the guys actually measuring the mix (ok by the shovel load, but better than nothing) and rationing the water, the locals just lurve the water. You need a lot less cement and water (and a lot more aggregate) than you think.

 

My only regret is that we only bought a mini-mix, a "real" concrete mixer would have cost twice as much, but would have paid for itself by now.

 

A good mixer around here is about 13k....BUT...they make real good compost makers when you have finished cementing.

[carlyai]

A good mixer around here is about 13k....BUT...they make real good compost makers when you have finished cementing.
[emoji106]

Bugger...just sold mine to Grollies.

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[carlyai]

You need concrete which is aggregate (stones), sand, cement and reinforcing steel.
 
I suggest you start here https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/concrete_driveways/basics.html many other instructive sites, try a Google.
 
6cm isn't even enough for a footpath let alone a traffic carrying driveway.
 
For your materials, go to a local builder's merchant, much cheaper then the big name stores for the quantities you are looking at.
 
If you buy from CPAC or the like you MUST, that's MUST be prepared when the load arrives, formwork, rebar, labour must all be in place, concrete waits for no man and you pay for the load no matter what.
 
Your 3m x 10m x 150mm (sensible) drive will need 4.5m3 of concrete.
 

I've used a lot of CPAC lately for the pool and surrounds. I now tend to think it's the way to go to get a consistent good mix.
We did the house with a big mixer. If I remember it took 4 big bags of cement, which went in, bag and all, and the bags were pulled out as the mixer went round. As the day and the lao kaw consumption wore on, the mixes definitely changed, but seemed to get stronger.
If you get CPAC get the busiest, largest operator, one with certified CPAC as they have quality control on the mixes and give you a written receipt with slump etc. The first CPAC mob I got had CPAC written on the truck but weren't. Their first load was 2 hours late and a big rock and water bottle poured out first. The day with them laying 14 m X 4 m x40 cm double reinforced, vibrated concrete was a complete nightmare.

Maybe lay some crusher dust first. You can then buy the little plastic saddles that sit on the crusher dust to support the rebar. I'd also get some mixers added, to make the concrete more airy and easy to work. Also a retarder, so it goes off slowely, and gives you time for the man on the whirly gig to do a good job. To finish off you can get these big metal edgers that give a beautiful curve to the slab driveway sides. It's important to leave a rough finish on the top, so people don't slip over when it gets wet. Here they tend to brush it with a broom which works OK, but make sure it's not smooth.

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[weegee]

19 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I've used a lot of CPAC lately for the pool and surrounds. I now tend to think it's the way to go to get a consistent good mix.
We did the house with a big mixer. If I remember it took 4 big bags of cement, which went in, bag and all, and the bags were pulled out as the mixer went round. As the day and the lao kaw consumption wore on, the mixes definitely changed, but seemed to get stronger.
If you get CPAC get the busiest, largest operator, one with certified CPAC as they have quality control on the mixes and give you a written receipt with slump etc. The first CPAC mob I got had CPAC written on the truck but weren't. Their first load was 2 hours late and a big rock and water bottle poured out first. The day with them laying 14 m X 4 m x40 cm double reinforced, vibrated concrete was a complete nightmare.

Maybe lay some crusher dust first. You can then buy the little plastic saddles that sit on the crusher dust to support the rebar. I'd also get some mixers added, to make the concrete more airy and easy to work. Also a retarder, so it goes off slowely, and gives you time for the man on the whirly gig to do a good job. To finish off you can get these big metal edgers that give a beautiful curve to the slab driveway sides. It's important to leave a rough finish on the top, so people don't slip over when it gets wet. Here they tend to brush it with a broom which works OK, but make sure it's not smooth.

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I think our posts will have convinced him to buy CPAC....lol

You just reminded me of all the nightmares with mixing by hand.

Edited February 20, 2018 by weegee
add

[Crossy]

I agree with the above sentiments, for the driveway CPAC is best. But as also noted, like painting, preparation is essential and you'll need tools such as the "whirlygig" (power float).

 

 

OK, you could use a couple of chaps with bull floats.

 

 

Both need skilled labour to get right.

 

For the pathway, no real reason not to go with locally mixed if you have a machine available.

 

The biggest slab we did with the mini-mix was the 7 x 5 x 7.5cm base for the chicken palace (about 2.5m³), took the 3 boys all day. CPAC likely would have been quicker but there's no vehicular access to closer than 50m (and that's rough / our lawn) so a lot of barrow loads needed.

 

Oh how they scoffed when I bought the mini-mix, "we can do by hand". They love it now although they still mix mortar by hand (so they don't need to clean the machine).

 

And yes, it's great for mixing up compost, Wifey loves it too

 

 

[TSF]

A big thanks to everybody for all this valuable info. And the link Crossy gave to the Concrete Network is especially helpful and I've made pdf copies of all the info. 

 

CPAC will definitely be the way to go. However for the pathway on the far side of the house, and at the rear of the house, I doubt if the CPAC truck can get close enough (without destroying my wife's fruit trees and garden) so I think we'll need to do those bits ourselves using barrows.

 

When ordering a mix from CPAC is there a minimum quantity?

[r136dg]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

need skilled labour to get right.

Concrete is hard work & takes years (like any other trade) to get good at. Another suggestion would be to watch a lot of you-tube videos on the subject. Observe techniques on forming (shuttering), finishing & light brooming. Also note the hand tools used for finishing you'll need. Maybe do a trial run on a small sidewalk out back or the in-laws house to see what you're getting into.

 

22 minutes ago, TSF said:

When ordering a mix from CPAC is there a minimum quantity?

I believe you can order in increments of 1/2 cubic meters but usually anything under 3 has a delivery charge (B200 where I'm at). If there's a redi-mix plant near ya they may waive the fee, there's alternatives to CPAC. I've found the 270 mix to be best to finish & plenty strong enough @ B1,850/cubic meter.

Here's a handy tool

http://www.ccsgroup.co/concrete-calculator/

Edited February 21, 2018 by r136dg
Adding calculator

[weegee]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

A big thanks to everybody for all this valuable info. And the link Crossy gave to the Concrete Network is especially helpful and I've made pdf copies of all the info. 

 

CPAC will definitely be the way to go. However for the pathway on the far side of the house, and at the rear of the house, I doubt if the CPAC truck can get close enough (without destroying my wife's fruit trees and garden) so I think we'll need to do those bits ourselves using barrows.

 

When ordering a mix from CPAC is there a minimum quantity?

yes...from memory it's 3 mtrs.

Glad to see you will use ready mixed where you can. You wont be sorry....

[TSF]

Thanks again for the replies. Here's a plan I just made up. As you can see the CPAC truck will either flatten my wife's fruit trees or wreck the prepared driveway if it attempts to get access to the pathway at the side of the house (next to the neighbor's wall) and the rear of the house. So I reckon we will have to do the pathway the old fashioned way, mixing the concrete with a mixer and using barrows. However for the driveway, which will be deeper, we'll pour in one go from CPAC.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by TSF

[TSF]

I should also add that this pathway and driveway will be utilitarian rather than a work of art. At the moment my wife's house is standing on bare ground, so we step out of the house onto dirt (or mud when it rains) so a concrete path approx one meter wide around the house will be a most welcomed addition. Likewise a driveway at front, so we will step right out of the car onto the front patio without having to stand on any of the bare ground.

 

So we're not too concerned about this concrete work looking "beautiful", and as has been pointed out, a rough unpolished surface with be better anti-slip.

[KMartinHandyman]

Thanks again for the replies. Here's a plan I just made up. As you can see the CPAC truck will either flatten my wife's fruit trees or wreck the prepared driveway if it attempts to get access to the pathway at the side of the house (next to the neighbor's wall) and the rear of the house. So I reckon we will have to do the pathway the old fashioned way, mixing the concrete with a mixer and using barrows. However for the driveway, which will be deeper, we'll pour in one go from CPAC.
 
 

In my country trucks have a few shoots to extend the trough (ask them to bring them) and then you have laborers with a few wheelbarrows to move and dump the concrete around back.
I’d borrow, rent or buy 3 wheelbarrows to pour everything from the truck before I’d invest in mixing the rear area on site. Three laborers can move it around back rather quickly and the finishers can be working.
One laborer will always be getting a load to keep the driver happy and then you’ll be onto the truck dump area in no time or waiting for the next truck depending on how many loads you need.

[carlyai]

I should also add that this pathway and driveway will be utilitarian rather than a work of art. At the moment my wife's house is standing on bare ground, so we step out of the house onto dirt (or mud when it rains) so a concrete path approx one meter wide around the house will be a most welcomed addition. Likewise a driveway at front, so we will step right out of the car onto the front patio without having to stand on any of the bare ground.
 
So we're not too concerned about this concrete work looking "beautiful", and as has been pointed out, a rough unpolished surface with be better anti-slip.

Wrong: Concrete has to be beautiful, even if it's a rough non slip finish.

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[TSF]

5 hours ago, KMartinHandyman said:

In my country trucks have a few shoots to extend the trough (ask them to bring them) and then you have laborers with a few wheelbarrows to move and dump the concrete around back.
I’d borrow, rent or buy 3 wheelbarrows to pour everything from the truck before I’d invest in mixing the rear area on site. Three laborers can move it around back rather quickly and the finishers can be working.
One laborer will always be getting a load to keep the driver happy and then you’ll be onto the truck dump area in no time or waiting for the next truck depending on how many loads you need.

Well if they can do it that way all the better. I know when the house was built last year the CPAC driver delivered a load for the floor and he was in and out in a flash, he even pulled down an overhead electric wire in his haste to get out of there, and he buggered up some surrounding concrete driveways trying to get his truck in as close as possible. 

 

I think when the time comes to do this work I'll have my missus discuss the situation carefully with the CPAC firm beforehand. But if they can use shoots long enough to get the concrete down the side and to the rear, then we'll go for it.

[sirineou]

20 hours ago, TSF said:

Thanks again for the replies. Here's a plan I just made up. As you can see the CPAC truck will either flatten my wife's fruit trees or wreck the prepared driveway if it attempts to get access to the pathway at the side of the house (next to the neighbor's wall) and the rear of the house. So I reckon we will have to do the pathway the old fashioned way, mixing the concrete with a mixer and using barrows. However for the driveway, which will be deeper, we'll pour in one go from CPAC.

 

 

Why don't you do the walkway first , and a day or two later do the driveway, Thats what we are doing right now

They have long shutes that can reach far.

after it was done we formed the driveway and we will be pouting it today or tomorrow,

We even got a guy to guard it while we wait LOL

 

 

[carlyai]

Why don't you do the walkway first , and a day or two later do the driveway, Thats what we are doing right now
They have long shutes that can reach far.

after it was done we formed the driveway and we will be pouting it today or tomorrow,

We even got a guy to guard it while we wait LOL
 
 

Looks nice.
Always say the good before the not so good. [emoji848]
I think you need some control joints, or it may crack.

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[carlyai]

Well if they can do it that way all the better. I know when the house was built last year the CPAC driver delivered a load for the floor and he was in and out in a flash, he even pulled down an overhead electric wire in his haste to get out of there, and he buggered up some surrounding concrete driveways trying to get his truck in as close as possible. 
 
I think when the time comes to do this work I'll have my missus discuss the situation carefully with the CPAC firm beforehand. But if they can use shoots long enough to get the concrete down the side and to the rear, then we'll go for it.

I say again...this is the reason you need the best CPAC company. Get some Red bull energy drinks and some Sponsor drinks for the drivers. Keeps them happy.
Don't let them wash out the cute in your yard, tell them to do it outside away from your house. They will if you're happy and firm.
Small tips can sometimes make things run smoothly.
You'll get an idea how things are going to go by the arrival of the first truck: nearly on time or not, and if they give you the concrete certification sheets for your signature.

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[TSF]

On 2/22/2018 at 10:02 AM, carlyai said:

I say again...this is the reason you need the best CPAC company. Get some Red bull energy drinks and some Sponsor drinks for the drivers. Keeps them happy.
Don't let them wash out the cute in your yard, tell them to do it outside away from your house. They will if you're happy and firm.
Small tips can sometimes make things run smoothly.
You'll get an idea how things are going to go by the arrival of the first truck: nearly on time or not, and if they give you the concrete certification sheets for your signature.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Would anyone care to recommend a CPAC co in the Pak Thong Chai/Korat region? Alternatively how would we go about finding the best?

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

Would anyone care to recommend a CPAC co in the Pak Thong Chai/Korat region? Alternatively how would we go about finding the best?

There will only be 1 or 2 near enough for you don't forget that you have to factor in the driving time from the batching plant so you maximum distance is about 30km before your delivery window gets way too short.

 

if you are buying CPac you will not be able to use a shoot to the rear of the house, you will need to use wheelbarrows, at least 4, because it will not be soup.

 

you will also need a minimum of 10 people on the barrows and bucket.

 

this what you don't want Soup or this More soup

Edited February 25, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[carlyai]

Would anyone care to recommend a CPAC co in the Pak Thong Chai/Korat region? Alternatively how would we go about finding the best?

I started out with the very worst. Recommended by another farang.

If you have a look at their operation site, and they seem to have proper mixing vats (for different concrete strengths), and a quality control check, also a few reasonable looking trucks. CPAC signs should be professional signs.

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[TSF]

17 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There will only be 1 or 2 near enough for you don't forget that you have to factor in the driving time from the batching plant so you maximum distance is about 30km before your delivery window gets way too short.

 

if you are buying CPac you will not be able to use a shoot to the rear of the house, you will need to use wheelbarrows, at least 4, because it will not be soup.

 

you will also need a minimum of 10 people on the barrows and bucket.

 

this what you don't want Soup or this More soup

Yes, I really think we'll need to do this in 2 stages, stage 1 borrow the cement mixer from wife's reli, buy our own cement/sand/stones and lay the pathway around the house. Stage 2, get CPAC to pour the driveway.

 

We're currently on holiday in Bali and a resort we stayed in at Kuta had a great pathway, it was bare unfinished concrete but the top surface had be brushed with some very stiff bristles and had ridges all over, plus there were leaf impressions all over. This is what we want to do with the pathway. 

[zlodnick]

I suggest you

[zlodnick]

I suggest you get a profesional concrete company, and look at some of thier work. Concrete is something you will have to live with the rest of your life and believe me, you will care what it looks like.

 

They tend to make a real mess also. I've seen concrete splashed 6 feet high on walls. You should mention this concern to the concrete boss. (It might or might not make a difference.)

 

I think spending a bit more to have it done right is well worth it. If done wrong, it's very expensive to fix.

[r136dg]

16 hours ago, zlodnick said:

Concrete is something you will have to live with the rest of your life and believe me, you will care what it looks like.

I agree. When they started forming (shuttering) around our new house (no consistent edges or heights, forms slapped next to each other like footings, ect.) I put a stop to it. Been slowly doing it myself in small pours ever since. 

Thing is most people don't know what it should or could look like & don't really consider it as a part of the landscaping. Just something hard to drive/walk on, which is fine because it definitely will serve that purpose.

Good concrete contractors might be tough to find here; however, I've seen some pretty good flat work around pools & some nice stamped concrete work. From what I've found the good stamped work is pretty expensive.

I just wish there were batch plants around that had a good pee rock mix for exposed aggregate.

[zlodnick]

r136dg,

 

 I agree 100%. I was a concrete finisher for 25 years and some of the work I see here is unbelievable, it's so bad. But people here think, (Hey, it's hard, what more do you want?)

 

When I first built our house, I was a young man. I poured and finished our driveway by myself, no help. Now, like you, I do walkways, one section at a time. I have a plastic mortar pan, big enough for one bag of cement, 14 shovels of sand, and 28 of stone. That will do a section 1 meter wide and 2 meters long. I'm so damn feeble now, my wife has to help me pick up a bag of cement! 

 

When I moved here, I brought a magnesium float and a bronze edger and jointer. Those tools make all the difference in the world. They do sell cheap steel hand tools here, but they just don't do as good a job.

 

DIY concrete work, is really not something one should do unless they have some experience.

[johng]

13 minutes ago, zlodnick said:

my wife has to help me pick up a bag of cement! 

Yes but remember those Thai cement bags are 50KG  not the 25KGs like "back ohme"

once I stupidly took  3 of those 50kg bags one by one up to a 3rd floor apartment using the stairs ( no lift)

almost killed me !