Month to Month Lease Addendum

[lkv]

I hope i am posting this in the right subsection.

 

I have signed a 12 month rental agreement last year that is about to expire, and I would like to continue the lease agreement month by month. I have spoken to the owner, he's ok about it, but instead of signing a new lease agreement that runs month by month, I was thinking to use a Month to Month Lease Addendum. The idea is both the landlord and the tenant can terminate anytime with a 30 day notice, and obviously, I do get the original deposit back whenever that happens.

 

Does something within these lines extend a lease agreeement under Thai Laws and offers me the protection I am after? 

 

Thanks.

 

 

[cheeryble]

1. Why bother with this unless to confirm no funny business about getting your deposit back in future.....in that case make a specific note of it to ram it home. (Was it Churchill who said "Tell them what youre going to say, say it, then tell them what you just said."?)

 

2. Why mention the possibility of the rent rising? Remove it. Any sane landlord will not risk losing a good tenant and having to find a new one for the sake of forcing the last $ out of him.

[lkv]

1 hour ago, cheeryble said:

1. Why bother with this unless to confirm no funny business about getting your deposit back in future.....in that case make a specific note of it to ram it home. (Was it Churchill who said "Tell them what youre going to say, say it, then tell them what you just said."?)

 

2. Why mention the possibility of the rent rising? Remove it. Any sane landlord will not risk losing a good tenant and having to find a new one for the sake of forcing the last $ out of him.

That portion of rent increase will be removed.

 

This is to legally extend the lease without signing a new one.

 

This is a document signed by both parties, not a notification sent by one party to the other. 

 

Example: In three months time, i need a legal proof of adress (say bank account opening with bank that is happy to open up an account without WP). Or I need a proof of address at an overseas Thai consulate. Etc. Something like this is proof that the lease is ongoing. Otherwise, they would argue that my lease is expired, therefore no longer valid, and they would be right.

 

Another angle of it is, since my lease would have expired, unless I have a new lease , I effectively occupy the premises illegally, so I can be thrown out by the owner without a 30 day notification.

 

I know over here in Thailand many people sign an initial 12 month contract and then when it expires, go month by month and they don't bother. So have I in the past on previous tenancy agreements. However, it should be understood the tenant is no longer legally covered, since most lease agreements are signed for a determined period of time.

 

Reason i am bothered this time around is because the initial contract is complex and the rent value (therefore the 2 month deposit) is on the high side.

Edited February 21, 2018 by lkv

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

Reason i am bothered this time around is because the initial contract is complex and the rent value (therefore the 2 month deposit) is on the high side.

What does the original lease document say about terms after the lease is over. If its a complex contract it probably has a paragraph covering ongoing terms.

The document you are suggesting, original lease conditions apply, X days notice and no rent increase, sounds like another lease.

[lkv]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

What does the original lease document say about terms after the lease is over. If its a complex contract it probably has a paragraph covering ongoing terms.

The document you are suggesting, original lease conditions apply, X days notice and no rent increase, sounds like another lease.

The contract was through agent. Quite intricate. Now we are going direct. Agent already tried her luck to make me renew for another 12 months, told her i am not interested and I will discuss month to month with the owner.

 

The contract states that 30 day before the expiry of the lease the tenant has to give a written notice of renewal or vacate. Initially, if the tenant failed to do so, he would lose the deposit, but I had that modified into fixed monetary penalties.

 

Nevertheless, because the contract was so tricky that it was forcing me into a new 12 month lease, I gave the landlord a notice to vacate (I actually followed the contract terms and sent it to him via registered mail).I have explained to him that I am not happy to renew for a full 12 months therefore I will serve him with a vacate order to avoid those penalties.

 

In regards to renewal, it initially said anually, I had the agent take off that word last year before I signed, so it's kind of in the air now.

 

I have the option of signing a new lease or extending the current one, even though I gave him the vacate order, I specified it becomes null and void upon resigning.

 

It's easier for me to go for a month to month addendum which basically extends the lease and can modify provisions in the original lease, signed by both parties. That way the lease is extended on a month to month basis upon its expiry.

 

I will add that the owner is ok with month by month, and seems like a nice guy, but I want to have myself covered just in case.

Edited February 22, 2018 by lkv

[cheeryble]

9 hours ago, lkv said:

That portion of rent increase will be removed.

 

This is to legally extend the lease without signing a new one.

 

This is a document signed by both parties, not a notification sent by one party to the other. 

 

Example: In three months time, i need a legal proof of adress (say bank account opening with bank that is happy to open up an account without WP). Or I need a proof of address at an overseas Thai consulate. Etc. Something like this is proof that the lease is ongoing. Otherwise, they would argue that my lease is expired, therefore no longer valid, and they would be right.

 

Another angle of it is, since my lease would have expired, unless I have a new lease , I effectively occupy the premises illegally, so I can be thrown out by the owner without a 30 day notification.

 

I know over here in Thailand many people sign an initial 12 month contract and then when it expires, go month by month and they don't bother. So have I in the past on previous tenancy agreements. However, it should be understood the tenant is no longer legally covered, since most lease agreements are signed for a determined period of time.

 

Reason i am bothered this time around is because the initial contract is complex and the rent value (therefore the 2 month deposit) is on the high side.

fair enough

[smutcakes]

Why dont you just sign the same contract you already have which you are both familiar with, but insert a clause which says the contract can be terminated with 30 day written notice, with no penalty.

 

Be careful that the termination option is not for landlord and tenant, or he might decide to give you 30 days notice when you dont want to move out.

[lkv]

7 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Why dont you just sign the same contract you already have which you are both familiar with, but insert a clause which says the contract can be terminated with 30 day written notice, with no penalty.

 

Be careful that the termination option is not for landlord and tenant, or he might decide to give you 30 days notice when you dont want to move out.

Because it gets complicated with the deposit. I said i would do a draft and send it to him but I'm not totally clear on how to carry the deposit that has already been paid forward into the new lease from a legal point of view. 

 

I will not upfront a new deposit while waiting for the previous one to be returned in 30 days.

 

So we'd probably end up writing receipts to each other with no money changing hands. I gave you the deposit back, you gave it back to me, sort of thing.

 

Which is why extending the lease with this addendum (which is being used in the US quite frequently it appears - i just found it researching on Google), would solve the problem, because it extends the original lease with the same terms, or i can add provisions to actually also modify other parts of the original lease should I wish to do so, which I don't, and it goes month to month. It's like an amendment. So legally, I should still get the deposit back. 

 

Month to month means i can cancel anytime i want with a 30 day notice, but he has that right as well. It's only fair, and it's standard in countries like the US where this sort of thing is being used. If i wanted to have the guarantee he would not decide to move me out when I don't want, then I would have renewed the original lease for another 12 months, but then if i decided to move out before the 12 months, I'd obviously lose my deposit.

 

Can't have flexibility and him not having flexibility :)

 

On a previous lease that I did not extend after 12 months, so i stayed with no contract, the owner came to me at some point and said he wants to move someone else in. He gave me some time (actually about 2 months because I told him...give me more time....), and eventually i moved out of that place. That's a risk a tenant has to take when he chooses to go month by month, with or without a contract.

 

Without a contract though, or an addendum that has a 30 day provision, he can technically come knocking at your door on any particular day and throw you out that very same day, since you are illegally occupying his premises :)

Edited February 22, 2018 by lkv