Gun lobby pushes back on Trump's gun plans after Florida shooting

[webfact]

Gun lobby pushes back on Trump's gun plans after Florida shooting

By Pete Schroeder and Roberta Rampton

 

A cap and shirt are displayed at the booth for the National Rifle Association (NRA). REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The National Rifle Association pushed back on Sunday against modest proposals by President Donald Trump and other Republicans to change U.S. gun laws in the wake of a school shooting in Florida that killed 17 students and staff.

 

The powerful gun lobby group does not support Trump's proposals to raise the age limit for buying certain types of guns and to ban bump stocks that enable semi-automatic rifles to shoot hundreds of rounds a minute, a spokeswoman said on ABC's "This Week."

 

"The NRA doesn't back any ban," Dana Loesch said.

 

Trump was endorsed by the NRA in his 2016 presidential election campaign and often trumpets his support for the constitutional right to own guns.

 

But the Feb. 14 massacre at a Florida high school has mobilized high school students to push for restrictions on gun sales, spurred several companies to sever ties with the NRA and energized gun-control activist groups.

 

As November congressional elections draw closer, Trump and Republicans are under pressure to show they are responding to concerns about school safety without angering supporters who oppose gun control.

 

Since the Florida shooting, Trump has declared support for raising the age limit to 21 from 18 for buying rifles. The 19-year-old shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida had bought his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle legally.

 

"That's what the NRA came out and said, that's correct," Loesch said when pressed on whether the group opposes raising the minimum age.

 

Trump also has asked the Justice Department to develop a regulation that would effectively ban the sale of bump stocks, an accessory used last year by a shooter who killed 58 people at a Las Vegas outdoor concert, the deadliest attack by a single gunman in U.S. history.

 

Trump has also said he supports legislation to tighten background checks for gun buyers, although he has not provided specific details.

 

Republican Senator Pat Toomey, a sponsor of a bill that would require background checks for weapons sold at gun shows and on the internet, said Trump's support could help advance proposals that floundered in years passed.

 

"Our president can play a huge and in fact probably decisive role in this. So I intend to give this another shot," Toomey said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

 

Legislation to close background checks loopholes failed to clear the 60-vote threshold in the U.S. Senate after a shooter killed 26 children and teachers in 2012 at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut.

 

DAYLIGHT WITH NRA?

 

Loesch tried to play down the emerging differences between the NRA and the White House.

 

"I know that people are trying to find daylight between President Trump and five million law-abiding gun owners," she said. "He's really looking for solutions ... so far nothing's been proposed yet."

 

Tweaks to gun laws face an uphill battle among conservative Republicans in Congress. On Sunday, Representative Thomas Massie from Kentucky said he opposed changes to background check laws and other restrictions on gun ownership.

 

"I wish that background checks stopped criminals or stopped school shootings, but they don’t," Massie told NBC.

 

Trump has strongly endorsed the idea - backed by the NRA in the wake of the Newtown shooting - of arming trained teachers with guns.

 

Loesch said the group believes individual schools should decide whether to arm teachers. On Saturday, Trump said on Twitter the proposal would be left "up to states."

 

Loesch said more emphasis should be placed on how the FBI and local police missed warning signs and tips about the shooter, calling it an "abdication of duty."

 

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel has come under fire after a deputy at the school at the time of the shooting stayed outside. Several news reports said that three other deputies were slow to enter the building.

 

Israel said on CNN on Sunday that he had no plans to resign, and that the department would investigate all aspects of the shooting.

 

(Reporting by Roberta Rampton, Pete Schroeder and Yasmeen Abutaleb; Editing by Kieran Murray, Andrea Ricci and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-26

[Samui Bodoh]

10 minutes ago, webfact said:

The National Rifle Association pushed back on Sunday against modest proposals by President Donald Trump and other Republicans to change U.S. gun laws in the wake of a school shooting in Florida that killed 17 students and staff.

17 people killed for no good reason.

 

If 17 people were killed in my country for no good reason, I would be looking at every single thing I could do to ensure that it never occurs again.

 

The NRA is working to ensure that nothing changes, and thus it could occur again.

 

Can anyone refute the idea that the NRA should now be known as "The Assassin's Guild"?

 

Jesus wept.

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[Damrongsak]

The NRA doesn't necessarily represent us gun owners, though they do their bit part. 

 

Jesus wept, but Buddha just shook his head.  He knew it would be lifetimes until they got it, if at all. 

 

I try not to get upset after reading about governments that killed their people.  Like China, 80 million.  Russia, 60 million.  Germany, 20 million.  Democide.  Look it up.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, Damrongsak said:

The NRA doesn't necessarily represent us gun owners, though they do their bit part. 

 

Jesus wept, but Buddha just shook his head.  He knew it would be lifetimes until they got it, if at all. 

 

I try not to get upset after reading about governments that killed their people.  Like China, 80 million.  Russia, 60 million.  Germany, 20 million.  Democide.  Look it up.

 

Terrible deflection.

 

Who runs America?  NRA?  no? then implement the changes.

[klauskunkel]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump has strongly endorsed the idea - backed by the NRA in the wake of the Newtown shooting - of arming trained teachers with guns.

So, the strategy to eliminate guns in schools is to put guns in schools.

[Becker]

2 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

The NRA doesn't necessarily represent us gun owners, though they do their bit part. 

 

Jesus wept, but Buddha just shook his head.  He knew it would be lifetimes until they got it, if at all. 

 

I try not to get upset after reading about governments that killed their people.  Like China, 80 million.  Russia, 60 million.  Germany, 20 million.  Democide.  Look it up.

Are you actually saying that Americans need guns because the government might turn on them?? Tell me, which planet are you living on? And on that planet in which scenario would you and your pitiful AR-15 win against an A1 Abrams or a missile equipped drone?

Edited February 26, 2018 by Becker

[EVENKEEL]

8 minutes ago, Becker said:

Are you actually saying that Americans need guns because the government might turn on them?? Tell me, which planet are you living on? And on that planet in which scenario would you and your pitiful AR-15 win against an A1 Abrams or a missile equipped drone?

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov. And I'm sure at that time many folks said, ahh it'll be OK, don't rock the boat.

[Becker]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov. And I'm sure at that time many folks said, ahh it'll be OK, don't rock the boat.

And how is that relevant?

[lannarebirth]

15 minutes ago, Becker said:

Are you actually saying that Americans need guns because the government might turn on them?? Tell me, which planet are you living on? And on that planet in which scenario would you and your pitiful AR-15 win against an A1 Abrams or a missile equipped drone?

No question your government would take you out without a second thought. But would the kid they sent to do the job do it?  I doubt it.

[halloween]

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov. And I'm sure at that time many folks said, ahh it'll be OK, don't rock the boat.

So if there was a ban on assault rifles, should the gun states secede and start a new civil war?

[mike324]

Over 95% of the guns made in the USA are sold domestically, raising the minimum age would mean less guns sold. Hence the NRA and gun manufactures do not support raising the minimum age.

[DM07]

22 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov. And I'm sure at that time many folks said, ahh it'll be OK, don't rock the boat.

Little over 200 years ago, people were afraid of the sun!

What is your point?

[boomerangutang]

It's a badly written article.  Who is Dana Loesch?  The article doesn't say.  Is she a passer-by on the sidewalk?

 

NRA is a danger to the US.  Gun addiction is a disease, and like body riven by life-threatening disease, it's extremely difficult to remedy.  The US is stuck with its gun addicts.  To try and fix parts of the grave problem (pun intended) would entail shoot-outs with gun addicts.  Very messy.

 

Listening to Trump's suggestions is like listening to a 5 year old overseeing complicated surgery on a dying patient.  Even his fellow right wingers are laughing at Trump.  He's idiocy personified.

[Becker]

13 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

No question your government would take you out without a second thought. But would the kid they sent to do the job do it?  I doubt it.

Indeed. The "argument" that citizens need guns to protect themselves against their government is ridiculous for three reasons:

1. The US government might turn on the population and start killing them in droves. Need I go on?

2. If the government ordered the armed forces to do this they would obey and start killing their mothers/fathers/siblings and friends.

3. Even if the government managed to convince the armed forces to do this a bunch of pot bellied civilians with rifles would be able to effectively fight back.

I mean, come on!

[boomerangutang]

55 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

So, the strategy to eliminate guns in schools is to put guns in schools.

Yea, that's just one of Trump's (and the NRA's) asinine suggestions. There are a slew of reasons why arming teachers is a stupid and dangerous idea.  I would list them here, but don't want to hog too much space on this blog.

 

19 minutes ago, halloween said:

So if there was a ban on assault rifles, should the gun states secede and start a new civil war?

Probably not another civil (civilian) war, but similar.  Redneck gun huggers would band together in unregulated militias and shoot to kill - if they suspected any folks were trying to disarm them.  Everyone agrees to that, even the '....cold dead fingers' crowd.   As to how severely the problem would escalate, we don't know, but the US is headed in that direction.  No one should doubt that gun-addicts look forward to massive killing sprees which could ensue.  They fantasize about that daily, just as they fantasize about blowing the head off a brown skin kid who happens to try to pry open a window to enter their trailer.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

23 minutes ago, Becker said:

Indeed. The "argument" that citizens need guns to protect themselves against their government is ridiculous for three reasons:

1. The US government might turn on the population and start killing them in droves. Need I go on?

2. If the government ordered the armed forces to do this they would obey and start killing their mothers/fathers/siblings and friends.

3. Even if the government managed to convince the armed forces to do this a bunch of pot bellied civilians with rifles would be able to effectively fight back.

I mean, come on!

 

The 2nd Amendment needs to be dealt with in a Constitutionally lawful way. There's no use using Exutive Orders or local statutes to affect a change. They'll all be challanged and will likely be overturned. That said I'm for changing the 2nd Amendment. In my version handguns would be banned (with exemptions available based on justifiable need) as would long guns that could fire automatically or semi automatically. I would retain the idea of a "militia" for anyone meeting established criteria. They could meet periodically to train and whatever weapons they possess would be kept at the local armory.

 

In exchange for all that I would demand a de-militarization of police forces and a change in policy as to when it is acceptable for a police officer to fire their weapon.

 

It is no coincidence that higher gun ownership levels in America is in lock step with increased law enforcement militarization.

Edited February 26, 2018 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Yea, that's just one of Trump's (and the NRA's) asinine suggestions. There are a slew of reasons why arming teachers is a stupid and dangerous idea.  I would list them here, but don't want to hog too much space on this blog.

 

Probably not another civil (civilian) war, but similar.  Redneck gun huggers would band together in unregulated militias and shoot to kill - if they suspected any folks were trying to disarm them.  Everyone agrees to that, even the '....cold dead fingers' crowd.   As to how severely the problem would escalate, we don't know, but the US is headed in that direction.  No one should doubt that gun-addicts look forward to massive killing sprees which could ensue.  They fantasize about that daily, just as they fantasize about blowing the head off a brown skin kid who happens to try to pry open a window to enter their trailer.

 

 

 

You're slipping. You forgot fat and pharma addicted.

[boomerangutang]

It's no coincidence that the NRA shoveled $33 million to Trump during the 2016 campaign. 

 

Similarly, it's no coincidence that the NRA and Russia had millions of dollars going back and forth between them.  Both benefit from the weakening of the US, but in different ways.  The NRA benefits because, each time there's a mass shooting, sales of guns and ammo skyrocket.  It's win-win for them. 

 

 ....and we know how Russia benefits:  A weakened US floats Russia's boat in world standings.  Putin smiles.  Trump smiles.   The NRA smiles most of the time, except when they have to try to calm things down after a mass murder.  But they know, in a matter of hours, Trump will do/say/tweet something stupid, and Americans' focus will get diverted.

 

You've heard about 'donation fatigue'?  Now we have 'mass-murder fatigue.'   If no one killed is a relative or friend, then the average American (particularly Deplorables) will yawn and go on to other things.   Oh sorry, except for right-wingers mouthing forth with 'our thoughts and prayers.'

 

Sorry right wingers, your thoughts and prayers aren't even a band-aid to the gallons of blood that are being spilled each day from gun wounds.

[boomerangutang]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

You're slipping. You forgot fat and pharma addicted.

ok, you're trying to be witty, ....but what thinks ye about the substance of my missive?

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

ok, you're trying to be witty, ....but what thinks ye about the substance of my missive?

I agree that arming teachers is a stupid idea. As for the rest of it I think it is just hate filled drivel.

[spidermike007]

It has become increasingly clear, that the NRA is a terrorist organization, plain and simple. By continuing with their policies, they essentially support the massacre of civilians, and will stop at nothing to continue their insane support for automatic rifles, the ownership of rifles by 18 year olds, and are resisting calls for deep background checks.

 

The NRA are perhaps the most corrosive and dangerous organization in America today. They need to be stopped. They need to be taken out. Period. End of story. The time has come. They have outlived their usefulness. They are a boil on the face of America. 

 

The best way for Americans, who profess patriotism to their nation, to express that so called loyalty, is to not vote for any politician who accepts even one dollar from this heinous organization. They are a mafia. I am fine with someone being able to purchase a hunting rifle, or a pistol for self defense. With a deep background check. Gun shows need to be stopped tomorrow. 97% of the guns in the US, that are owned by civilians, are owned by 3% of the population. That is the very definition of a broken nation.

 

And did anyone notice that Trump was visited by an NRA lobbyist the day after the shooting? Those fools should not be allowed within 10 miles of the very white house. Trump has sold his soul to the highest bidder. That much is clear to anyone with any vision or understanding. Drain the swamp? How about re-populate it with his own crocodiles. The master of BS continues his crusade of lies.

 

Yes, the insistence, by very powerful lobbyists that automatic rifles, and many types of assault rifles be made available to the American public, is definitely keeping the nation safe. In addition so is the watered down version of background checks, that this terrorist organization known as the NRA supports. 

 

And if one believes that, you might also believe the deflector in chief is making America great again. 

 

None of us have a problem with a law abiding, and sane individual being able to buy a handgun, or a rifle for hunting. But, 3% of the gun owners own 97% of the guns. The NRA makes this possible and is supporting terror in the process, by diluting the process and the laws. That is only part of the reason why they are such a despised and vilified organization. I realize they have 5 million members. But, they don't have another 325 million Americans as members. Their time has come. They are going to have to face greater and greater scrutiny, and hopefully a complete shutdown, at some point. They do not benefit the country. They are a very, very destructive force in American politics. And Trump is their whore.

 

 

[CharlesSwann]

They can't take all the guns out of society without first taking the insecurity out of society. And as America has built its society out of an incendiary mix of  Anglo-Saxons, European Catholics, native Americans, Jews, blacks, and Hispanics all rubbing up against each other in a bewildering state of freedom, the people will never feel secure.

 

If deprived of their guns, people *will* start 3D-printing them, and then even the geeks will have one.

There's no solution to this. America has made its bed and has to lie in it.

Carry on with the hand-wringing.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

28 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It has become increasingly clear, that the NRA is a terrorist organization, plain and simple. By continuing with their policies, they essentially support the massacre of civilians, and will stop at nothing to continue their insane support for automatic rifles, the ownership of rifles by 18 year olds, and are resisting calls for deep background checks.

 

The NRA are perhaps the most corrosive and dangerous organization in America today. They need to be stopped. They need to be taken out. Period. End of story. The time has come. They have outlived their usefulness. They are a boil on the face of America. 

 

The best way for Americans, who profess patriotism to their nation, to express that so called loyalty, is to not vote for any politician who accepts even one dollar from this heinous organization. They are a mafia. I am fine with someone being able to purchase a hunting rifle, or a pistol for self defense. With a deep background check. Gun shows need to be stopped tomorrow. 97% of the guns in the US, that are owned by civilians, are owned by 3% of the population. That is the very definition of a broken nation.

 

And did anyone notice that Trump was visited by an NRA lobbyist the day after the shooting? Those fools should not be allowed within 10 miles of the very white house. Trump has sold his soul to the highest bidder. That much is clear to anyone with any vision or understanding. Drain the swamp? How about re-populate it with his own crocodiles. The master of BS continues his crusade of lies.

 

Yes, the insistence, by very powerful lobbyists that automatic rifles, and many types of assault rifles be made available to the American public, is definitely keeping the nation safe. In addition so is the watered down version of background checks, that this terrorist organization known as the NRA supports. 

 

And if one believes that, you might also believe the deflector in chief is making America great again. 

 

None of us have a problem with a law abiding, and sane individual being able to buy a handgun, or a rifle for hunting. But, 3% of the gun owners own 97% of the guns. The NRA makes this possible and is supporting terror in the process, by diluting the process and the laws. That is only part of the reason why they are such a despised and vilified organization. I realize they have 5 million members. But, they don't have another 325 million Americans as members. Their time has come. They are going to have to face greater and greater scrutiny, and hopefully a complete shutdown, at some point. They do not benefit the country. They are a very, very destructive force in American politics. And Trump is their whore.

 

 

 

You may not agree that Trump is draining the swamp, and he surely isn't; but he sure does shine a spotlight on all the swamp dwellers, intentionally or not.  And that's not such a bad thing. It's up to the people to do the rest.

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You may not agree that Trump is draining the swamp, and he surely isn't; but he sure does shine a spotlight on all the swamp dwellers, intentionally or not.  And that's not such a bad thing. It's up to the people to do the rest.

 

Are you referring to Jared, Ivanka, Mnuchin, Zinke, Price, Sessions, Haley, and many of the others?

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Are you referring to Jared, Ivanka, Mnuchin, Zinke, Price, Sessions, Haley, and many of the others?

No, I'm referring to the swamp, which I define as the permanent assortment of institutions that feed in Washington. The NRA being one such example. Hundreds of others too.

[spidermike007]

15 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

No, I'm referring to the swamp, which I define as the permanent assortment of institutions that feed in Washington. The NRA being one such example. Hundreds of others too.

Though my feelings might be deemed as extreme by some, I think all lobbyists for the NRA should be shot on sight. Or, at the very least, kept at least one mile away from the very white house, the congress and the senate. And all lobbyists should be banned from operating. It is one of the most corrosive forces in American politics, and one of the reasons why the system is so terribly broken. All lobbying is, is legal corruption. Make it illegal. Get rid of the crocodiles! Drain the swamp! Deny Trumps friends. 

[F4UCorsair]

So, the strategy to eliminate guns in schools is to put guns in schools.

May make sense. A government arms its police and military against threats, and of course I know the difference.

 

With good training, I think it's an idea worth exploring, and just may provide a sufficient deterrent to dissuade some lunatics. Who knows? 

 

People who carry out school shootings, or any shottings against unarmed others, are cowards, and if they know there will be resistance they just may not go ahead.

 

It may not be practical, but unless it's canvassed, we'll never know.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Though my feelings might be deemed as extreme by some, I think all lobbyists for the NRA should be shot on sight. Or, at the very least, kept at least one mile away from the very white house, the congress and the senate. And all lobbyists should be banned from operating. It is one of the most corrosive forces in American politics, and one of the reasons why the system is so terribly broken. All lobbying is, is legal corruption. Make it illegal. Get rid of the crocodiles! Drain the swamp! Deny Trumps friends. 

None of those institutions arrived with Trump. But he is singularly suited to highlighting all these interfaces that have been happening for decades now. Sure, spew your vitriol at Trump, he deserves it, but all these institutions which both parties have been co-opted by are going to get some on them too. Even rabid partisans have to see that their own preferred party is engaged in exactly the same type of activity, all of the time.

[Becker]

11 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Makes sense. A government arms its police and military against threats. With good training, I think it's an idea worth exploring, and just may provide a sufficient deterrent to dissuade some lunatics. Who knows?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I know. Lunatics aren't deterred by anything. If you're unsure what the term lunatic implies then I suggest you educate yourself.

[natway09]

They will just never get it so do not waste your breath.

The killing will continue. Sad people they have become