Serious Accident

[baz69er]

I am asking on behalf of a friend of mine (Westerner) he was in a serious accident involving his truck & two young people on a motorcycle, unfortunately both were killed in the accident, obviously his insurance company will compensate the families etc  & there has also been mentioned of him also contributing to the families too, obviously no amount of money will ever replace there loss, but he doesn't know how much to give to the families without offending them...

 

Has anyone been in a similar situation or know of anyone as I have tried searching on the internet & cant find anything regarding this matter.....

 

This is a very serious topic & would appreciate any sound advice...

 

Thanks in advance

 

Baz

[Apiwan2]

100K to help with the funerals maybe

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[canthai55]

Who was at fault ? Or more to the point - who do the police say was at fault ?

This will make a difference in my experience.

 

[Fat Prophet]

It depends on (1) if the accident was his fault and (2) how much the insurance will pay to the families of the victims. I assume that, if his insurance will pay them, fault for the accident must have been assigned to him. If it was his fault and his insurance will pay them a substantial amount (in the range of B200,000 each), he should offer an equal amount. Ultimately, it will be a negotiation with the parents/family and the police will be involved. But, perhaps not surprisingly, the compensation from insurance (and from the person that caused the accident) in the case of death is typically less (much less) than if there is significant injury/permanent disability. 

 

He should discuss this with his insurance company before making an offer to the parents/families. If he was not at fault or fault is not clearly his, he should be careful to avoid any statement/action that would suggest/imply that the fault for the accident is his or that he believes that the accident was his fault. 

[NanLaew]

17 minutes ago, Apiwan2 said:

100K to help with the funerals maybe

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A good start and I would advise that it be made clear that any payment being made is absolutely final to stop relatives crawling out of the woodwork demanding more. It is non negotiable. 

 

Also fully agree (from experience) that the insurance carrier and the police dealing with the incident need to be fully on board with this.

[mstevens]

I am ignorant on this issue so can someone please clarify if it is a requirement to compensate other parties / victims of a crash over and above what your insurance company pays them?  Again, call me ignorant.....but I thought that was what insurance was for in the first place - most insurance policies provide cover for material loss i.e. vehicle as well as loss of life.  Can anyone provide a clear explanation as to what the law is and how it is generally interpreted?

[BobbyL]

Sad story, but if he wasn't at fault then he should be paying nothing. 

[transam]

28 minutes ago, mstevens said:

I am ignorant on this issue so can someone please clarify if it is a requirement to compensate other parties / victims of a crash over and above what your insurance company pays them?  Again, call me ignorant.....but I thought that was what insurance was for in the first place - most insurance policies provide cover for material loss i.e. vehicle as well as loss of life.  Can anyone provide a clear explanation as to what the law is and how it is generally interpreted?

Did your chum get charged by the BiB..

If one has first class insurance you leave it to the insurance rep... If you haven't then folk will be knocking at the door..

[stubuzz]

Let the insurance company deal with everything. Do not give the family any money.

[baz69er]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Did your chum get charged by the BiB..

If one has first class insurance you leave it to the insurance rep... If you haven't then folk will be knocking at the door..

No he wasn't charged & was free to go once the insurance company had came out, wasn't even asked for a statement etc.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, baz69er said:

No he wasn't charged & was free to go once the insurance company had came out, wasn't even asked for a statement etc.

Lucky fella, if the insurance is dealing with the finances then your chum should ignore other stuff..

[baz69er]

48 minutes ago, Fat Prophet said:

It depends on (1) if the accident was his fault and (2) how much the insurance will pay to the families of the victims. I assume that, if his insurance will pay them, fault for the accident must have been assigned to him. If it was his fault and his insurance will pay them a substantial amount (in the range of B200,000 each), he should offer an equal amount. Ultimately, it will be a negotiation with the parents/family and the police will be involved. But, perhaps not surprisingly, the compensation from insurance (and from the person that caused the accident) in the case of death is typically less (much less) than if there is significant injury/permanent disability. 

 

He should discuss this with his insurance company before making an offer to the parents/families. If he was not at fault or fault is not clearly his, he should be careful to avoid any statement/action that would suggest/imply that the fault for the accident is his or that he believes that the accident was his fault. 

Thank you for your reply & I agree with what you have said, he was told that there is CCTV where the accident happened but has yet to be contacted regarding this.

[baz69er]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Lucky fella, if the insurance is dealing with the finances then your chum should ignore other stuff..

He just wants to help the families anyway, as he is pretty cut up over the whole situation.

[canthai55]

IF ... he was not at fault, or charged with being at fault, compensation over and above what the insurance company pays is at his discretion.

But tell your friend to wait and see - not unusual to be charged after the fact, some time days or weeks after the accident.

[bubba45]

No good deed goes unpunished.  They'd get nothing from Thais; they'd be lucky to get insurance money.  Start handing out money at his own peril.

[Jitar]

31 minutes ago, baz69er said:

He just wants to help the families anyway, as he is pretty cut up over the whole situation.

Your friend's concern is understandable, any involvement in a fatality is stressful, regardless of fault.   The Police can be unpredictable in these situations, some good, some not so good.  If your friend does not speak Thai, a lawyer would be a good idea, especially if Police take further action. 

 

Payments over and above insurance payout is common in LOS, especially if the injured party is less affluent than the other party.  If your friend wants to make a payment to help for funeral expenses etc, I suggest he not deal directly with the family.  it would be better to have a Thai speaking intermediary deal with this, to avoid confusion and limit ongoing drama.   

[firestar]

People that say  "nothing" have obviously never been or known anybody in this kind of situation and do not understand if it's his fault he could be in a whole lot of trouble that will only go away by him paying the families... and before we have "in farangland" or the usual Farang victim card EVERYBODY pays to compensate Thai or Farang rich or poor......

 

To anwer your question : It entirely depends on responsability and social status of the families. I had a friend who was in an accident where responsability was shared he paid 50k and the family even apologized. Another person I know, a young russian man,  was drunk and killed someone in Phuket he paid 4 million and was blacklisted..

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

IF ... he was not at fault, or charged with being at fault, compensation over and above what the insurance company pays is at his discretion.

But tell your friend to wait and see - not unusual to be charged after the fact, some time days or weeks after the accident.

Sound advice. From experience, the police wasted a lot of time trying to find Mrs NL at-fault due to pressure from the injured party's family after their kids t-boned her car. Until the insurance payout cash is received in-hand by the clueless muppets locals, all the verbal assurances from the insurance company mean nothing. Then when they get the payout, it's not enough. Eventually, after about 2 weeks of dicking about and harassment, the cops finally closed the case with Mr NL not at fault... and neither were the illegal, uninsured juveniles on the motorbike who ended up in hospital. Outside of the insurance payout, a token 10k baht/victim was paid in cash to the family with all parties including Mrs NL, the family, the cops and the insurance rep attending the police station where the details of the cash payout was added to the 'accident file' in the big book with the comment that once this was accepted and signed, nobody could try and badger her for more money.

 

Sometimes it isn't all cut and dried but this being Thailand, YEMV.

[firestar]

Before sending a lawyer who might want to get the biggest payout possible and keep a good chunk of it for himself, I would have a Thai speaking person I trust just have a conversation with them to gauge the level of resentment, social status etc

 

PS: Looking at some of the comments... compensation for an injured party in a non-fatal accident and one with fatalities are two very different things.

 

 

 

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[Destiny1990]

fishy first post.

[hgma]

help is starting a sucking dairy (read atm) farm.

Put aside your Western feelings and deal with it the Thai way.

RIP to the victims!!

[peterrabbit]

Its best to do everything through a third party (ie lawyer etc) or your friend will be seen as a cash cow willing to be 'milked' by all involved.

Just because He has been released doesn't mean there isn't going to be a court case against Him, especially if its seen that large sums of money can be got out of Him.

[nontabury]

What would happen if the accident involved only Thais?

I remember a few years ago, a young rich Thai, driving a very expensive car, hitting a young Loa girl, cutting her in half.

He finished up paying her family about 200,000 Baht, While he payed out about 700,000 Baht for repairs to his car.

Would I be correct in thinking,that when a farang is involved, the payment increases,no matter whose ar fault.

[NanLaew]

51 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

Its best to do everything through a third party (ie lawyer etc) or your friend will be seen as a cash cow willing to be 'milked' by all involved.

Just because He has been released doesn't mean there isn't going to be a court case against Him, especially if its seen that large sums of money can be got out of Him.

This is why he should ensure that the police and insurers agree and witness a written 'case closed' moment before getting on with life.

[NanLaew]

31 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Would I be correct in thinking,that when a farang is involved, the payment increases,no matter whose ar fault.

You would be correct in propagating a myth.

 

Your insurance agent is your friend. If the insurance agent is a dick, you go above him to the insurance company and ask for someone to work in your mutual best interests. A lot of insurance agents are just that, agents and not employees and can be on-call to several, different insurance companies.

[The Teacher]

6 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Who was at fault ? Or more to the point - who do the police say was at fault ?

This will make a difference in my experience.

 

Exactly 

[kensisaket]

He needs to get a Thai that has his best interest in mind to speak for him (possibly his insurance rep).  If any money passes hands do it at the police station.  They have all the facts; and, should make sure everything is finalized IN WRITING when he leaves the police station.  We went through a situation where the motorcycle driver ran into the side of our stopped pickup truck. She spent 10 days in the hospital and it cost us 50,000 baht.  When we ended up at the police station there had to be 20 people from their side, it was like a damn circus.  I have to say that the Sisaket police took control of the situation and everything was settled right there at the station.  

[alien365]

What if you don't have any money to give? Considering the number of uninsured cars and bikes on the road with people who don't even have a license, I'm sure plenty of incidents fall in to this category.

[Ducatiski]

Hi Baz69er, I went through a similar situation recently and can give you my understanding of how things work in this case. I’d like to reply privately is that possible? For a start look at section 437 of thai law which outlines the “faultless liability” in thai law, see below.

As people died the police have to formally close the case so it will not just be forgotten , but proceedings will start after the funerals. Your friend should attend the funerals and send flowers as a start to show remorse.

There is strict, faultless liability for driver of motor vehicles, in Thailand (CCC 431:1) - ,

"Section 437. A person is responsible for injury caused
by any conveyance propelled by mechanism which is in his possession or
control, unless he proves that the injury results from force majeure
or fault of the injured person."

but still there is no moral damages whatever to be awarded in case of death:

"In the case of death, the types of damages are the following:

funeral or other necessary expenses,

medical expense and loss of earning prior to death3,

compensation for the third party for loss of the injured party's services4,

compensation for the third party for loss of the legal support.5

Since the civil and commercial code provide only these six types of damages in the injury causing death, the granted damages may not cover all the harms that the decedent or the person in relationship with the decedent have sustained.

For example, the damages sustained by the decedent such as decedent's loss of earning in the future or the pain and suffering from the injury prior to death are not included in the actionable Slamages6. Also, some damages sustained by the person in relationship with the decedent such as pain and suffering or losses of consortium are unable to claim under the Thailand law."
(The Non-Pecuniary Damages in Wrongful Acts Causing Bodily Harm and Death: The Comparative Study on U.S. and Thailand Laws By Worrawong Atcharawongchai Thailand Law Journal 2013 Spring Issue 1 Volume 16 http://goo.gl/jaE7H7 )






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[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, bubba45 said:

They'd get nothing from Thais; they'd be lucky to get insurance money.  

Amusing how many people think something should be done using the standard of what they imagine Thais-would-do if that seems to cost them less  ...

 

... but immediately want the standard to be what they imagine would be done in western (secret code word: "civilized") countries if that works out better for them.