Serious Accident

[baz69er]

2 hours ago, Ducatiski said:

Hi Baz69er, I went through a similar situation recently and can give you my understanding of how things work in this case. I’d like to reply privately is that possible? For a start look at section 437 of thai law which outlines the “faultless liability” in thai law, see below.

As people died the police have to formally close the case so it will not just be forgotten , but proceedings will start after the funerals. Your friend should attend the funerals and send flowers as a start to show remorse.

There is strict, faultless liability for driver of motor vehicles, in Thailand (CCC 431:1) - ,

"Section 437. A person is responsible for injury caused
by any conveyance propelled by mechanism which is in his possession or
control, unless he proves that the injury results from force majeure
or fault of the injured person."

but still there is no moral damages whatever to be awarded in case of death:

"In the case of death, the types of damages are the following:

funeral or other necessary expenses,

medical expense and loss of earning prior to death3,

compensation for the third party for loss of the injured party's services4,

compensation for the third party for loss of the legal support.5

Since the civil and commercial code provide only these six types of damages in the injury causing death, the granted damages may not cover all the harms that the decedent or the person in relationship with the decedent have sustained.

For example, the damages sustained by the decedent such as decedent's loss of earning in the future or the pain and suffering from the injury prior to death are not included in the actionable Slamages6. Also, some damages sustained by the person in relationship with the decedent such as pain and suffering or losses of consortium are unable to claim under the Thailand law."
(The Non-Pecuniary Damages in Wrongful Acts Causing Bodily Harm and Death: The Comparative Study on U.S. and Thailand Laws By Worrawong Atcharawongchai Thailand Law Journal 2013 Spring Issue 1 Volume 16 http://goo.gl/jaE7H7 )






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o.k

[Thaidaddy]

Would have helped if you had told us who was at fault. If unclear then the truck is at fault given the motor cycle is smaller. Sorry, but that is how they look at it.

Even if you are clearly not at fault, you should always contribute to funeral costs, around THB 25K.

If at fault the cost will go to a minimum of THB 250K, of which, unfortunately, the police will take THB 200K and give the family THB 50K. This assumes the dead people were simple people and the accident occurred in a small town. If in Pattaya, and given the nature of Pattaya police, the price may go up from this.

[Media1]

10 hours ago, NanLaew said:

A good start and I would advise that it be made clear that any payment being made is absolutely final to stop relatives crawling out of the woodwork demanding more. It is non negotiable. 

 

Also fully agree (from experience) that the insurance carrier and the police dealing with the incident need to be fully on board with this.

He was not at fault end of story. He owed 0 Baht. 

Give them 50k and also refer these leaches to the lawyer. They won't be able to afford one and will take 50k

Go away and wear a helmet and obey road laws. They had no.licence good luck

[baz69er]

11 minutes ago, Thaidaddy said:

Would have helped if you had told us who was at fault. If unclear then the truck is at fault given the motor cycle is smaller. Sorry, but that is how they look at it.

Even if you are clearly not at fault, you should always contribute to funeral costs, around THB 25K.

If at fault the cost will go to a minimum of THB 250K, of which, unfortunately, the police will take THB 200K and give the family THB 50K. This assumes the dead people were simple people and the accident occurred in a small town. If in Pattaya, and given the nature of Pattaya police, the price may go up from this.

Its not for me to say who was at fault as I clearly stated in the post that I was asking for advice for a friend, but as you stated (If unclear then the truck is at fault given the motor cycle is smaller) I know this to be true but like I said in my initial post he is waiting for CCTV evidence of the accident.....

[baz69er]

13 minutes ago, Media1 said:

He was not at fault end of story. He owed 0 Baht. 

Give them 50k and also refer these leaches to the lawyer. They won't be able to afford one and will take 50k

Go away and wear a helmet and obey road laws. They had no.licence good luck

I don't know about whether the rider had a motorbike licence or not, but neither of them where wearing helmets & to be honest if they where, would they of protected them? The helmets that are available in Thailand are sub standard & are not fit for purpose........ 

[Lee4Life]

10 hours ago, Fat Prophet said:

It depends on (1) if the accident was his fault and (2) how much the insurance will pay to the families of the victims. I assume that, if his insurance will pay them, fault for the accident must have been assigned to him. If it was his fault and his insurance will pay them a substantial amount (in the range of B200,000 each), he should offer an equal amount. Ultimately, it will be a negotiation with the parents/family and the police will be involved. But, perhaps not surprisingly, the compensation from insurance (and from the person that caused the accident) in the case of death is typically less (much less) than if there is significant injury/permanent disability. 

 

He should discuss this with his insurance company before making an offer to the parents/families. If he was not at fault or fault is not clearly his, he should be careful to avoid any statement/action that would suggest/imply that the fault for the accident is his or that he believes that the accident was his fault. 

A friend of mine said that a Thai acquaintance of his was involved in an accident in which his pickup truck struck and killed a young man on a motorbike, even though the truck driver was found not at fault, he paid the family of the young man 150,000b. When asked why he paid the money out to the family when the accident was not his fault, he looked amazed and said "it doesn't matter that it wasn't my fault...somebody lost their life!"

[harrycallahan]

Could be viewed as an admittance of fault, and then...  Tread carefully. 

[Lee4Life]

1 minute ago, harrycallahan said:

Could be viewed as an admittance of fault, and then...  Tread carefully. 

correct, just depends on what kind of a heart they really have.

[NanLaew]

43 minutes ago, baz69er said:

Its not for me to say who was at fault as I clearly stated in the post that I was asking for advice for a friend, but as you stated (If unclear then the truck is at fault given the motor cycle is smaller) I know this to be true but like I said in my initial post he is waiting for CCTV evidence of the accident.....

In my experience, checking for any CCTV personally makes things go quicker. Mrs NL was given the 'waiting for cctv' excuse by the cops while the relatives of the injured harassed her on the phone (they got her number from the cops). Eventually, we went to the 3 businesses at the intersection where the collision occurred and asked if they had cctv of the intersection. The cameras from two of the businesses didn't cover the intersection, only the immediate front parking area and the third business had his system turned off that night. Mrs NL told the insurance agent who in turn told the police and then that excuse miraculously evaporated. As a lot of us know, expecting the cops to do what they're supposed to do is on a hiding for nothing when a possible gravy train is involved. Doing their job for them in this instance had no untoward impact on the outcome and just sped things up a bit. Of course maybe if we had paid the cops to ignore the relatives, things could have gone even faster but we weren't up for that game.

 

34 minutes ago, baz69er said:

I don't know about whether the rider had a motorbike licence or not, but neither of them where wearing helmets & to be honest if they where, would they of protected them? The helmets that are available in Thailand are sub standard & are not fit for purpose........ 

The helmets are fit for purpose in Thailand.

[baz69er]

23 minutes ago, Lee4Life said:

A friend of mine said that a Thai acquaintance of his was involved in an accident in which his pickup truck struck and killed a young man on a motorbike, even though the truck driver was found not at fault, he paid the family of the young man 150,000b. When asked why he paid the money out to the family when the accident was not his fault, he looked amazed and said "it doesn't matter that it wasn't my fault...somebody lost their life!"

If it genuinely wasn't his fault then its a nice way of thinking (Karma) & I wish everyone was like this, there are some people in this world that don't want to admit that they are wrong in everyday life & especially when it involves taking someone's life then there's no way they are going to except that they are in the wrong.

[baz69er]

For which purpose are they for?

[baz69er]

14 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

In my experience, checking for any CCTV personally makes things go quicker. Mrs NL was given the 'waiting for cctv' excuse by the cops while the relatives of the injured harassed her on the phone (they got her number from the cops). Eventually, we went to the 3 businesses at the intersection where the collision occurred and asked if they had cctv of the intersection. The cameras from two of the businesses didn't cover the intersection, only the immediate front parking area and the third business had his system turned off that night. Mrs NL told the insurance agent who in turn told the police and then that excuse miraculously evaporated. As a lot of us know, expecting the cops to do what they're supposed to do is on a hiding for nothing when a possible gravy train is involved. Doing their job for them in this instance had no untoward impact on the outcome and just sped things up a bit. Of course maybe if we had paid the cops to ignore the relatives, things could have gone even faster but we weren't up for that game.

 

The helmets are fit for purpose in Thailand.

For which purpose are they for?

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Amusing how many people think something should be done using the standard of what they imagine Thais-would-do if that seems to cost them less  ...

 

... but immediately want the standard to be what they imagine would be done in western (secret code word: "civilized") countries if that works out better for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same as those instances, in which both parties involved in an accidents,were Thais. As I have known were the parties at fault stressed they had no money, and so payed nothing. Yet a few knew this was a complete lie. They had land, which nobody was aware of. Unfortunately this excuse for not paying is not available to Farangs, as it’s well known we are all millionaires.

[gamesgplayemail]

Nothing to pay if he has a first class insurance and was not guilty.

 

 

[gamesgplayemail]

7 hours ago, Thaidaddy said:

Would have helped if you had told us who was at fault. If unclear then the truck is at fault given the motor cycle is smaller. Sorry, but that is how they look at it.

Even if you are clearly not at fault, you should always contribute to funeral costs, around THB 25K.

If at fault the cost will go to a minimum of THB 250K, of which, unfortunately, the police will take THB 200K and give the family THB 50K. This assumes the dead people were simple people and the accident occurred in a small town. If in Pattaya, and given the nature of Pattaya police, the price may go up from this.

 

At fault or not I have an insurance that will do its job and I will pay nothing.

How ridiculous is it to think that we have to pay anything when we already pay an insurance.

 

 

[gamesgplayemail]

17 hours ago, mstevens said:

I am ignorant on this issue so can someone please clarify if it is a requirement to compensate other parties / victims of a crash over and above what your insurance company pays them?  Again, call me ignorant.....but I thought that was what insurance was for in the first place - most insurance policies provide cover for material loss i.e. vehicle as well as loss of life.  Can anyone provide a clear explanation as to what the law is and how it is generally interpreted?

 

Nothing pay. It's just like idiots who pay 50000 thb to the cops when caught with weed, because they don't know that the fine in a court is 2000 thb.

 

 

[canthai55]

3 hours ago, gamesgplayemail said:

 

Nothing pay. It's just like idiots who pay 50000 thb to the cops when caught with weed, because they don't know that the fine in a court is 2000 thb.

Just like the idiots who do not know that paying the 50K means you do not go to court

[chicowoodduck]

Just leave your overnight bag at the backdoor and run for the hills....you  are screwed on multiple levels.....and it will never end.....RIP...??

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Just like the idiots who do not know that paying the 50K means you do not go to court

What's wrong with going to court. Many westerners seemed terrified of this and the police. Anyone who pays 50,000 is an idiot in this situation.

Btw, 50,000 is the usual amount paid in a deadly accident to the family.

I wouldn't feel bad unless it was my fault, been drinking or whatever. 

[Neeranam]

12 hours ago, harrycallahan said:

Could be viewed as an admittance of fault, and then...  Tread carefully. 

Not sure what this comes from.

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, bubba45 said:

No good deed goes unpunished.  They'd get nothing from Thais; they'd be lucky to get insurance money.  Start handing out money at his own peril.

They probably would get something from rich Thais. They'd get from insurance too. Why wouldn't they?

[canthai55]

42 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What's wrong with going to court. 

I was quoting the drugs charge. Go to court on possession, bare minimum is blacklist and deport.

Maybe some time in Big Tiger first, then the bare minimum as above.

50K - cheap

[steven100]

I would be hesitant to get involved,  as it could stir up a hornets nest later on ... you just don't know who the family is or connected too.

Let the insurance company deal with it and that's it. Don't get involved.

[Fat Prophet]

6 hours ago, gamesgplayemail said:

 

At fault or not I have an insurance that will do its job and I will pay nothing.

How ridiculous is it to think that we have to pay anything when we already pay an insurance.

 

 

How ridiculous is your comment and your complete lack of understanding of the law and the issues involved. You have insurance -- that's great! Your insurance has liability limits -- look at your policy. Your policy's liability limits are between you and your insurance company and have nothing to do as regards to your liability to a third party that gets injured/killed due to your negligence, carelessness or fault.  That liability, if the accident is your fault, will be assessed based on the injury and loss to the injured party and damage to property as determined by the police (or a court in Thailand if it goes that far), which may be many times greater than the limits set on the insurer's liability under your insurance policy.  Your insurer will pay to the injured person the maximum amount for which it is liable under the policy. YOU (Y-O-U!) will be liable for the additional/excess amount of the injury/damage that YOU caused.

 

And to compound the problem, the limit on personal injury liability under almost all (all that I have looked at) insurance policies in Thailand ("1st class insurance") is B300,000 (or less) per individual per accident, an incredibly small amount and an amount that could be easily exceeded by a relatively minor accident that puts the injured person in the hospital for a few weeks and out of work for 2+ months. And to avoid all of the frustration and problems associated with a protracted court proceeding, including lawyers' fees which could be as much or more than the amount paid to the injured person, many thoughtful people (obviously, not you) negotiate a settlement with the injured person to get the matter resolved amicably and quickly. And that settlement may mean that the person uninjured (whether clearly at fault or not) compensates the injured person or his/her family to resolve the matter.  Provided that care is taken in the process, it may be/often is the best way for everyone to resolve quickly and efficiently an unpleasant and difficult situation and move on with their lives, notwithstanding that it is "ridiculous" to you. Your insurance will, no doubt "do its job" up to its policy limits, but I seriously doubt that you are capable of doing yours. Next.......... 

[gamesgplayemail]

39 minutes ago, Fat Prophet said:

How ridiculous is your comment and your complete lack of understanding of the law and the issues involved. You have insurance -- that's great! Your insurance has liability limits -- look at your policy. Your policy's liability limits are between you and your insurance company and have nothing to do as regards to your liability to a third party that gets injured/killed due to your negligence, carelessness or fault.  That liability, if the accident is your fault, will be assessed based on the injury and loss to the injured party and damage to property as determined by the police (or a court in Thailand if it goes that far), which may be many times greater than the limits set on the insurer's liability under your insurance policy.  Your insurer will pay to the injured person the maximum amount for which it is liable under the policy. YOU (Y-O-U!) will be liable for the additional/excess amount of the injury/damage that YOU caused.

 

And to compound the problem, the limit on personal injury liability under almost all (all that I have looked at) insurance policies in Thailand ("1st class insurance") is B300,000 (or less) per individual per accident, an incredibly small amount and an amount that could be easily exceeded by a relatively minor accident that puts the injured person in the hospital for a few weeks and out of work for 2+ months. And to avoid all of the frustration and problems associated with a protracted court proceeding, including lawyers' fees which could be as much or more than the amount paid to the injured person, many thoughtful people (obviously, not you) negotiate a settlement with the injured person to get the matter resolved amicably and quickly. And that settlement may mean that the person uninjured (whether clearly at fault or not) compensates the injured person or his/her family to resolve the matter.  Provided that care is taken in the process, it may be/often is the best way for everyone to resolve quickly and efficiently an unpleasant and difficult situation and move on with their lives, notwithstanding that it is "ridiculous" to you. Your insurance will, no doubt "do its job" up to its policy limits, but I seriously doubt that you are capable of doing yours. Next.......... 

 

Luckily I drive so fast that if anything happens the people will certainly be dead and it will be cheaper !

 

And for people like you with a big mouth who think that they know more than anybody else, my insurance will pay at least 1 million, which is more than what anybody injured or dead deserve in this country.

 

Stop commenting based on your cheap life and ridiculous insurance policy, we are not living at the same level and will never.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[canthai55]

43 minutes ago, gamesgplayemail said:

 which is more than what anybody injured or dead deserve in this country.

Wow !

[Fat Prophet]

53 minutes ago, gamesgplayemail said:

 

Luckily I drive so fast that if anything happens the people will certainly be dead and it will be cheaper !

 

And for people like you with a big mouth who think that they know more than anybody else, my insurance will pay at least 1 million, which is more than what anybody injured or dead deserve in this country.

 

Stop commenting based on your cheap life and ridiculous insurance policy, we are not living at the same level and will never.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are very right that "we are not living at the same level". Next time you are traveling around, look up (very far up) and you might see me (if you have good eyesight) far above the muck in which you wallow....

[JungleBiker]

In Laos, the police can lock up the driver (regardless of who is at fault), and also impound the driver's car, until s/he has paid compensation money to the bereaved family. They will not accept bail. They can keep you for a year without being charged/trialled. So you either pay or you stay in prison.

 

I think I have read on this forum that the same can happen in Thailand. 

[baz69er]

15 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In my experience, checking for any CCTV personally makes things go quicker. Mrs NL was given the 'waiting for cctv' excuse by the cops while the relatives of the injured harassed her on the phone (they got her number from the cops). Eventually, we went to the 3 businesses at the intersection where the collision occurred and asked if they had cctv of the intersection. The cameras from two of the businesses didn't cover the intersection, only the immediate front parking area and the third business had his system turned off that night. Mrs NL told the insurance agent who in turn told the police and then that excuse miraculously evaporated. As a lot of us know, expecting the cops to do what they're supposed to do is on a hiding for nothing when a possible gravy train is involved. Doing their job for them in this instance had no untoward impact on the outcome and just sped things up a bit. Of course maybe if we had paid the cops to ignore the relatives, things could have gone even faster but we weren't up for that game.

 

The helmets are fit for purpose in Thailand.

Thai helmets meet absolutely no standards anywhere in the world. There are no standards in Thailand and no way to test to other standards. If Thai helmets could be tested, they would not pass either US or EU testing.

[baz69er]

9 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

In Laos, the police can lock up the driver (regardless of who is at fault), and also impound the driver's car, until s/he has paid compensation money to the bereaved family. They will not accept bail. They can keep you for a year without being charged/trialled. So you either pay or you stay in prison.

 

I think I have read on this forum that the same can happen in Thailand. 

Most probably if you was involved in a serious accident & you was over the alcohol limit or high on drugs etc.