Two American women held in Thailand after allegedly caught with fake US dollars

[amykat]

1 hour ago, Paul Catton said:

I am not a "White Knight" and damsels in distress are usually distressed by lack of responsibility for their own actions.

Would we really have 61 pages of commentary if the genders were reversed and it was a Bill & Ted from any location that is perceived as Western society.

 

Certainly not.  You would be sure they did it, but then sympathize because they were surely broke after drinking and whoring their way around SE Asia and needed the money, duh?  Or they were broke and broken men after their Western divorce and needed it.  You would be giving them plenty of advice about how to get the hell out of here, how to take advantage of the system, etc.   Or they probably were taken advantage of by so many SE Asian women, and were left with nothing so they really needed that money, the excuses would be endless ...for the men!!!!

 

You are not a white knight? What are you doing here??  Only some damsels not white ones??

[Paul Catton]

15 hours ago, amykat said:

Certainly not.  You would be sure they did it, but then sympathize because they were surely broke after drinking and whoring their way around SE Asia and needed the money, duh?  Or they were broke and broken men after their Western divorce and needed it.  You would be giving them plenty of advice about how to get the hell out of here, how to take advantage of the system, etc.   Or they probably were taken advantage of by so many SE Asian women, and were left with nothing so they really needed that money, the excuses would be endless ...for the men!!!!

 

You are not a white knight? What are you doing here??  Only some damsels not white ones??

Incorrect on all points.

[sanemax]

On 3/4/2018 at 10:45 AM, Makara said:

I will only address this one last time and then be completley done unless private. This is not about wether they are guilty, how they handled the counterfeit money or anything else pertaining to the crime, this is about if it is a scam or not. It is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme. 

It is indeed a scam to collect money from gofundme and use it for things other than that was stated in the post asking for donations .

   That is stated in the GFM terms and conditions .

The post asking for donations must be truthful and honest and all monies collected must be used for that purpose .

   If people were dishonest on their GM page and they use money collected for things other than what was stated , that is indeed a scam , they are scamming donators using false presences .

   IMO , they have not been completely honest , the only thing that I am unsure about is their level of dishonesty .

   I do not believe that they thought the money was real money , so, either one of two things probably happened .

  1 . They found the money , knowing it was fake and decided to take it to Thailand to try to change it for Baht , thinking that as they are Americans , it wouldnt arouse suspicion if they changed American money in an exchange .

  They didnt try to spend it in Cambodia , because everyone there is aware of "ghost " money .

 2 . They found the fake money in Cambodia and took it to Thailand and thought about trying to exchange it and realised that they may get caught and get into trouble , and they then thought that if they got into trouble trying to exchange the money , they could start a GFM page to raise money to bail them out , they then thought , Lets not bother trying to change the money and lets just start a gofundme page , that way, we cannot get into trouble for trying to exchange the fake money.

  Whatever way you look at it , its a scam .

What should they have done with the money ?

Left it where it was , not even touch it , its wasnt theirs to take 

[smx1313]

18 hours ago, Paul Catton said:

Think about the new skills they might learn at the Chiang Mai Women's Correctional Institute as part of their rehabilitation program under Vocational Training.

Traditional Thai massage and preparation of Thai cuisine.

I vaguely remember an episode of Locked Up Abroad where, as a result of a long imprisonment, an American became fluent in the language of the country where he was locked up. Korea? Japan? Upon being released and returning home he was able to find employment because he was bi-lingual. 

 

So…who knows?

 

I imagine having a company that works as a liaison or consultant for families of Americans jailed in Thailand could be quite lucrative.

 

*Edited to add that right after I posted this I thought "I bet people reading this in Thailand just went 'hmmm, he might be onto something there'." So when you start your consultant company just remember that I have extensive Thailand experience and I'm available to have face to face meetings with clients in the USA.

Edited March 6, 2018 by smx1313

[Makara]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

It is indeed a scam to collect money from gofundme and use it for things other than that was stated in the post asking for donations .

   That is stated in the GFM terms and conditions .

The post asking for donations must be truthful and honest and all monies collected must be used for that purpose .

   If people were dishonest on their GM page and they use money collected for things other than what was stated , that is indeed a scam , they are scamming donators using false presences .

   IMO , they have not been completely honest , the only thing that I am unsure about is their level of dishonesty .

   I do not believe that they thought the money was real money , so, either one of two things probably happened .

  1 . They found the money , knowing it was fake and decided to take it to Thailand to try to change it for Baht , thinking that as they are Americans , it wouldnt arouse suspicion if they changed American money in an exchange .

  They didnt try to spend it in Cambodia , because everyone there is aware of "ghost " money .

 2 . They found the fake money in Cambodia and took it to Thailand and thought about trying to exchange it and realised that they may get caught and get into trouble , and they then thought that if they got into trouble trying to exchange the money , they could start a GFM page to raise money to bail them out , they then thought , Lets not bother trying to change the money and lets just start a gofundme page , that way, we cannot get into trouble for trying to exchange the fake money.

  Whatever way you look at it , its a scam .

What should they have done with the money ?

Left it where it was , not even touch it , its wasnt theirs to take 

All speculation.

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Makara said:

All speculation.

The Gofundme terms and conditions are not speculation .

Its written on the page itself .

All monies raised must be used for the purpose intended and the reasons given for asking for donations must be honest and correct .

   Its not allowed to make up a story and then use the money raised to spend on what you want .

   That is deception

[Makara]

15 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The Gofundme terms and conditions are not speculation .

Its written on the page itself .

All monies raised must be used for the purpose intended and the reasons given for asking for donations must be honest and correct .

   Its not allowed to make up a story and then use the money raised to spend on what you want .

   That is deception

They didn't make up the story. The gofundme was investigated due to people reporting it as a scam, they concluded it is not a scam, and they are raising money for lawyer fees. But still you are only going to hear what you want,  not what is fact. 

[Makara]

Just now, Makara said:

They didn't make up the story. The gofundme was investigated due to people reporting it as a scam, they concluded it is not a scam, and they are raising money for lawyer fees. But still you are only going to hear what you want,  not what is fact. 

Further more all your post was, was speculation about the fake money and how it went down. You're speculating what happened. 

[Makara]

1 minute ago, Makara said:

Further more all your post was, was speculation about the fake money and how it went down. You're speculating what happened. 

And even furthermore the people donating do not feel scammed in anyway shape or form.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Makara said:

Further more all your post was, was speculation about the fake money and how it went down. You're speculating what happened. 

Yes, I do not believe that they mistook fake money for real money .

I also believe that they posted that they found the money of Facebook as a prelude to the scam .

   IMO, that was their sole intention of posting that on FB .

1 . We found some money .

2. Oh no, it was fake money .

3. We need a huge amount of money for Lawyers fees .

   How convenient .

 

[Makara]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Yes, I do not believe that they mistook fake money for real money .

I also believe that they posted that they found the money of Facebook as a prelude to the scam .

   IMO, that was their sole intention of posting that on FB .

1 . We found some money .

2. Oh no, it was fake money .

3. We need a huge amount of money for Lawyers fees .

   How convenient .

 

You're so off and still speculating.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Makara said:

They didn't make up the story. The gofundme was investigated due to people reporting it as a scam, they concluded it is not a scam, and they are raising money for lawyer fees. But still you are only going to hear what you want,  not what is fact. 

I would very much like to hear some facts , which confirm their story .

Has there been any facts produced to confirm their story ?

Any updates ?

When is their next Court case ?

Will they be pleading Guilty or not ?

What have they been charged with ?

 

[Makara]

3 minutes ago, Makara said:

You're so off and still speculating.

Definition of speculation: the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. 

[Salengrider]

I find it funny how dead set sane max is on proving this is a scam.

Makara, you are really wasting your time debating this with someone who has an opinion as strong as sanemax.

 

Proving anything to sanemax is not going to help anyone.

 

Keep on trying to help your friends

 

Haters gonna hate

 

[sanemax]

Just now, Makara said:

Definition of speculation: the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. 

Please provide any "firm evidence" , to stop any speculation .

Without any firm evidence , people may come to the wrong conclusion .

[Makara]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I would very much like to hear some facts , which confirm their story .

Has there been any facts produced to confirm their story ?

Any updates ?

When is their next Court case ?

Will they be pleading Guilty or not ?

What have they been charged with ?

 

As you should know they drag these things out. 12 day spurts lasting up to 84 days. If you think for a moment that it won't be exposed, you are mistaken. It hasn't even been 12 days since released on bail. You should know it will take time

[nausea]

Butter wouldn't melt in their mouth. Ha!

[sanemax]

Just now, Makara said:

As you should know they drag these things out. 12 day spurts lasting up to 84 days. If you think for a moment that it won't be exposed, you are mistaken. It hasn't even been 12 days since released on bail. You should know it will take time

No, they only have to go to Court every 12 days if they are being held in Custody , as they are not being held in custody , they wont have to go to Court every 12 days

[Makara]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

No, they only have to go to Court every 12 days if they are being held in Custody , as they are not being held in custody , they wont have to go to Court every 12 days

Oh okay so what does holding their passports mean? They are free to leave whenever they want. Smh

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Makara said:

Oh okay so what does holding their passports mean? They are free to leave whenever they want. Smh

I didnt suggest that they are free to leave .

I just stated that they wont have to go to Court every 12 days to get a Court ruling as to whether the Thai Police can keep them in custody or nor , because, they are not in Custody and therefore do not need to get it extended

[Makara]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I didnt suggest that they are free to leave .

I just stated that they wont have to go to Court every 12 days to get a Court ruling as to whether the Thai Police can keep them in custody or nor , because, they are not in Custody and therefore do not need to get it extended

Well I am glad you know what is really going on then...

 

To answer your question, there are no answers yet, obviously. Obviously, there is still an ongoing investigation.

 

Obviously.

 

So to ask these questions means you are just baiting in a nonsensical way.

[giddyup]

Just now, Makara said:

Well I am glad you know what is really going on then...

 

To answer your question, there are no answers yet, obviously. Obviously, there is still an ongoing investigation.

 

Obviously.

 

So to ask these questions means you are just baiting in a nonsensical way.

Why do you keep responding to a bait?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Makara said:

Well I am glad you know what is really going on then...

To answer your question, there are no answers yet, obviously. Obviously, there is still an ongoing investigation.

Obviously.

So to ask these questions means you are just baiting in a nonsensical way.

Asking questions to find out facts really isnt "baiting in a nonsensical way"

Only people who are trying to hide something, dislike questions

[Makara]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Why do you keep responding to a bait?

Great question. I'm done with it :)

[james.d]

I read like the first 30ish pages and will get through the remaining.

 

Is there any checks/balances to know how much is remaining in the account to date, i see 10.733 USD raised. 

[sanemax]

If they have been arrested and are in the Thai judiciary system . 

What I would suggest is to admit everything , dont lie or try to deceive anyone , hold you hands up and admit what you did .

   Thailand isnt like the Western World , where a good expensive Lawyer can get you a not guilty verdict . 

  The prosecution and defense quite often work together , usually with the Police as well .

  If you deny everything and plead not guilty , they could add further charges .

Before any Court case , the Police will probably say to you "Admit everything and we wont charge you with more serious offences" , and they will tell you what the punishment is likely to be .

  Also , if you plead not guilty , your sentence will automatically be halved .

They really wouldnt even need a Lawyer , just go to Court , admit what they did and accept the punishment .

Edited March 6, 2018 by sanemax
add a word

[giddyup]

Just now, sanemax said:

If they have been arrested and are in the Thai judiciary system . 

What I would suggest is to admit everything , dont lie or try to deceive anyone , hold you hands up and admit what you did .

   Thailand isnt like the Western World , where a good expensive Lawyer can get you a not guilty verdict . 

  The prosecution and defense quite often work together , usually with the Police as well .

  If you deny everything and plead not guilty , they could add further charges .

Before any Court case , the Police will probably say to you "Admit everything and we wont charge you with more serious offences" , and they will tell you what the punishment is likely to be .

  Also , if you plead guilty , your sentence will automatically be halved .

They really wouldnt even need a Lawyer , just go to Court , admit what they did and accept the punishment .

That's the most sensible response I've read so far. This rush to raise huge amounts of money on gofundme stinks of a scam.

[sanemax]

33 minutes ago, giddyup said:

That's the most sensible response I've read so far. This rush to raise huge amounts of money on gofundme stinks of a scam.

Yes, they initially asked for U.S.$ 150 000 , but that has been reduced now.

A Lawyer in Thailand charge about 50 $ an hour and ten hours of his time would be sufficient , thats 500 $US , divided by the two of them .

(Bail money is returned )

   It would be a straight forward case , they claim that they thought the money was real and will the Judge believe them, they wouldn't need a Lawyer to state that.

   Also, if they claim that they thought that the money was real , the Judge may regard that as being theft (which it is).

   And why shouldnt the girls pay for their own lawyer fees ?, after all, they would be US$1000 richer , had their deception worked .

   It would be better if the girls just admitted that they found the money, knew that it was fake and tried their luck trying to exchange it .

   Probably just get a suspended sentence and a fine .

If they were to approach the case as just two naive back-packers , who tried their luck and got caught and made stupid mistake, which they regret  , they would get dealt with leniently .

   If they arrive in Court , with an expensive Lawyer who tries to pull the wool over the Judges eyes , he may then view them as professional fraudsters and sentence them accordingly 

[giddyup]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

    If they arrive in Court , with an expensive Lawyer who tries to pull the wool over the Judges eyes , he may then view them as professional fraudsters and sentence them accordingly 

Wouldn't that be ironic. What will they do with all the money collected if they take your advice, ie throw themselves on the mercy of the court?

Edited March 6, 2018 by giddyup

[Paul Catton]

20 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Wouldn't that be ironic.

No, Justice served.

I agree with sanemax, admission, contrition, restitution and the storm in a teacup could well have been averted.

Perhaps still can.