Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[webfact]

OPINION:

Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

Zoe Williams

The Guardian

 

From homelessness to prisons and welfare, the social safety net is failing. Brexit is suffocating the Tory government

 

There’s a homeless shelter near my house, which is one of a few reasons why I’ve never seriously considered the possibility that anyone might freeze to death on the streets overnight.

 

The news is full of previously unfamiliar phrases about emergency cold weather provision for rough sleepers “kicking in” when the temperature hits zero. When it gets cold enough, no one is turned away. Shelters start to open during the day. Local politicians, mayors especially, talk determinedly about how to combat homelessness, and charities are mollified and surprised.

 

Yet deaths on the streets have been happening quite regularly since the start of winter. Walking past a guy I see every day, in progressively worse shape, the question mark over whether or not he’ll survive the month arrives not as a thought, more as a disembodied echo. Is it blase not to worry? Or melodramatic to mention it?

 

The sense that a Conservative government might be callous is not an unfamiliar one: the contention that actual deaths have resulted from discernible policies is one that only slick-looking men on magazine-format current affairs programmes put any gusto into denying. Yet there is a creeping suspicion that the government has completely ground to a halt.

 

Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/27/brexit-chaos-britain-homelessness-prisons-welfare

 

-- The Guardian 2018-02-28

[cooked]

maybe there is a housing shortage due to the impossibility of planning for an economy that allows hundreds of thousands of immigrants in every year? 

Dunno, that;s probably racist.

[Samui Bodoh]

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[Blackheart1916]

Ridiculous article. From the Guardian, so any semblance of reality is fleeting at best. So none of these problems existed before the Brexit vote? I doubt it. Anti Brexit people are like anti Trumpers - blame for any and all ills, real or imagined, are laid at the doorstep of Brexit and Trump. You got beat, get over it, carry on. If the quick Brexit had been started, it would almost be finished now, but the anti Brexit crowd seem to now enjoy being perpetually aggrieved.

[Blackheart1916]

46 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

So keep voting until you get the result you want?

[Air Smiles]

3 minutes ago, Blackheart1916 said:

So keep voting until you get the result you want?

 

So stop voting because you got the result you wanted?

[F4UCorsair]

56 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

 

The vote was in favor of an exit, a point that some people seem to have difficulty with.

 

Why put the whole move off?    Wouldn't just extending the two years be a better proposal?   Of course it would, except in the minds of those who are still opposing it.

Edited February 27, 2018 by F4UCorsair

[FritsSikkink]

Has NOTHING to do with Brexit, it hasn't even happened yet. It is the Tory government who is responsible

[steve187]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

so lets stay in for another 20 years and all the while making plans to leave,  would that not be against the will of the people, we have got to suck it up and go for it, my whole adult life has been under the thumb of the EU, a decision ( other than a 'shall we stay in the common market' referendum many years ago), that was forced on us by a string of Governments without any consultation with the people, so forget the lets have another referendum, all the rubbish being said by non UK citizens, stop the Government in-house fighting and the MP's waiting to stab  someone in the back for the top job. MP's get on with the job that the people want, or get out and go work for a living.

Edited February 28, 2018 by steve187

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

If you ignore this referendum result, as you propose and support, the consequence would be that nobody henceforth would take any referendum seriously, knowing that the outcome need not be acted upon. It wouldn't matter how many times the politicians were to tell us that, "no, really, this time we'll listen to how you vote and let you decide". Nobody would believe them. How could they?

 

That's the thing. There's no turning back when you set a precedent.

 

Remainers don't seem to comprehend the damage they would be doing by overturning the referendum. It would far far outweigh any potential damage Brexit will do.

 

If you think the UK is a divided country facing lots of difficulties now, you haven't seen anything yet, once you get your way.

[nakhonandy]

Typical Grauniad claptrap, nothing to do with Brexit. Countries all over Europe have the same issues, not just the UK.

 

Then again honesty does not fit the left labour agenda, which has always been passionately anti EU, until it was trendy to lable all Brexit voters right wing racists.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, cooked said:

maybe there is a housing shortage due to the impossibility of planning for an economy that allows hundreds of thousands of immigrants in every year? 

Dunno, that;s probably racist.

Maybe there's a housing shortage because the builders aren't building, instead, they're not releasing land from their land banks in order to maintain high prices and profit margins.

 

And maybe there's a shortage because NIMBY's won't allow planning permission on the green belt.

 

And maybe there's a housing shortage because landowners aren't releasing land and government isn't making them sell.

 

Really, immigrants in the UK have absolutely zero to do with this subject other than your personal racist agenda.

 

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, Air Smiles said:

 

So stop voting because you got the result you wanted?

No, stop voting until the outcome of the last referendum has actually been upheld, acted upon and been given a chance to work or fail. Then call for another referendum, if that is your prerogative.

 

One referendum at a time, or else let's just have one every week why not.

[Get Real]

That´s what happens when people voting do not know what they vote for at all.

[FreddieRoyle]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

 Thanks for outlining the globalist/remainer stance. Wait just a few more years/another generation until the demographic makeup of Great Britain has been swamped with foreigners to the degree that Brits are a small minority in their own homeland, and then hold a referendum knowing full well that the globalist agenda will prevail and the Brits will end up a lame and dwindling curio much like American (red)Indians or Australia's indiginous peoples. Sad to see nothing has been learned from historical acts of evil. 

 

For the record, the chaos surrounding Brexit is solely due to the losers of the democratic referendum being unable to accept that the vote went against their wishes. It is comical seeing the likes of Blair who wouldn't allow a single referendum on the issue now calling for a 2nd one. Jaw dropping hypocrisy.

[Samui Bodoh]

2 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

 Thanks for outlining the globalist/remainer stance. Wait just a few more years/another generation until the demographic makeup of Great Britain has been swamped with foreigners to the degree that Brits are a small minority in their own homeland, and then hold a referendum knowing full well that the globalist agenda will prevail and the Brits will end up a lame and dwindling curio much like American (red)Indians or Australia's indiginous peoples. Sad to see nothing has been learned from historical acts of evil. 

 

For the record, the chaos surrounding Brexit is solely due to the losers of the democratic referendum being unable to accept that the vote went against their wishes. It is comical seeing the likes of Blair who wouldn't allow a single referendum on the issue now calling for a 2nd one. Jaw dropping hypocrisy.

 "...Thanks for outlining the globalist/remainer stance..."

 

Hmm... respectfully, you have not understood my post at all; this is not about whether Brexit is a good idea or not.

 

The UK is undertaking some of the most important negotiations in its entire history, and it seems to be doing so without any consensus on its objectives, without adequate preparation, without people who actually agree with what they are negotiating and without any agreed upon aims and goals. In short they seem to be "winging it".

 

That is a recipe for disaster.

 

A wise man once said, "when you are in a hole, stop digging."

 

 

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

 Thanks for outlining the globalist/remainer stance. Wait just a few more years/another generation until the demographic makeup of Great Britain has been swamped with foreigners to the degree that Brits are a small minority in their own homeland, and then hold a referendum knowing full well that the globalist agenda will prevail and the Brits will end up a lame and dwindling curio much like American (red)Indians or Australia's indiginous peoples. Sad to see nothing has been learned from historical acts of evil. 

 

For the record, the chaos surrounding Brexit is solely due to the losers of the democratic referendum being unable to accept that the vote went against their wishes. It is comical seeing the likes of Blair who wouldn't allow a single referendum on the issue now calling for a 2nd one. Jaw dropping hypocrisy.

A typical Brexiteer response to the problem: it's never the realities of the decision but instead the problem is people such as remainers or globalists who are interfering.........for people like you it's always going to be something else, it's never going to be the initial decision to leave.

[FreddieRoyle]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

A typical Brexiteer response to the problem: it's never the realities of the decision but instead the problem is people such as remainers or globalists who are interfering.........for people like you it's always going to be something else, it's never going to be the initial decision to leave.

Look, the realities are that German auto manufacturers want desperately to sell cars to Britain, likewise French cheese-makers and wineries, Italian jewelers, and British manufacturers want to sell products to European consumers etc etc. A sensible trade agreement could be hashed out in half an hour by professionals.  What is happening has nothing to do with the Brexit as such, it is just resistance by attrition due to an inability to accept electoral defeat, and the end result of this could get very ugly. Stick to democratic procedure and get us out of the European superstate project pronto without these endless threats and diversions which only complicate and confuse simple minds. 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Look, the realities are that German auto manufacturers want desperately to sell cars to Britain, likewise French cheese-makers and wineries, Italian jewelers, and British manufacturers want to sell products to European consumers etc etc. A sensible trade agreement could be hashed out in half an hour by professionals.  What is happening has nothing to do with the Brexit as such, it is just resistance by attrition due to an inability to accept electoral defeat, and the end result of this could get very ugly. Stick to democratic procedure and get us out of the European superstate project pronto without these endless threats and diversions which only complicate and confuse simple minds. 

How odd, you seem to think that Brexit only involves commercial aspects and nothing to do with everything else such as border control, security, customs, fishing rights, people's rights, the justice system, defense, health, farming, science plus the separation of thousands and thousands of active legislation that have been enacted since we took membership. Perhaps you advise a clean break where we ignore all those factors, just go out and sign trade agreements to get some money coming in and everything else will be OK later, hmmm!

[mercman24]

as to the housing problem years ago i had a grievance and the housing officer gave me a visit and out of the horses mouth said they had to keep some empty houses back for the proposed housing of immigrants, what a bloody joke,  when i left, my flat was empty for 6 months, and they ripped up every single nice thing that a new tenant would have been thankful for, expensive curtains went, all my lovely wooden flooring ripped out, just a concrete shell left, health and safety gone mad.

[Wiggy]

3 hours ago, cooked said:

maybe there is a housing shortage due to the impossibility of planning for an economy that allows hundreds of thousands of immigrants in every year? 

Dunno, that;s probably racist.

I'm not sure it's racist, but your comment says to me that those who are homeless could afford a home if there was one available. I'm not sure that's the case. Besides, most immigrants don't suddenly turn up and automatically get 'given' a property to live in, thus denying others. That is somewhat of a myth. Just saying.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

How odd, you seem to think that Brexit only involves commercial aspects and nothing to do with everything else such as border control, security, customs, fishing rights, people's rights, the justice system, defense, health, farming, science plus the separation of thousands and thousands of active legislation that have been enacted since we took membership. Perhaps you advise a clean break where we ignore all those factors, just go out and sign trade agreements to get some money coming in and everything else will be OK later, hmmm!

 

Indeed. We have read over and over again, what are the negatives of staying or leaving.

 

Why not to write what are the positives of UK staying in EU and what are the positives departing the Union. That way the picture of benefits of staying and leaving might become more clear.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Blackheart1916 said:

Ridiculous article. From the Guardian, so any semblance of reality is fleeting at best. So none of these problems existed before the Brexit vote? I doubt it. Anti Brexit people are like anti Trumpers - blame for any and all ills, real or imagined, are laid at the doorstep of Brexit and Trump. You got beat, get over it, carry on. If the quick Brexit had been started, it would almost be finished now, but the anti Brexit crowd seem to now enjoy being perpetually aggrieved.

The "government" seem to do nothing except argue over Brexit. Not only have they taken their eye off the ball, they've lost it.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Blackheart1916 said:

So keep voting until you get the result you want?

If necessary yes! And we will ?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

 

Indeed. We have read over and over again, what are the negatives of staying or leaving.

 

Why not to write what are the positives of UK staying in EU and what are the positives departing the Union. That way the picture of benefits of staying and leaving might become more clear.

I have no observation on the benefits of staying or leaving, my response above was solely in response to a poster who thinks we can just send out to some commercial people to sign contracts and that can be done quickly and the job's then done....naive at best!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

so lets stay in for another 20 years and all the while making plans to leave,  would that not be against the will of the people, we have got to suck it up and go for it, my whole adult life has been under the thumb of the EU, a decision ( other than a 'shall we stay in the common market' referendum many years ago), that was forced on us by a string of Governments without any consultation with the people, so forget the lets have another referendum, all the rubbish being said by non UK citizens, stop the Government in-house fighting and the MP's waiting to stab  someone in the back for the top job. MP's get on with the job that the people want, or get out and go work for a living.

How has the EU harmed you? Personally?

 

I, and my greater family, have benefited handsomely so I would be interested to understand your stance

[CGW]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

Ah - the "globalist" view point, you were easily swayed! but they are pumping as much time and money into getting their way, despite a clear vote to get out. Why would anyone want to be ruled by non elected officials in another country!

[Laughing Gravy]

The same boring, repetitive rhetoric peddled by the left wing, luvvies. Everyone knew what they voted for. If you didn't then don't vote. a typical whining remoaning article. As a 'Labour paper' you would expect nothing else. it is a shame as it was a majority of Labour voters who voted leave. The same fear mongering predictions is still happening and each time, ridiculed for its authenticity. no doubt we will get the usual remoaners going on about democracy, how we should have another vote, people didn't know what they voted for, uneducated people voted leave. It is a tosh.

 

I wonder if this thread lasts 800 plus pages. If it is like the Guardian comments section it will not, as anything that is said against the remain camp gets deleted or you get suspended for voicing an opinion.

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Look, the realities are that German auto manufacturers want desperately to sell cars to Britain, likewise French cheese-makers and wineries, Italian jewelers, and British manufacturers want to sell products to European consumers etc etc. A sensible trade agreement could be hashed out in half an hour by professionals.  What is happening has nothing to do with the Brexit as such, it is just resistance by attrition due to an inability to accept electoral defeat, and the end result of this could get very ugly. Stick to democratic procedure and get us out of the European superstate project pronto without these endless threats and diversions which only complicate and confuse simple minds. 

German car makers don't give a stuff. They know UK demographic As and Bs will continue to buy their beautifully engineered and produced vehicles even if they cost 10% more (in reality they will use the duty as an excuse to raise prices further). No, the biggest damage will be to cheap Japanese cars assembled in the U.K. With complex supply chains.

 

I will continue to guzzle St Agur regardless ?

[FreddieRoyle]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

German car makers don't give a stuff.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/924875/german-companies-panicking-brexit-looms-survey