Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh right, so when the UK Conservative Party complain about 'Regulations on business from the EU' that's right wing regulations is it?

 

Are the EU regulations protecting the environment right wing regulations?

 

How about EU regulations on the banks (that the Tories are eager to get rid of) are those right wing regulations. 

 

Let's not forget EU laws on human rights, gosh more rightwing stuff.

 

EU laws on protecting personal privacy, sickening righwing EU thinking. 

 

EU courts forcing corporations to pay more tax - a sneaky rightwing plot.

 

The EU and that idea they have to enact the Common Consolidated Tax Base and in doing so close loop holes businesses use to dodge tax - More EU rightwing laws thankfully delayed by the objections of Britain's left wing Tory government. 

 

Away with you and your nonsense claims George.

EU regulations are actually damaging the environment overall.   

 

An who do you think will benefit from the extra tax revenue?? 

[Airbagwill]

A Brexiteer wouldn't recognise a right-wing politician if one jackbooted into his house and told him to leave the EU. He'd probably swallow it hook line and sinker.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Airbagwill

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

EU regulations are actually damaging the environment overall.   

 

An who do you think will benefit from the extra tax revenue?? 

I'd love to see your evidence that the EU regulations are damaging the environment. 

 

Who benefits from the extra tax revenue depends on which country, which government. Right now multinational corporations are benefitting from not paying taxes - the likes of Amazon dodging taxes that local traders have to pay.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

A Brexiteer wouldn't recognise a right-wing politician if one jackbooted into his house and told him to leave the EU. He'd probably swallow it hook line and sinker.

The simple fact that the Brexit campaign was bankrolled by a handful of billionaires and multimillionaires ought to have been a clue that Brexit is not about helping out ordinary working people.

 

OK I understand that escaped a few, but then the Brexiteer leadership is headed by Etonians that went on the Oxbridge and then into hedge fund management. They could not be more representative of the 'Elite'.

 

But then there's nothing happier than a working class Brit doffing his hat to his 'betters'. 

[Airbagwill]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexit is not about helping out ordinary working people.

No, it's about hoodwinking ordinary working people, which is the basis of just about every right-wing movement n history ... coupled with a reliance a breathtaking ignorance of history.

[Airbagwill]

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

EU regulations are actually damaging the environment overall.   

You might want to bacm that up with an exampleexample and explain how Brexit will do better. I would suggest that to be extremely unlikely.

As scientists against Brexit have eexplained by the bucket load - http://www.scientistsforeu.uk

(BTW  There is no science for Brexit site.)

Edited April 6, 2018 by Airbagwill

[nauseus]

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I'd love to see your evidence that the EU regulations are damaging the environment. 

 

Who benefits from the extra tax revenue depends on which country, which government. Right now multinational corporations are benefitting from not paying taxes - the likes of Amazon dodging taxes that local traders have to pay.

 

The EU is obsessed with reducing carbon emissions at any cost as they try to satisfy their own unachievable emissions targets. Inefficient and costly wind farms, which need at least a strong breeze to work at all, cannot supply a constant supply of power, so that existing power stations have to be kept on line anyway. Biofuels still emit carbon, use up vast tracts of good agricultural land, and so vastly reduce real food output capability.

 

The result of all this is much higher food and energy costs all round, with most costs passed directly passed on to the consumers (EU citizens).

 

EU waste management policies have farmers collecting sewage and industrial waste to be stored on farms until ploughing time stuffs it into arable fields...disgusting...all because of the idiotic EU landfill directive. The EU is financially and environmentally irresponsible but people just believe the propaganda.

 

I'd love to see your evidence that the EU regulations are improving the environment.

 

Tax Q no answer as expected. Thanks. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by nauseus

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Grouse said:

Don't worry, I said I would take a look AND stop for a dram and a pint of heavy! I used to work Ardersier building jackets for McDermott with Glasgow fitters. Salt o' earth!

I was brought up not far from Ardersier and knew many that went to work there, I was away defending the realm when it came about. My brother used to work on the jackets and was one of the last to leave when the site went to care and maintenance. Forres and Nairn are now virtually ghost towns and Kinloss was taken over by the Army with about half the previous personnel, businesses are closing on a regular basis

Most of those I know voted against independence, mainly due to a local dislike of Alex Salmond, the area was one his rallying points back in his early days when he was a bit of an extremist.

Many are now beginning to regret that vote as there is little faith in Westminster stepping up to the plate when the EU funding comes to an end.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-set-to-lose-200m-a-year-in-funding-after-uk-leaves-eu-1-4167989

 

Before any smart alec starts quoting polls, 'regretting the vote' does not equate to wanting another referendum, 2 separate issues.

[CG1 Blue]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Look I don't want to be a pedant

 

I do believe that more than 50% of the UK electorate are not in favour of Brexit. Yes, many were not sufficiently motivated to be bothered to vote against the status quo

 

Also, after 2 years of information on the actualite I do believe that many that voted  for Brexit are now not so inclined

 

We also have a two year demographic shift 

 

Finally, migrants from the E6 are running for the exits 

 

I could go on

 

And on

 

(are you in Thailand?)

There is a problem with your two main arguments, i.e.

 

1. I do believe that more than 50% of the UK electorate are not in favour of Brexit. Yes, many were not sufficiently motivated to be bothered to vote against the status quo

 

2. Also, after 2 years of information on the actualite I do believe that many that voted  for Brexit are now not so inclined

 

Point 1 is simply based on your belief, which gives it no credibility (no offence).  And yes, many couldn't be bothered to vote against the status quo, i.e. vote Leave, so the margin for Leave should have been greater.

 

Point 2, again based on your belief.  One could also believe that many who voted Remain now want to leave, having seen the true colours of the Brussels bureaucrats, and since the EU made it clear just after the vote that further integration is planned (fiscal and military).

 

 

 

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

You might want to bacm that up with an exampleexample and explain how Brexit will do better. I would suggest that to be extremely unlikely.

As scientists against Brexit have eexplained by the bucket load - http://www.scientistsforeu.uk

(BTW  There is no science for Brexit site.)

Haha. This is their so-called factsheeet.

 

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/scientists4eu/pages/1016/attachments/original/1498229127/SfEU_factsheet_12-2-2016.pdf?1498229127

 

Not many facts in there are there? Not one hard mention of any EU environmental policy success. More worried about Brexit!

 

 

[aright]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not many facts in there are there? Not one hard mention of any EU environmental policy success. More worried about Brexit!

 

 

Let's not forget how German industry formulated their own environmental policy.

Remember the Volkswagen emissions scandal.

Edited April 6, 2018 by aright

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

We're saved then?

Anyone who thinks leaving the biggest single trade bloc on the planet and replacing it with piecemeal trade deals with minor economies dotted around the world is going to work needs their head examined.

What are you (and your ilk) hoping to achieve with all this negativity about the UK? It certainly doesn't strengthen our negotiating position with the EU.

Serious question.

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Not all Brexiteers are racists, but all RACISTS are Brexiteers, which box are you most comfortable with?

I find it rather disturbing that some Brexiteers don't realise that they are wholeheartedly aligning with the hard right.

Yes, such out and out racist as Kwai Kearteng M.P. Adam Afriyai M.P. Rehman Chishti M.P. Paritie Patel M.P.

 

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Not all Brexiteers are racists, but all RACISTS are Brexiteers, which box are you most comfortable with?

I find it rather disturbing that some Brexiteers don't realise that they are wholeheartedly aligning with the hard right.

Yes, such out and out racist as Kwai Kearteng M.P. Adam Afriyai M.P. Rehman Chishti M.P. Paritie Patel M.P.

 

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

What are you (and your ilk) hoping to achieve with all this negativity about the UK? It certainly doesn't strengthen our negotiating position with the EU.

Serious question.

The really serious question is, why does there have to be a negotiating position with the EU in the first place?

There has been no sensible answer put forward so far. The backstop answer is always the 'will of the people', but 'people' do not make legislation, there has only ever been 3 national referendums, the UK is a parliamentary democracy and constitutional issues should not be determined by referendum on a first past the post basis, it is not an election.

It appears to be conveniently forgotten that Mr Brexit said before the referendum that a 52/48 outcome would bring the result into question, so whether you or anyone else likes it or not the result will always be in question.

[CG1 Blue]

36 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The really serious question is, why does there have to be a negotiating position with the EU in the first place?

There has been no sensible answer put forward so far. The backstop answer is always the 'will of the people', but 'people' do not make legislation, there has only ever been 3 national referendums, the UK is a parliamentary democracy and constitutional issues should not be determined by referendum on a first past the post basis, it is not an election.

It appears to be conveniently forgotten that Mr Brexit said before the referendum that a 52/48 outcome would bring the result into question, so whether you or anyone else likes it or not the result will always be in question.

But we're leaving; Article 50 was triggered, and in march 2019 we enter the implementation period.

 

Both main political parties are committed to us leaving the EU. The only question that remains is around the terms of our departure and the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

 

So I ask again - what do you (and your ilk) hope to achieve by talking down the UK at this critical time?

Edited April 6, 2018 by CG1 Blue

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The EU is obsessed with reducing carbon emissions at any cost as they try to satisfy their own unachievable emissions targets. Inefficient and costly wind farms, which need at least a strong breeze to work at all, cannot supply a constant supply of power, so that existing power stations have to be kept on line anyway. Biofuels still emit carbon, use up vast tracts of good agricultural land, and so vastly reduce real food output capability.

 

The result of all this is much higher food and energy costs all round, with most costs passed directly passed on to the consumers (EU citizens).

 

EU waste management policies have farmers collecting sewage and industrial waste to be stored on farms until ploughing time stuffs it into arable fields...disgusting...all because of the idiotic EU landfill directive. The EU is financially and environmentally irresponsible but people just believe the propaganda.

 

I'd love to see your evidence that the EU regulations are improving the environment.

 

Tax Q no answer as expected. Thanks. 

1. The EU carbon emission targets are no unachievable. 

 

2. Windfarms are not directed as an EU policies, they are a means of harvesting renewable energy that is efficient. Most of the coal burning power stations have been taken out of service and are now replaced by small combined cycle gas turbine driven generation units, these are taken in and out of service as demand arises/falls. Britain's use of fossil fuels is falling in direct replacement by renewables (of which wind is a significant part).

 

3. Bio energy is not mandated by EU energy policies. Yes bio fuel uses energy to produce and it takes land out of food production use. But a) Bio fuel provides more energy than is used in its production b.) The UN Food and Agriculture Organisation estimates global food wastage at 13billion tons per year. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/02/no-time-leftovers-astonishing-scale-food-waste-uk-around-world/

 

4. My family background is farming. British farmers have been ploughing sewage into farmland for decades, if not for more than a century.

 

Here's some examples of the EU improving the environment:

 

*EU directives require Environmental Assessments for almost all development projects, housing, the signing of factories, industrial process, airports, roads etc. EU directives give 'concerned citizens' and 'concerned organisation' rights to be informed, consulted and a right to object to any development. EU directives place a duty on individual national governments to ensure the concerns of 'concerned citizens' and 'concerned organisations' are recorded and addressed. EU directives place a duty on individual governments to enshrine these rights in law and to provide 'concerned citizens' and 'concerned organisations' with a right to present their case before binding legal challenge in courts of law. 

These rights and duties are frequently used by local communities to protect their own environment.

 

*EU environmental directives place a duty on nation states within the union to conduct environmental impact analysis of projects within their own national boundary where the environmental impact may extend across their own national boundary. These directives place a duty on nation states to advise, consult, record and address concerns ... provide rights to legal challenges etc etc to any EU nation impacted by the project (in the same way as local communities are provided rights, nation states are provided rights), the EU commission and the EU courts arbitrate disputes where a project in an EU member nation impacts another EU member nation or any shared international spaces. 

These rights and duties are frequently used by EU nation states to protect their own environment (Hinkley B is an example of where this has been applied).

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

But we're leaving; Article 50 was triggered, and in march 2019 we enter the implementation period.

 

Both main political parties are committed to us leaving the EU. The only question that remains is around the terms of our departure and the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

 

So I ask again - what do you (and your ilk) hope to achieve by talking down the UK at this critical time?

I love it.

 

People who support the EU remaining in Europe are talking down the UK. 

 

Utter hogwash.

 

The UK government has back tracked on every single one of its own red lines, the UK is increasingly isolated, losing political clout in the world and on the edge of walking away from its major markets with absolutely no idea what to replace that market with.

 

And those of us who see the madness in Brexit are supposed to sit quiet because if we say anything we are 'talking the UK down'.

 

You need to pay more attention to the lies coming out of Davis, Rees-Mogg, Fox and Theresa May.

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I love it.

 

People who support the EU remaining in Europe are talking down the UK. 

 

Utter hogwash.

 

The UK government has back tracked on every single one of its own red lines, the UK is increasingly isolated, losing political clout in the world and on the edge of walking away from its major markets with absolutely no idea what to replace that market with.

 

And those of us who see the madness in Brexit are supposed to sit quiet because if we say anything we are 'talking the UK down'.

 

You need to pay more attention to the lies coming out of Davis, Rees-Mogg, Fox and Theresa May.

 

I prefer that to being controlled by the Germans and the Brussketeers...

[aright]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I love it.

 

People who support the EU remaining in Europe are talking down the UK. 

 

Utter hogwash.

 

The UK government has back tracked on every single one of its own red lines, the UK is increasingly isolated, losing political clout in the world and on the edge of walking away from its major markets with absolutely no idea what to replace that market with.

 

And those of us who see the madness in Brexit are supposed to sit quiet because if we say anything we are 'talking the UK down'.

 

You need to pay more attention to the lies coming out of Davis, Rees-Mogg, Fox and Theresa May.

 

[CG1 Blue]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I love it.

 

People who support the EU remaining in Europe are talking down the UK. 

 

Utter hogwash.

 

The UK government has back tracked on every single one of its own red lines, the UK is increasingly isolated, losing political clout in the world and on the edge of walking away from its major markets with absolutely no idea what to replace that market with.

 

And those of us who see the madness in Brexit are supposed to sit quiet because if we say anything we are 'talking the UK down'.

 

You need to pay more attention to the lies coming out of Davis, Rees-Mogg, Fox and Theresa May.

 

 

You're doing it again:

"the UK is increasingly isolated, losing political clout in the world and on the edge of walking away from its major markets with absolutely no idea what to replace that market with."

 

You're missing the point. We are leaving the EU.  We are not going to remain in the EU.  That ship has sailed.

The negative sentiment has to stop now, because you simply strengthen the EU's negotiating hand. Is that what you want?

 

 

[aright]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The negative sentiment has to stop now, because you simply strengthen the EU's negotiating hand. Is that what you want?

It's what many want, some not even living in the UK. Many have lost all respect for the UK as evidenced by some of the things said on here. Harming/shaming/embarrasing the UK is more important for some than getting the best deal. Sad

[Chomper Higgot]

37 minutes ago, transam said:

I prefer that to being controlled by the Germans and the Brussketeers...

 

As a member of the EU the UK participates in the promulgation of all EU laws and regulations. 

No EU law or regulation can be enacted in the UK without having been voted on and passed on in the UK's Parliament.

As a member of the EU the UK has an absolute sovereign veto on all EU law and regulations. 

 

The UK never gave up sovereignty when it joined the EU, though it is to be noted the Tory government has made multiple attempts to override the sovereignty of the UK parliament during the Brexit process and would have done so had not 'enemies of the people' forced the government into the high court and won their case that the UK Parliament holds the UK's sovereignty.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

It's what many want, some not even living in the UK. Many have lost all respect for the UK as evidenced by some of the things said on here. Harming/shaming/embarrasing the UK is more important for some than getting the best deal. Sad

When British ministers lie their teeth before the British Parliament and in negotiations with our international partners it is not the people who point out the lies that are betraying the country.

 

The government set a series of red lines they would not cross - the government have back tracked on every one of them. There, that's who's betraying the country, the idiot, lying government.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

It's what many want, some not even living in the UK. Many have lost all respect for the UK as evidenced by some of the things said on here. Harming/shaming/embarrasing the UK is more important for some than getting the best deal. Sad

We don't have a dog in this fight so who cares, let the poli's get on with it, it will be sorted one way or another, the sun will still rise in the morning, the chaos has been going on for so long now it has lost its entertainment value.

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

You're doing it again:

"the UK is increasingly isolated, losing political clout in the world and on the edge of walking away from its major markets with absolutely no idea what to replace that market with."

 

You're missing the point. We are leaving the EU.  We are not going to remain in the EU.  That ship has sailed.

The negative sentiment has to stop now, because you simply strengthen the EU's negotiating hand. Is that what you want?

 

 

You're doing it again, trying to convince your self the UK's democracy ended on the morning of the Brexit referendum result. 

 

It did not. 

 

Long live the British democracy, free speech, sovereignty of our parliament and the right of the nation to change its mind.

 

Oh... and we've not left yet.

[aright]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

As a member of the EU the UK participates in the promulgation of all EU laws and regulations. 

No EU law or regulation can be enacted in the UK without having been voted on and passed on in the UK's Parliament.

As a member of the EU the UK has an absolute sovereign veto on all EU law and regulations. 

 

 

You need to read more.      The UK has accepted the supremacy of EU law for some time

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-law-and-uk/

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, aright said:

You need to read more.      The UK has accepted the supremacy of EU law for some time

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-law-and-uk/

What don't you understand about 'No EU law or regulation can be enacted in the UK without having been voted on and passed on in the UK's Parliament.'?

 

[Grouse]

9 hours ago, Justfine said:

Educated people use common words. Never heard a CEO use that word.

 

Type of word a lower middle class person would use to try and impress people.

Dear me! Read more, improve your vocabulary. English is such a rich language full subtleties and shades. What's your favourite book? Personally I love John LeCarre just for the richness of his prose.

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You're doing it again, trying to convince your self the UK's democracy ended on the morning of the Brexit referendum result. 

 

It did not. 

 

Long live the British democracy, free speech, sovereignty of our parliament and the right of the nation to change its mind.

 

Oh... and we've not left yet.

except for hate speech and PC.