Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Right, car engines are a man's world! Ask Transam! But I'll make an exception for you girls?

 

No combustion engine works at maximum efficiency under all conditions. The settings need to be adjusted automatically according to demand and conditions. We used to use carburettors to adjust fuel supply according to the drivers' demands. Some actually pumped neat petrol into the intake to beef up acceleration! Then we would vary the spark timing (dynamic advance according to RPM) and vacuum advance according to throttle position.

 

These days, we use computers to measure dozens of input variables to set dozens of engine settings. Several times a second.

 

This is the main reason why we have much higher performance, much lower fuel consumption and far lower emissions (oxides of nitrogen being just one)

 

The computers use "look up tables" to determine the optimal settings for multiple conditions.

 

Of course we need increasingly stringent emissions regulations. But how to achieve this? I can tell you that a Diesel engine produces maximum emissions accelerating maximum load, up hill, when cold, between maximum torque rpm and maximum power rpm

 

So, what do we want to control? Maximum emissions? Emissions driving slowly in town? Idling? Average? Peak?

 

No, vehicle test regimes ARE inadequate and require much better design and enforcement. The fuel consumption figures for new cars are a farce. These are measured one up, no spare, no air con, nearly empty, on the flat. And you believe them!

 

At least test the vehicles! Just like "land of smiles" - trace the VIN number on the chassis and pay the money ?

 

No, give me engineering any day. Facile inspection criteria is for the birds; probably specified by one ?

 

You have been hoodwinked by the latest sales BS into buying

into the current environmental and economic narrative.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-used-cars-are-more-ecofriendly/

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, transam said:

That is pump jet operation...Most carbs have a pump jet and injected rides computers use  similar to sort flat spots, it works for a short period to stop hesitation. You implied shoving NEAT fuel in increases power, it doesn't unless it has the correct amount of oxygen to combine to a perfect ratio for combustion...What is N2O used for...?

You should read my posts carefully, I use very precise wording

 

Throttle pumps USED to be used to increase acceleration performance by pumping neat fuel into the intake plenum.

 

One stroke of the accelerator, one lot of additional fuel pumped in

 

Stoichiometric quantities of oxygen and fuel are indeed required, thats the whole point. But these quantise vary according to conditions and fuel composition.

 

We do it much better now using computers to adjust multiple parameters in real time. Look up Hall effect sensors, lambda sensors etc.,

 

Nitrogen oxides are combustion products depending on combustion conditions and fuel composition. No nitrogen oxides if you burn hydrogen!

 

But you miss the whole point of the discussion

 

I think the EU has done a good if imperfect job of driving down emissions.

 

In fact, modern engine CONTROL systems are amazingly good!

 

However, the performance inspection CRITERIA are poorly defined

 

It should be possible to define inspection criteria to measure emissions under real world conditions using rolling roads and computerised inputs to the engine.

 

Right now, the Micky Mouse tests specified allow the tests to be "cheated" by the car's computer. Or at least out-played.

 

Right now, the Diesel engines being criticised sensed no movement of the vehicle, no steering input. Just as when you are idling at the traffic lights. You think a button is pressed to say test station?

 

So, no, I don't think it's a German conspiracy. 

 

Siemens and Bosch beat Lucas to death with this years ago. I guess the Japanese and Koreans have their high tech control systems. America? Not if it added 1c to the sales price!

[billd766]

37 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It wouldn't be easier or better if everyone shouted, rah, rah, rah, the problems would still be the same,they aren't going away. I and I suspect you as well wont be affected personally either way but the following generation will be, my family, thank God, are all out of it and live in other countries.

 

As you say we will not be affected but my UK family and friends will.

 

Strangely enough they voted for Brexit too.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

 

As you say we will not be affected but my UK family and friends will.

 

Strangely enough they voted for Brexit too.

That's OK, they will have to live with the consequences,good or bad,we won't.

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Apportioning the rise in knife crime to a perceived glut of kippers is poor comment. I'm surprised, even with you. 

Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.

 

It used to be the case that such behaviour was at least frowned upon in the UK

 

I contend that such behaviour is being legitimised, down played, ignored, de-sensitised

 

I just think that's a bad thing.

 

I am old enough to remember when Teds would get a belting from their own fathers! Now they're the same. Uncouth.

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, transam said:

So what are you doing on this thread if you don't like the UK..We know you spent most of your life in Germany and perhaps your kids were brought up there, so they would never have any allegiance to the UK either...

All welcome on this thread. Please don't discourage anyone from voicing their opinion! God knows we have some barking Brits on here!

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

You have been hoodwinked by the latest sales BS into buying

into the current environmental and economic narrative.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-used-cars-are-more-ecofriendly/

Yes, I concur that the environmental impact of manufacturing a new vehicle is severe and probably exceed the environmental impact of emissions.

 

But that not what we are discussing. If you want to bring that in look at the high proportion of parts which are now recycleable. This has been driven by EU requirements

 

AS far as the published lists of fuel economy, have you not read what I have written? These figures are BS! You should see how manufacturers get their figures!! Meaningless in absolute term but maybe useful by comparison.

 

No, there is no denying that modern engines perform FAR better than older ones largely my control. That has been achieved by EU and other requirements.

 

 

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.

 

It used to be the case that such behaviour was at least frowned upon in the UK

 

I contend that such behaviour is being legitimised, down played, ignored, de-sensitised

 

I just think that's a bad thing.

 

I am old enough to remember when Teds would get a belting from their own fathers! Now they're the same. Uncouth.

It looks like the frowning now takes a different and less potent form. It must be partly due to lack of parental guidance (particularly paternal) but many of these lads may well not have their dads at home anymore. Traditional values have been lost or are ignored and not passed on. Respect for the law of the land is low.

 

Police are unable or unwilling to tackle armed assault and drug crimes. The police and everyone are too scared of this trendy politically incorrect labelling. At the moment very little stop and search etc. Yes, police numbers and budgets cut and this is obviously part of the problem. Politicians citing social media as a problem have a point but miss the crux of the issue, which seems to be gangs, drug use and sales of same.

 

This cretin of a mayor certainly does not help.   

[nauseus]

33 minutes ago, Grouse said:

All welcome on this thread. Please don't discourage anyone from voicing their opinion! God knows we have some barking Brits on here!

[talahtnut]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, I concur that the environmental impact of manufacturing a new vehicle is severe and probably exceed the environmental impact of emissions.

 

But that not what we are discussing. If you want to bring that in look at the high proportion of parts which are now recycleable. This has been driven by EU requirements

 

AS far as the published lists of fuel economy, have you not read what I have written? These figures are BS! You should see how manufacturers get their figures!! Meaningless in absolute term but maybe useful by comparison.

 

No, there is no denying that modern engines perform FAR better than older ones largely my control. That has been achieved by EU and other requirements.

 

 

Modern engines are developed from F1.  Nothing to do with the EU!

Recycling is buying an old car, something the EU does not encourage.

Indeed EU scrappage schemes are aimed at increasing new car sales,

pure wasteful consumerism.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Please don't leave. He is an abnormal nob and is upset.

You will know when you're being addressed nauseus because I will state your name, until then do be a good chap and bog off.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You will know when you're being addressed nauseus because I will state your name, until then do be a good chap and bog off.

My post was a plea to Aright. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, Simoh. 

[aright]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Please don't leave. He is an abnormal nob and is upset.

I should have made myself clear...I meant  leave for the time being while he was handing out gratuitous insults. I think, he thinks, they form part of a sensible argument. 

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, aright said:

I should have made myself clear...I meant  leave for the time being while he was handing out gratuitous insults. I think, he thinks, they form part of a sensible argument. 

Justifiable or warranted insults being just fine of course 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

I should have made myself clear...I meant  leave for the time being while he was handing out gratuitous insults. I think, he thinks, they form part of a sensible argument. 

I know. and... I know.   

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Justifiable or warranted insults being just fine of course 

In your case no , you have yet to produce a sensible argument. 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Justifiable or warranted insults being just fine of course 

And that's from some-one who's done a masterclass on it. ?

[talahtnut]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well that's true

 

The thing is, since the rise of UKIP, Brexit has given a certain legitimacy to lack of tolerance. That's a shame in my opinion.

So, can we deduce that the soaring violent crimes in Germany is also

the fault of Brexit?

You are acting like a dodgy salesman trying to sell faulty goods.

Never mind the quality, feel the width.

[Rally123]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Two thirds is democracy, disenfranchising almost half the population isn't

As soon as life begins we're taught that the first one past the post wins. In the referendum, the Brexiteers were first past the post. Just because a large number of people failed to vote you shout 'FOUL, THAT ISN'T DEMOCRACY'. Oh yes it is unless you make voting legally compulsive but that wouldn't be democracy because you were forced to vote.

 

Could you now please send me your address as I'd like to give you your ball back.

[soalbundy]

58 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

As soon as life begins we're taught that the first one past the post wins. In the referendum, the Brexiteers were first past the post. Just because a large number of people failed to vote you shout 'FOUL, THAT ISN'T DEMOCRACY'. Oh yes it is unless you make voting legally compulsive but that wouldn't be democracy because you were forced to vote.

 

Could you now please send me your address as I'd like to give you your ball back.

I disagree with first past the post, I agree with a representative system but that isn't in place in the UK so you are stuck with what you have got. It isn't about the people who didn't vote it's about those who did and 48% said remain, that is a large number of people whose wishes are ignored. 52% is also a large number but it isn't so large as to see it being fair that they are allowed to endanger the rest of the country. As I have said before there should have been a stipulation in place as to what constitutes a majority but it wasn't done so the country is now divided and it will remain divided, all appeals to the contrary will go unheard. I still think that given another 10 years the UK will be back in the EU.This chaos wont have been in vain I think, it will go some way to reforming those parts of the EU that are unpopular,other countries in the EU will take up the torch of reform,the UK will sit on the sideline. I don't think that even the most hardened Brexiter imagines that there will be a hard Brexit, all the signs are that it will be soft and the UK will still be paying and will still abide by at least some laws over which it will then have no control or say.

As soon as life began I was more into Winnie the Pooh. In dumbed down Britain there is,or was, a University course on Pooh bear,one could get a degree on the subject.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

That is true also, but the rule of that particular referendum was for a simple majority. They could have stated  a 2/3, a 70% or any other figures they wanted, but in David Cameron's arrogance they didn't.

 

The referendum was held and those who voted to leave won.

 

If more people could have been bothered to get off their arse and vote it could have been different, but it wasn't.

 

If only the Remainers could accept that simple fact and get behind the PM and the country, life would be better and easier in the UK.

Your first statement is spot on, but the fact that the architects of the Referendum Bill got it wrong does not mean the decision is right. In this so called democracy people have the right to challenge any decision, or is that in question. Any decision is only valid for as long as it stands.

Following the referendum TM made the decision to circumvent parliament, that decision did not stand for very long.

If people were not allowed to challenge decisions, Worboys would have been released. How wrong does something have to be before there is a need for it to be righted?

 

People only voted to leave the EU and parliament have respected that result in voting to invoke Art 50. Parliament have not voted on leaving the single market and customs union, so until they do everyone has the right to campaign for these ties to the EU. It is pure speculation what a vote to leave the EU actually meant and it is up to parliament to make the final decision.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, aright said:

I should have made myself clear...I meant  leave for the time being while he was handing out gratuitous insults. I think, he thinks, they form part of a sensible argument. 

You wouldn't recognise a sensible argument if it hit you in the goolies and Grouse alone has made tens if not hundreds of them. Your strategy as a "team" is to divert, reverse every question without ever answering one, emoticon clicks and posting cartoons....oh, and calling mommy when things get out of hand, pathetic.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

My post was a plea to Aright. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, Simoh. 

It's grown-ups time nauaseaus, when we're done we'll call you.

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

It's grown-ups time nauaseaus, when we're done we'll call you.

Well don't rush and enjoy the bouncy castle! 

[aright]

 

15 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You wouldn't recognise a sensible argument if it hit you in the goolies and Grouse alone has made tens if not hundreds of them. Your strategy as a "team" is to divert, reverse every question without ever answering one, emoticon clicks and posting cartoons....oh, and calling mommy when things get out of hand, pathetic.

Oh dear! We have a tantrum on our hands.

[Khun Han]

17 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You wouldn't recognise a sensible argument if it hit you in the goolies and Grouse alone has made tens if not hundreds of them. Your strategy as a "team" is to divert, reverse every question without ever answering one, emoticon clicks and posting cartoons....oh, and calling mommy when things get out of hand, pathetic.

 

As opposed to not having sensible arguments, and resorting to bullying, insults and prevarication when said hollow arguments are exposed.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Khun Han

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

 

Oh dear! We have a tantrum on our hands.

Watch out for flying teddies and pacifiers! 

[malagateddy]

Just wondering..is simoh1490 British?

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Just wondering..is simoh1490 British?

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Are you Spanish? 

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Are you Spanish? 

Si senor.Me encanta tortillas