Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Kieran00001]

38 minutes ago, aright said:

Rubber stamping someone else's decision is neither selection nor democratic.

" Most Europeans did not vote in the European Parliament elections. Turnout declined in the majority of member states. Nowhere was Mr Juncker on the ballot paper. Even in Germany, where the concept of Spitzenkandidaten got the most airtime, only 15% of voters even knew he was a candidate. He did not visit some member states. Those who voted did so to choose their MEP not the Commission president. Mr Juncker did not stand anywhere and was not elected by anyone."

 

What you fail to grasp is the very concept of an impartial council serving the EU parliament.  If the selection method was to be replaced with another public election then there would be no point in it existing, it may as well just go to the winning party in parliament, but that is all that is wrong with most systems, they go from biased cabinet to biased cabinet, undoing each others good work at every election.  The EU is different, they have a non-partisan house, the council, that must by law remain impartial while serving the various partial representatives in the parliament.  So you see, it is actually important that they are not elected.

[CG1 Blue]

More evidence that the EU is a failing model. Even staunch remainer Philip Hammond is having a go here. This is from the Telegraph and relates to Russia sanctions:

 

'Mr Hammond told the Treasury select committee: “While we are still EU members we don't have, with some very narrow exceptions, an independent sanctioning capability.

“We are discussing with EU partners the measures the US and others have taken. It is probably fair to say there are varying degrees of appetite within the EU for further pressure on this group of individuals.

“One of the challenges of working within the EU is that in these areas – foreign policy – one is required to build a consensus of 28, which means, frankly, operating at the lowest common denominator quite often.”'

 

 

[simoh1490]

I don't know about the EU being a failing economic model but I do know the UK's not looking too bright currently, the worst quarterly performance in 6 years and no, it wasn't down to the beast from the east, 0.1%: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/27/pound-slips-six-week-low-markets-brace-growth-slowdown-uk-us/

[sandyf]

On 4/20/2018 at 4:16 PM, sandyf said:

And the Prime Minister then endorsed the EU commissioner. So if as you say,

"I use my vote regularly in the UK to vote for officials from the Prime Minister down to local community representatives.", you are also including the EU commissioner among those officials you used your vote for.

Reposted for those that appear to have a problem with the English language. Maybe someone can point out where in this or any other post, I have ever referred to Selmayr  or Juncker.

 

If you want to claim to have voted for the Prime Minister then you must accept what that entails.

[sandyf]

On 4/25/2018 at 2:16 AM, nontabury said:

So everything must be sacrificed for the financial services, I don’t think so.

As I’m sure you’ll agree Sandy, the UK now manufactured very little. An example, you used to live not far from Mexbrough, in Sth Yorks, a town which until about 25 yrs ago had a Hotpoint factory employing hundreds of your fellow British citizens. Unfortunately that factory has now closed.

 Forward to last Saturday, I went to the local Currys store to purchase a washer/ dryer. To discover, Unfortunately that all these machines from all the different manufactures are now manufactured on the continent. This is after the British funded E.U. gave incentives to these manufacture to reallocate to the east.

 If this was’t bad enough, this also applied to many different industries. 

So what would happen, if the UK were to Brexit without an agreement. Presumable we would revert to W.T.O trading, would this not be a good thing?

well it certainly could be for the thousands of British workers who would hopefully start to be employed in U.K factories, as it would then be more profitable for these industries to manufacture in the U.K with a population of 67-75 million customers.

My comment was in response to this "The overarching point here is that bankers are massively in favour of the EU,"

Feel free to take it out of context, par for the course.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know about the EU being a failing economic model but I do know the UK's not looking too bright currently, the worst quarterly performance in 6 years and no, it wasn't down to the beast from the east, 0.1%: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/27/pound-slips-six-week-low-markets-brace-growth-slowdown-uk-us/

I said "failing model", not failing economic model. Although the EU also has a seriously flawed economic model, which will play out over the next decade or so (if the EU survives that long).

 

Not great news on the UK GDP, I agree. All the negativity from the prominent remainers is certainly affecting consumer confidence.

 

The ONS is biased however.  And you can see some contradictory reporting on the BBC website:

 

The ONS says: "While the snow had some impact on the economy, particularly in construction and some areas of retail, its overall effect was limited with the bad weather actually boosting energy supply and online sales."

 

And then a bit further down the article states: Construction was the biggest drag on GDP, falling 3.3% over the first three months of the year, while manufacturing growth slowed to 0.2%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43919094

 

And then another BBC article explains that the construction slump WAS due to the weather:

 

House building slumps as Beast from the East hits economy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43914834

 

So basically the GDP slump was caused by the weather and Remainers.

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I said "failing model", not failing economic model. Although the EU also has a seriously flawed economic model, which will play out over the next decade or so (if the EU survives that long).

 

Not great news on the UK GDP, I agree. All the negativity from the prominent remainers is certainly affecting consumer confidence.

 

The ONS is biased however.  And you can see some contradictory reporting on the BBC website:

 

The ONS says: "While the snow had some impact on the economy, particularly in construction and some areas of retail, its overall effect was limited with the bad weather actually boosting energy supply and online sales."

 

And then a bit further down the article states: Construction was the biggest drag on GDP, falling 3.3% over the first three months of the year, while manufacturing growth slowed to 0.2%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43919094

 

And then another BBC article explains that the construction slump WAS due to the weather:

 

House building slumps as Beast from the East hits economy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43914834

 

So basically the GDP slump was caused by the weather and Remainers.

 

 

 

Remainers working with God and Mother Nature to engineer outcomes, plausible in the mind of a Brexiteer I suppose - I knew that people taking acid last century would have repercussions.

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Remainers working with God and Mother Nature to engineer outcomes, plausible in the mind of a Brexiteer I suppose - I knew that people taking acid last century would have repercussions.

Come on...I didn't say they were working together. But you never know - those Remainers know a lot of people in high places...

[simoh1490]

19 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Come on...I didn't say they were working together. But you never know - those Remainers know a lot of people in high places...

 

"those Remainers know a lot of people in high places..." - Psylocybin too, gawd, what a manic youth you must have led.

 

More seriously: the UK economy is tanking and now we're heading for Brexit and throwing our long-standing trading relationship with our closest and largest trading partners, into doubt, how sensible is that

Edited April 27, 2018 by simoh1490

[billd766]

5 hours ago, tebee said:

 

If they wanted the referendum to be binding they should have made it a binding referendum !

As it was only advisory, I see nothing wrong with opposing it's outcome.

 

The government seem to think it was binding. The previous PM David Cameron stated that he would accept the result and act on it, Theresa May started article 50 to leave.

 

Nobody objects to ypu opposing it but the fact is that the UK WILL leave the EU.

 

You of course, like me, have the right at the next election to vote the Tories out, but who would you want to replace them?

 

Labour under Jeremy Corbyn and the unions, Lib Dems under Vince Cable or something else?

 

5 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The Leavers should have Farages words repeated to them at every opportunity,  “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

 

 

Did you write to your MP before the referendum and complain that it was wrong. If you didn't there is nothing you nor I can do about it now.

[lungbing]

When those self-same 'partners' sell us far much more than they can be bothered to buy from us.

[Orac]

When those self-same 'partners' sell us far much more than they can be bothered to buy from us.

But there are many more of them than us and thus they split those loses which we cannot.

It reminds me a bit of a mate of mine who invited me out for drinks with his family where I bought the first round for six people then, after he got the second, claimed it was my round again.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

38 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

But there are many more of them than us and thus they split those loses which we cannot.

It reminds me a bit of a mate of mine who invited me out for drinks with his family where I bought the first round for six people then, after he got the second, claimed it was my round again.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

The members of your mates family appear to be acting like some members of the EU, they don't want to put anything into the pot, but they want something out for nothing. 

[soalbundy]

46 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

But there are many more of them than us and thus they split those loses which we cannot.

It reminds me a bit of a mate of mine who invited me out for drinks with his family where I bought the first round for six people then, after he got the second, claimed it was my round again.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Buying in rounds seems to be a rather stupid British custom, it forces you to drink more than you would want to, I have noticed that expats in many European countries stop doing this in line with the members of their new country, I have never indulged in this 'custom' 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

.....

 

 

Did you write to your MP before the referendum and complain that it was wrong. If you didn't there is nothing you nor I can do about it now.

No, I foolishly assumed that an advisory referendum would be considered advisory and we would have further discussions about what to do and the way to do it. Insted we got tablets carved in stone, but no agreement what the writing on them means, and we charge in head first without even stopping to think what we want.

 

Had I foreseen that happened I might complained to my MP,  but sadly I don't think their were enough of us who were sufficiently psychic.  

 

Anyway I was excluded from voting this time

[billd766]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

No, I foolishly assumed that an advisory referendum would be considered advisory and we would have further discussions about what to do and the way to do it. Insted we got tablets carved in stone, but no agreement what the writing on them means, and we charge in head first without even stopping to think what we want.

 

Had I foreseen that happened I might complained to my MP,  but sadly I don't think their were enough of us who were sufficiently psychic.  

 

Anyway I was excluded from voting this time

 

But David Cameron before the referendum stated quite clearly that he would accept the result and action it whichever way it went.

 

Perhaps he and his government of the day screwed up, that I don't know, but he did stand by his words and then quit.

 

I was not excluded from voting and as such I DID vote for Brexit.

 

I did make sure that I was elegible to vote as I was in 2016, 2017 and 2018.

 

I felt that concerned that I had to make my voice known at the referendum.

 

I voted for my son and grandchildrens future outside of the EU.

[CG1 Blue]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

No, I foolishly assumed that an advisory referendum would be considered advisory and we would have further discussions about what to do and the way to do it. Insted we got tablets carved in stone, but no agreement what the writing on them means, and we charge in head first without even stopping to think what we want.

 

Had I foreseen that happened I might complained to my MP,  but sadly I don't think their were enough of us who were sufficiently psychic.  

 

Anyway I was excluded from voting this time

Why on Earth did you assume the referendum would be advisory only?  That would suggest a shocking lack of engagement at the time!  

 

And then you probably accuse Brexiteers of not knowing what they voted for!

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why on Earth did you assume the referendum would be advisory only?  That would suggest a shocking lack of engagement at the time!  

 

And then you probably accuse Brexiteers of not knowing what they voted for!

It was stated in parliament that it  an advisory referendum and not legally binding 

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why on Earth did you assume the referendum would be advisory only?  That would suggest a shocking lack of engagement at the time!  

 

And then you probably accuse Brexiteers of not knowing what they voted for!

 

At least the Brexiteers voted.

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

It was stated in parliament that it  an advisory referendum and not legally binding 

 

It was also stated by the PM at the time that he would accept the result of the referendum and act upon it.

Edited April 27, 2018 by billd766
edit for bad spelling after I had posted

[tebee]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Referendum_Act_2015

The European Union Referendum Act 2015 (c. 36) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that made legal provision for a non-binding referendum to be held in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, on whether it should remain a member state of the European Union or leave it

[tebee]

I would have like to have voted, but they messed up their records and said I'm been out of the country for more than 15 years so I couldn't. I pointed out I was still on the roll in 2003 so I should have got a vote, but by then it was too late.

 

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

At least the Brexiteers voted.

 

It was also stated by the PM at the time that he would accept the result of the referendum and act upon it.

So who do you believe? Parliament and the law that said it was advisory or one politician  on television?

 

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

It was stated in parliament that it  an advisory referendum and not legally binding 

 

[tebee]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43925282

[CG1 Blue]

57 minutes ago, tebee said:

It was stated in parliament that it  an advisory referendum and not legally binding 

So why would Cameron and Osborne have been preaching to us about the catastrophic effects of a Leave vote in the build up to the referendum?

Why did 34 million people turn out to vote if it was just some glorified opinion poll?

 

Sorry, I just don't believe you thought it was non-binding. If you did you were alone!

 

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Orac said:

 

But there are many more of them than us and thus they split those loses which we cannot.

It reminds me a bit of a mate of mine who invited me out for drinks with his family where I bought the first round for six people then, after he got the second, claimed it was my round again.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Wrong. If there was balanced trade then no individual EU member state would have such a high trade deficit.

 

Source: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Intra-EU_trade_in_goods_balance_by_Member_State,_2016_(EUR_billion).png

 

This highlights why we should be able to leave with a reasonable trade agreement. We buy so much stuff!

 

Several other interesting stats and charts if you browse around this site.

 

[Fish Head Soup]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

I would have like to have voted, but they messed up their records and said I'm been out of the country for more than 15 years so I couldn't. I pointed out I was still on the roll in 2003 so I should have got a vote, but by then it was too late.

 

Don't worry, unless you had another 1,269,501 votes then it wouldn't have made any difference.

[tebee]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

The government seem to think it was binding. The previous PM David Cameron stated that he would accept the result and act on it, Theresa May started article 50 to leave.

 

Nobody objects to ypu opposing it but the fact is that the UK WILL leave the EU.

 

....

Don't be so sure - we still have a load of incompetents in charge who don't know what they want yet....

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/brexit-failure-looks-more-likely-every-day

[billd766]

13 hours ago, tebee said:

So who do you believe? Parliament and the law that said it was advisory or one politician  on television?

 

 

It doesn't really matter what I believe as Brexit is going ahead anyway despite the Remainers efforts and has been for quite a while.

 

 

13 hours ago, tebee said:

I would have like to have voted, but they messed up their records and said I'm been out of the country for more than 15 years so I couldn't. I pointed out I was still on the roll in 2003 so I should have got a vote, but by then it was too late.

 

 

I have little sympathy for you. You were too late for the referendum but are you on the electoral roll now?

 

You should have applied earlier to the electoral office that you last voted in.

 

I did and have named my close friend as my proxy voter. Taunton Deane council send me a reminder every January to renew.

[Kieran00001]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

It doesn't really matter what I believe as Brexit is going ahead anyway despite the Remainers efforts and has been for quite a while.

 

What is going ahead is the exit process, not Brexit itself.  In order to complete the exit process all the replacement treaties need to be ratified by the EU, we need them to agree to the terms and they don't want us to leave, they are not going to make it easy, that is very clear and as things stand can you see that that is actually a little unlikely that we are going to come to terms in time?