16 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I see. When you believed "food stamp grabbers" were against Brexit you thought it reflected badly on them. . Not that I've shown that it's the opposite that is the case, you're saying it doesn't matter. Does the phrase "hoist with his own petard" mean anything to you?.. 

Non of that Gobbledegook means anything to the Voters who won the Vote. Man up, You Lost.It will affect your Seeking Work Mob who claim handouts whilst on holiday, they actually boast about it when in Spain.

11 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Non of that Gobbledegook means anything to the Voters who won the Vote. Man up, You Lost.It will affect your Seeking Work Mob who claim handouts whilst on holiday, they actually boast about it when in Spain.

Maybe if my own argument had been successfully turned against me, I'd be trolling just like you. But I like to think not.

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Maybe if my own argument had been successfully turned against me, I'd be trolling just like you. But I like to think not.

I have no argument, neither have you. Your Tribe has Spoken to Leave.

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

If you mean confirmation of what you claimed, sorry, not in the cards?

http://www.money-go-round.eu/Country.aspx?id=FR

Why do you tell falsehoods here? Do you think you won't get found out?

What is false here is your 11 billion quote for French net contributions in your merry-go-round garbage website.

 

The French net contribution has always been less due to their enormous rebate via the CAP. Funny you should choose 2016 - the year of the UK referendum and the French net bung actually went up a bit - quelle surprise!!

 

Below are average net contributions from the EU's own website for 2011-2015 (guidance: the little crosses are the important (net) references). Another coincidence is that same graphing option (net contribution) is now no longer available from the same EU site. Astonishing!!  

 

Further below is Bloomberg net chart for 2014-2016.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Food stamp grabbers? Really?

The areas and demographics where the Brexit vote was won

The decision for the UK to leave the European Union was overwhelmingly supported in parts of England with low income and education levels.

Average educational attainment, median income and social class in English local authorities were the strongest predictors of how residents in that area voted in the referendum. The results indicate that the greater the proportion of residents with a higher education, the more likely a local authority was to vote remain.

Wandsworth, Richmond upon Thames, and Cambridge, where around half of the population has a higher education qualification, all gave over two-thirds of their votes to remain.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jun/24/the-areas-and-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

You prefer to rely on low educational standards - whereas I think low (and falling) incomes was far more of a factor.

 

Add in those on poor incomes seeing ever increasing numbers of poor eu immigrants living on their doorstep and working for minimum wage or lower...

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What is false here is your 11 billion quote for French net contributions in your merry-go-round garbage website.

 

The French net contribution has always been less due to their enormous rebate via the CAP. Funny you should choose 2016 - the year of the UK referendum and the French net bung actually went up a bit - quelle surprise!!

 

Below are average net contributions from the EU's own website for 2011-2015 (guidance: the little crosses are the important (net) references). Another coincidence is that same graphing option (net contribution) is now no longer available from the same EU site. Astonishing!!  

 

Further below is Bloomberg net chart for 2014-2016.

 

 

 

The french played the CAP perfectly - to protect their farmers, large and small.

 

The brit. govts. had no compunction in losing most small brit. farmers to wealthy,  big business....

 

Edit - And of course... the consumer paid through the nose either way....

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The french played the CAP perfectly - to protect their farmers, large and small.

 

The brit. govts. had no compunction in losing most small brit. farmers to wealthy,  big business....

I was under the impression (read it somewhere) that British farms in general were large and efficiently run as opposed to the French.

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I was under the impression (read it somewhere) that British farms in general were large and efficiently run as opposed to the French.

I understand the French are very good at Ostrich farming.

3 minutes ago, aright said:

I understand the French are very good at Ostrich farming.

Yes, their boiled eggs are famous, breakfast for a week on one egg.

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The french played the CAP perfectly - to protect their farmers, large and small.

 

The brit. govts. had no compunction in losing most small brit. farmers to wealthy,  big business....

 

Edit - And of course... the consumer paid through the nose either way....

 

Do you realize that France has 1.6 times as much farm land as the UK?  Isnt that roughly the same disparity between France and the UK's CAP allowance?  Before making assumptions it would be a lot clearer if we could see the difference in terms of per hectare rather than per country.

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, their boiled eggs are famous, breakfast for a week on one egg.

Is it true  they taste better if eaten in the dark?

On 4/29/2018 at 5:17 AM, Chelseafan said:

I import and export to the EU and whist I really have no idea what is going to happen I'm optimistic that the current rules and regs will remain. In principal there shouldn't be any need to change as the infrastructure to trade with the EU is already in place.

 

I take it that you are optimistic about remaining in the customs union and we can only hope that you are right, after all TM is no stranger to U turns.

Outside a customs union there will be changes. Your export and import invoices will change from statistical recording to tax collection documents. Once revenue comes into play it is a whole new ball game, errors in the export stats do not carry the same weight as errors in tax collection.

The EU has been highly critical of customs procedures in the UK so that there is very high probability that Certificates of Origin will be reinstated. That would be an EU decision and if implemented would also apply to goods crossing the Irish border.

 

I am assuming from your comment that you do not export any goods that are subject to a CE mark. Other exporters are not in the same fortunate position and it has already been stated that all goods certified by a UK notified body must be recertified before they can be sold into the EU after March 2019. Anyone reselling goods from outside the EU that have been certified in the UK could very well lose their business, the foreign companies concerned may well turn to an EU agent to get new certificates for the products.

For a time I worked for a gas appliance company and was responsible for CE certification and the process is not easy or cheap.

46 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What is false here is your 11 billion quote for French net contributions in your merry-go-round garbage website.

 

The French net contribution has always been less due to their enormous rebate via the CAP. Funny you should choose 2016 - the year of the UK referendum and the French net bung actually went up a bit - quelle surprise!!

 

Below are average net contributions from the EU's own website for 2011-2015 (guidance: the little crosses are the important (net) references). Another coincidence is that same graphing option (net contribution) is now no longer available from the same EU site. Astonishing!!  

 

Further below is Bloomberg net chart for 2014-2016.

 

 

 

I chose 2016 because it was the latest year I could find.

So you're claiming that CAP is not included in these charts?

Which actually doesn't matter. Because according to what I could find from a BBC article from 2013, France was expected to start being a net contributor to CAP

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11216061

And sure enough in 2014 France was a net contributor to CAP

http://capreform.eu/gainers-and-losers-from-the-cap-budget/

I haven't been able to find any data for later periods. At least nothing that I have the time to plow through.

 

On 29/4/2561 at 4:31 AM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

PM Cameron actually carried out his manifesto pledge of an EU referendum. He was a remain advocate.

He expected to win even after the dismal failure of his "renegotiation" campaign.

It was declared it was a "one time decision" with no 2nd referendum as has been the case in other countries.

In or out has been decided. The decision was OUT.

Immigration will be back in the hands of the UK.

Why are so many in denial of a democratic vote?

Do they believe in democracy or not?

 

 

Why are so many in denial of a democratic vote?

Do they believe in democracy or not?

 

Of course they do. but only if their side wins.

22 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, their boiled eggs are famous, breakfast for a week on one egg.

There used to be an Ostrich farm near where I grew up, Remember having an "ostrich burger" at an open day one time. Very good , could have been fillet steak but twice the price. There was quite a few farms started up in Scotland around the millenium but bureaucracy over slaughter and the sale of the meat in restaurants killed them off, not sure if any left.

21 hours ago, bristolboy said:

I think they're prepared to see the UK go. But they are determned not to let the UK enjoy the privileges of membership whilst escaping the obligations.

I don’t think so. When you read the comments by the Brussels Bureaucrats, they ALL mention that they want us to stay,just the same as the likes of Gina Miller, and the majority of the unelected H.O.L’s, and of course the remoaners, here on T.V.

  When we do depart this shambolic Union, then understandably they will not want us to gain any advantages,”if any” from the E.U.  They will also try to create any obstacles, in the hope it will dissuade any other countries from departing.

 What amazes me, is how any independent thinking person can even think it’s in the interest of the British people to remain in this so called Union,with all the restrictions it imposes on the individual countries ( soon to be regions) far better to make our own rules and regulations, while staying friends with our fellow Europeans,if not with the unelected Bureaucrats, looking to expand our trade with the wider and increasingly more important developing countries in addition to those prosperous countries who are not in this union. After all that’s what we voted for in 1975, a greater trading block.

 

 

 

 

53 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I chose 2016 because it was the latest year I could find.

So you're claiming that CAP is not included in these charts?

Which actually doesn't matter. Because according to what I could find from a BBC article from 2013, France was expected to start being a net contributor to CAP

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11216061

And sure enough in 2014 France was a net contributor to CAP

http://capreform.eu/gainers-and-losers-from-the-cap-budget/

I haven't been able to find any data for later periods. At least nothing that I have the time to plow through.

 

No it doesn't matter and I don't have time either.

 

The EU's own data says that the UK has been the second highest net contributor to the EU. That's it.

 

Take a look at this and see how well France does out of the CAP:

 

 

Source:

https://epthinktank.eu/2016/07/20/how-the-eu-budget-is-spent-common-agricultural-policy/eu-support-for-rural-development/

5 hours ago, tebee said:

So we are not going to get a deal unless we sort out the Irish border.

" if there is no settlement of the Irish question, there will be no withdrawal agreement and if there is no withdrawal agreement, there will be no transmission period."

So what is the chances of us being able to do this ?

 

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86851

 

The EU are using the Irish border issue as a stick to beat us with. The EU bureaucrats have no genuine feelings about the sensitivities around this issue, and don't really give a toss about the border.

Love her or hate her, Arlene Foster has a point when she says Barnier pretends to understand the issues, but is "not an honest broker".

The border issue can be solved by the UK/NI working with the Republic.  The UK has some of the brightest technology specialists in the world.  A mix of technology and cooperation will solve it. But not if the EU bureaucrats keep meddling.

 

If only our inept government would just get on with it and put this to bed so the EU can't continue to use the border as a bargaining chip. It makes me wonder if May is purposely allowing this to continue, to excuse a 'soft' Brexit.

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

You prefer to rely on low educational standards - whereas I think low (and falling) incomes was far more of a factor.

 

Add in those on poor incomes seeing ever increasing numbers of poor eu immigrants living on their doorstep and working for minimum wage or lower...

Correct, however many of the remoaners are selfish people, this does’t affect their life style, especially those who may consider working on the continent, sometime in the future. They are prepared to sacrifice everything, their country, their fellow citizens the future of the next generation, just in case THEY want to work in the E.U.  Then of course we have those remainers,who lack the intelligence to think out out of the box, having been brain washed by the establishment over the last 20yrs.

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I was under the impression (read it somewhere) that British farms in general were large and efficiently run as opposed to the French.

Many are owed by large foreign firms. Same as many British industries. Sell the Crown Jewels now, then we can live in luxury for a few years. And then?

Typical British thinking, short time.

 

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Food stamp grabbers? Really?

The areas and demographics where the Brexit vote was won

The decision for the UK to leave the European Union was overwhelmingly supported in parts of England with low income and education levels.

Average educational attainment, median income and social class in English local authorities were the strongest predictors of how residents in that area voted in the referendum. The results indicate that the greater the proportion of residents with a higher education, the more likely a local authority was to vote remain.

Wandsworth, Richmond upon Thames, and Cambridge, where around half of the population has a higher education qualification, all gave over two-thirds of their votes to remain.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jun/24/the-areas-and-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

I haven't read the link (my drivel software filter does not allow me to access the Guardian) but from what you have written, this must be an appallingly pretentious article, class discrimination of the highest order.

 

It obviously implies, or states, from what you have said, that well educated people voted to remain and that anyone voting to leave was of  “low income and education levels’ ….. and without any sense of irony, you have underlined it and written it in red, how crass.

 

However, I was not aware that the electoral register, contained details of everybody's average educational attainment, median income and social class. I must update my details immediately, they only have my name, address, national insurance number and DOB. These details would of course be necessary as well as knowing exactly how each individual voted in the referendum to establish any verifiable demographic as to the education, income and social class of any voter.

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No it doesn't matter and I don't have time either.

 

The EU's own data says that the UK has been the second highest net contributor to the EU. That's it.

 

Take a look at this and see how well France does out of the CAP:

 

 

Source:

https://epthinktank.eu/2016/07/20/how-the-eu-budget-is-spent-common-agricultural-policy/eu-support-for-rural-development/

If the purple columns on this chart signify CAP revenue received from the EU and the columns means revenue paid, then. assuming that the UK is in the red, then France also must be in the red. If both columns refer to revenues received from CAP, then without a list of how much each member pays into CAP, then this chart proves exactly nothing. Either way, you've done nothing to back up your previous contention which was:

"Except the French recover nearly all theirs as due to the Uncommon Agricultural Policy divvy."

 

Yes, the UK is number 2 in terms of total contribution. But by that reckoning, France is #3.

And of course, that particular statistic does not take into account population, does it?

If you go by per capita contribution, the burden on each citizen, then from 2010 to 2015 the UK drops to 9th place.

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2016/50/netherlands-largest-net-contributor-eu-this-century

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Why are so many in denial of a democratic vote?

Do they believe in democracy or not?

 

Of course they do. but only if their side wins.

There seems to be Dark Forces in the UK. eg Diane Abbot is a mystery to normal folk all over Europe. US,UK, and allied forces  freed Europe from  German Morons yet you now let them take the piss and evade reason yet again,.Imagine the remoaners playing Survivor Series UK.  "' I dont care what they said im not leaving'". Simple as that.!!.

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

There used to be an Ostrich farm near where I grew up, Remember having an "ostrich burger" at an open day one time. Very good , could have been fillet steak but twice the price. There was quite a few farms started up in Scotland around the millenium but bureaucracy over slaughter and the sale of the meat in restaurants killed them off, not sure if any left.

They only let them have the run o' the glens aroond midnight. Used for extra haggis filling on maturity.

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

If the purple columns on this chart signify CAP revenue received from the EU and the columns means revenue paid, then. assuming that the UK is in the red, then France also must be in the red. If both columns refer to revenues received from CAP, then without a list of how much each member pays into CAP, then this chart proves exactly nothing. Either way, you've done nothing to back up your previous contention which was:

"Except the French recover nearly all theirs as due to the Uncommon Agricultural Policy divvy."

 

Yes, the UK is number 2 in terms of total contribution. But by that reckoning, France is #3.

And of course, that particular statistic does not take into account population, does it?

If you go by per capita contribution, the burden on each citizen, then from 2010 to 2015 the UK drops to 9th place.

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2016/50/netherlands-largest-net-contributor-eu-this-century

I have backed up my first post entirely. The charts show net contribution and the massive CAP allocations to favoured nations. You are wasting my time again.  

 

Go to the webpage https://epthinktank.eu/2016/07/20/how-the-eu-budget-is-spent-common-agricultural-policy/eu-support-for-rural-development/ and read it properly. It says How The EU Budget Is Spent.

 

The first two charts I showed indicated EU net contribution by nation. Pop is not counted, which makes it worse as France has more pop! The third chart concerns 'Rural Development', aka the CAP or the French farmers slush fund.

 

The Dutch actually pay most net per capita. They also have a very healthy trade surplus with the rest of the EU.

7 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Food stamp grabbers? Really?

The areas and demographics where the Brexit vote was won

The decision for the UK to leave the European Union was overwhelmingly supported in parts of England with low income and education levels.

Average educational attainment, median income and social class in English local authorities were the strongest predictors of how residents in that area voted in the referendum. The results indicate that the greater the proportion of residents with a higher education, the more likely a local authority was to vote remain.

Wandsworth, Richmond upon Thames, and Cambridge, where around half of the population has a higher education qualification, all gave over two-thirds of their votes to remain.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jun/24/the-areas-and-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

You're going to be in trouble now! The Brexiters hate it when you quote statistics particularly probabilities. Do not bring up standard deviations for goodness sake! 

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

What is false here is your 11 billion quote for French net contributions in your merry-go-round garbage website.

 

The French net contribution has always been less due to their enormous rebate via the CAP. Funny you should choose 2016 - the year of the UK referendum and the French net bung actually went up a bit - quelle surprise!!

 

Below are average net contributions from the EU's own website for 2011-2015 (guidance: the little crosses are the important (net) references). Another coincidence is that same graphing option (net contribution) is now no longer available from the same EU site. Astonishing!!  

 

Further below is Bloomberg net chart for 2014-2016.

 

 

 

If I may interject?

 

of course the loss of the British contribution would be unhelpful. However the total effect is small (rather than infinitesimal). It is no killer blow and easily absorbed by the larger economies. Certainly the core EU will take the hit easily rather than dilute their principles.

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

this shambolic Union,

I think the UK looks vastly more shambolic than the EU! Don't you? Regardless of stance, the UKs performance has been embarrassingly inept! Shambolic even.

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think the UK looks vastly more shambolic than the EU! Don't you? Regardless of stance, the UKs performance has been embarrassingly inept! Shambolic even.

Yeah, but at least it's our shambolic......

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

I don’t think so. When you read the comments by the Brussels Bureaucrats, they ALL mention that they want us to stay,just the same as the likes of Gina Miller, and the majority of the unelected H.O.L’s, and of course the remoaners, here on T.V.

  When we do depart this shambolic Union, then understandably they will not want us to gain any advantages,”if any” from the E.U.  They will also try to create any obstacles, in the hope it will dissuade any other countries from departing.

 What amazes me, is how any independent thinking person can even think it’s in the interest of the British people to remain in this so called Union,with all the restrictions it imposes on the individual countries ( soon to be regions) far better to make our own rules and regulations, while staying friends with our fellow Europeans,if not with the unelected Bureaucrats, looking to expand our trade with the wider and increasingly more important developing countries in addition to those prosperous countries who are not in this union. After all that’s what we voted for in 1975, a greater trading block.

 

 

 

 

Dreadful abuse of the English language.