Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

From your perspective why do MP's keep getting it so wrong then  as evidenced by them overwhelmingly endorsing Article 50.

At the moment it would appear the only people trying to change things from inside the tent are extreme right wing parties. What party do you belong to? 

Have to go ,I haven't finished my best man speech yet. 

Because many are balancing the wishes of many of constituents against what the actually believe. Look at the body language.

 

I don't belong to any party. I feel quite disenfranchised. I like Vince but the Lib Dems really screwed up over student fees

Edited May 19, 2018 by Grouse

[aright]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Because many are balancing the wishes of many of constituents against what the actually believe. Look at the body language.

Then they are doing the right thing aren't they. Their job description requires them to represent their constituents not their conscience .When you vote how can you determine a person's conscience? Apart from the significant attempts to change things inside the tent by extreme right wingers can you name me a middle of the road political party or movement advocating significant changes.? 

[tebee]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-tells-theresa-may-her-brexit-border-plan-isnt-enough-to-secure-a-deal-2018-5

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-tells-theresa-may-her-brexit-border-plan-isnt-enough-to-secure-a-deal-2018-5

You can post these stories to doomsday, the reasons are so obvious that even the most challenged individuals should be starting to get the message by now.

 

Nothing is good enough for the EU for the UK to secure a deal. The only deal that the EU is interested is in keeping the UK under the control of Brussels, the ECJ and to keep the ££££££'s flowing to Brussels.

 

 

[ivor bigun]

Gosh 671 pages on brexit and we are still leaving the EU. but i am sure the remainers will still be throwing their toys out of the pram for years to come

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

Gosh 671 pages on brexit and we are still leaving the EU. but i am sure the remainers will still be throwing their toys out of the pram for years to come

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

any idea when ?

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

any idea when ?

and how?

[malagateddy]

Probably a NO DEAL scenario???
Just wonder what all the brussels jobsworths would do??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, tebee said:

British politics is broken.  While I think that stopping Brexit will not itself fix these politics in the short-term, ploughing on with it will embed its current broken form as the new normal in the medium-to-long term. Continuing with it gives the simple message to current and future voters and politicians that lies win, and can be deployed with impunity, conventions are meaningless, the constitution is weak, opponents need not be respected, and that the interests of the country are secondary to political whim. 

 

It also  tells  that the vilification of judges, civil servants, diplomats, foreigners, and even swathes of the population is acceptable, and, worse, a winning political strategy. In short, it says that the con-artists won, will continue to win, and there’s nothing anybody can do about it. They’re in charge now.

 

So, yes, a new referendum  will create its own problems and reopen divisions, but it may at least put us in a position where we are able to start dealing with the UK’s problems, rather than embedding  them further. It also seems apparent now that whatever form of Brexit is chosen will not bring healing stability. An EEA-like Brexit will anger the Ultras, allow them to blame all ills on Brexit not being done ‘properly’, and bring constant calls to withdraw from the arrangement. A hard Brexit will ruin the Good Friday Agreement, and bring economic harm that will make poverty, inequality and exclusion even worse, and tackling it nigh on impossible. 

 

So  a new referendum  won’t be pretty, but the alternative is much worse still. 

What country constituent are you going to represent.

[ivor bigun]

any idea when ?

Who cares we are leaving

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[soalbundy]

36 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Probably a NO DEAL scenario???
Just wonder what all the brussels jobsworths would do??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Whitehall, lots of new laws and a customs debacle to sort out

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Who cares we are leaving

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It has been said so apparently, let us wait until the goose is cooked before we carve it up, in the end we may be dealing with a half cooked goose.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Then they are doing the right thing aren't they. Their job description requires them to represent their constituents not their conscience .When you vote how can you determine a person's conscience? Apart from the significant attempts to change things inside the tent by extreme right wingers can you name me a middle of the road political party or movement advocating significant changes.? 

Yet again, you are totally incorrect. That is NOThow representative democracy works. Please look it up if you don't believe me.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

Probably a NO DEAL scenario???
Just wonder what all the brussels jobsworths would do??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Nothing

 

But wait for the sucking noise as the Japanese and American manufacturers disappear into the EU together with most of The City.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Grouse

[aright]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yet again, you are totally incorrect. That is NOThow representative democracy works. Please look it up if you don't believe me.

I can give you two definitions 

 

This from https://www.parliament.uk/

The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents.

 

This from wiki

Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people.

 

I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link?

 

That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things?

 

Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. 

 

[darren1971]

Brexit will never happen anyway, so this thread is pointless.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, aright said:

The truth is more important than the facts...…….. Frank Lloyd Wright

Unfortunately truth is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

TM thought it was true that she could circumvent parliament, how did that pan out.

If MP's would stick to the facts then we would all be a lot better off.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Unfortunately truth is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

TM thought it was true that she could circumvent parliament, how did that pan out.

If MP's would stick to the facts then we would all be a lot better off.

Desperate times calls for deseprate measures, and TM has just appointed a terrorist supporter (and man of God, apparently) to the Lords specifically to circumvent parliament.

[soalbundy]

49 minutes ago, aright said:

I can give you two definitions 

 

This from https://www.parliament.uk/

The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents.

 

This from wiki

Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people.

 

I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link?

 

That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things?

 

Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. 

 

did you cry and wave a flag ?

[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, aright said:

I can give you two definitions 

 

This from https://www.parliament.uk/

The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents.

 

This from wiki

Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people.

 

I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link?

 

That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things?

 

Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. 

 

I am sir!

 

What a treat!

 

The trumpets!

 

The Rolls

 

The outfits

 

Many things wrong with the UK but we do this kind of thing better than anyone! By miles!

 

Sod the EU

 

Gimme another dringgg

[tebee]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

and how?

And if it does leave, will it really it leave ?

 

Or stay in the SM and CU anyway 

 

[tebee]

“Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST"

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

did you cry and wave a flag ?

I didn't have a flag

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I am sir!

 

What a treat!

 

The trumpets!

 

The Rolls

 

The outfits

 

Many things wrong with the UK but we do this kind of thing better than anyone! By miles!

 

Sod the EU

 

Gimme another dringgg

was there no punch up ?

[aright]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

did you cry and wave a flag ?

I didn't wave a flag I waved the flag  but I leave the crying to the Remainers who haven't got over the results of the referendum.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

I can give you two definitions 

 

This from https://www.parliament.uk/

The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents.

 

This from wiki

Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people.

 

I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link?

 

That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things?

 

Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. 

 

Here's one

 

https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-does-a-british-mp-actually-do-41045

 

and this is the famous one

 

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch13s7.html

Edited May 19, 2018 by Grouse

[aright]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

was there no punch up ?

I think Phil might have been tempted to throw a punch had the rest of the Clampetts been invited.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

I didn't wave a flag I waved the flag  but I leave the crying to the Remainers who haven't got over the results of the referendum.

The flag, the blue one with stars on right?

[aright]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The flag, the blue one with stars on right?

Why would I fly the Honduras flag?

 

[aright]

45 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Unfortunately truth is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

TM thought it was true that she could circumvent parliament, how did that pan out.

If MP's would stick to the facts then we would all be a lot better off.

No it's not, truth is an absolute value ; its like pregnancy, you are either pregnant or not pregnant you cant be a little bit pregnant. Facts are sometimes coloured by the personalities of the people presenting them. 

 

“There are no facts, only interpretations.” ……………..― Friedrich Nietzsche