Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is from the Spectator published in February

 

QUOTE

It was true that Churchill came up with a plan for the pound sterling to join a common currency, but it was with the US dollar.

 

‘Where do we stand?’ Churchill asked the Commons in 1952:

We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition ‘with’ but not ‘of’ — we are with them, but not of them.

 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/churchill-was-all-in-favour-of-a-united-europe-as-long-as-it-didnt-include-britain/

There is not much point trying to have a conversation with someone who thinks the Council of Europe is a part of the EU.

[Orac]

Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't, Neither you or I know for certain.
 
So why not put it to a vote in each EU Country and get a definitive answer ?
 
What is the EU scared of ? The numbers, according to polls are in the EU's favour, so strike while the iron is hot.

So, to be clear, should TM be forced into a GE in autumn which is being rumoured and not beyond the bounds of possibilities, you are advocating that the EU should be allowed to put a referendum question on the ballot paper?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't, Neither you or I know for certain.

 

So why not put it to a vote in each EU Country and get a definitive answer ?

 

What is the EU scared of ? The numbers, according to polls are in the EU's favour, so strike while the iron is hot.

If nobody is asking for it, why waste time, money and resources on undertaking such an exercise?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

So, to be clear, should TM be forced into a GE in autumn which is being rumoured and not beyond the bounds of possibilities, you are advocating that the EU should be allowed to put a referendum question on the ballot paper?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Excellent idea! Something we can all agree upon, I presume?

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

What has the Council of Europe got to do with Brexit or the EU ?

 

Go and play with your toys.

 

What it has to do with it is what he wanted it to become, which is all that you are pretending the public still didn't know about in 1975, we can see from Churchill words that it was the plan all along, and no doubt  your need to cut the relevant part off the quote is due to the fact that otherwise you would have to acknowledge the truth and the fact that you have been attempting to prove a lie to be true.

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

So, to be clear, should TM be forced into a GE in autumn which is being rumoured and not beyond the bounds of possibilities, you are advocating that the EU should be allowed to put a referendum question on the ballot paper?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

If it came out as an EU directive and it goes on ballot papers on every National election across the EU, then I would have no issues with it whatsoever.

[aright]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It's there on the chart - Eurobarometer. I doubt they will release to you the names of the respondents, but you can ask them, I guess, although this site says that the surveys are undertaken for them rather than by them, so probably they have no idea either.

Eurobarometer is run by the unaccountable, we don't publish poll details, you have to trust us, European Commission.

What can we conclude from that?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

So, to be clear, should TM be forced into a GE in autumn which is being rumoured and not beyond the bounds of possibilities, you are advocating that the EU should be allowed to put a referendum question on the ballot paper?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

In case you hadn't noticed the UK have already had a referendum vote, but it would be interesting to see it put to the other 27 members. The Visegrad 4, Austria, Italy, Spain and Portugal would be fighting to be favourites to vote leave with Bet365 …… in play with Ray

[The Renegade]

Quote

The euro slipped on Friday and is set for a sixth consecutive week of losses as concerns over Italy’s debt outlook weighed on sentiment,

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-global-forex/euro-set-for-sixth-week-of-losses-as-concerns-linger-idUSKCN1IQ093

 

I am beginning to smell desperation.

 

From the classic Apocalypse Now

 

'' I love the smell of desperation in the morning ''

 

 

[aright]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

'' I love the smell of desperation in the morning ''

 

 

I prefer it at midnight when I climb into bed with a pretty young thing.  ?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

I prefer it at midnight when I climb into bed with a pretty young thing.  ?

Your desperation, or hers ??  ??

[StreetCowboy]

56 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Instead of publishing polls. I thing the EU should put their money where their mouth is.

 

Instruct all EU Governments that in their next National election an addendum is to be added.

 

Do you agree that the EU should continue on its current path to a Supra-National single state

 

Or

 

Should the EU revert back to a simple Trading Agreement, overseen by a Single Trading Commission.

 

Sort it one way or the other.

We should have referenda on every aspect of policy, and also government procurement and curriculum development in schools, and road traffic regulations.  And medical guidelines.

 

We know what's best for us.  

[Orac]

Just now, StreetCowboy said:

We should have referenda on every aspect of policy, and also government procurement and curriculum development in schools, and road traffic regulations.  And medical guidelines.

 

We know what's best for us.  

Don't forget the referendum in the UK that  we need to have on whether to give the EU the legal right to ask a referendum question in the UK.

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is from the Spectator published in February

 

QUOTE

It was true that Churchill came up with a plan for the pound sterling to join a common currency, but it was with the US dollar.

 

‘Where do we stand?’ Churchill asked the Commons in 1952:

We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition ‘with’ but not ‘of’ — we are with them, but not of them.

 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/churchill-was-all-in-favour-of-a-united-europe-as-long-as-it-didnt-include-britain/

 

Note how in the original plan, Churchill said, "we" must build a United States of Europe, rather than "they" must build one.

 

And he did also say, "We genuinely wish to join a European free trade area"

 

And he also said, “I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”

[aright]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

We should have referenda on every aspect of policy, and also government procurement and curriculum development in schools, and road traffic regulations.  And medical guidelines.

 

We know what's best for us.  

That's completely undemocratic. First you need to have a referendum on referenda but before that you most probably need to have a referendum on the wording of the referendum.

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

It's prefered option is still:  all of the benefits of membership without paying for it or having any of the responsibilities. 

We've agreed to pay the EU £39bn.  That to me is paying for it!

[Janner1]

On 2/28/2018 at 7:32 AM, Get Real said:

That´s what happens when people voting do not know what they vote for at all.

One presumes that you do know!

 

I along with millions more have been forced to live through 43 years and more of the imposition of German and French corruption and rules and regulations that have been put upon us without rhyme or reason or discussion with the people who have to live with it, ALL OF US.

 

This once great country has gone to war at the behest of German arrogance and its wish to be the supreme leader in all things, 3 times.

Two that became world wars but started by Germany in which millions died fighting for the freedom to choose thier own path in life.

 

The third was the european union one between Germany and England wherein Germany having not been able to win the first two decided to war with us again, but this time it was financial.

 

Two polititions in the 70s who are now thankfully dead but did grave damage to our country, gave Germany with French collusion the opportunity it craved to defeat us.

England, this tiny little island that once ruled two thirds of the world and was not even defeated by the Roman armies.

 

 The Germans tried to undermine and take away the London money market and shutting down our financial institutions,

they even wanted to tax our private pension funds by 5 billion year on year to fund thier own pension shortfall.

 

BUT the referendum gave England  Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the chance to fight back, everyone had an equal vote, everyone could choose the way they wanted to go with it, so you and all of those who could not be bothered to take the opportunity should stop bitching at the MAJORITY of good people who did get off thier rear ends and voted to take back our country from levels of corruption unprecedented in English history.

 

You “Get real” obviously think you know everything but did you know of the final documented coop de gra to be inflicted by Germany and France on our great country was to relegate us to nothing more than a Suberb of Brussels the smallest country in the European Union.

 

Therein is just one of the real reasons why we the people spoke up and fought back and we beat the Germans again,

We are English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish and we are all members of the finest nation on Earth and you and all the other remoaners should remember that, and while you are at it DON’T YOU DARE EVER TELL ME THAT I DID NOT KNOW WHAT I VOTED FOR

 

[soalbundy]

36 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-global-forex/euro-set-for-sixth-week-of-losses-as-concerns-linger-idUSKCN1IQ093

 

I am beginning to smell desperation.

 

From the classic Apocalypse Now

 

'' I love the smell of desperation in the morning ''

 

 

don't mention the pound.

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

The EU has always stated that, because of art 50 time constraints, any deal would have to be based off an existing treaty - new trading agreements will take 5-10 years to negotiate and ratify.

One of the many reasons why a stitched together club of 28 nations is so cumbersome and will fall apart. Trade agreements should not take 5-10 years to negotiate and ratify, but there are too many people to please.

[aright]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

don't mention the pound.

or the Deutsche Bank Debt to Equity ratio or their share price.

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

don't mention the pound.

The £ ? why should I mention that ? It goes to wherever it goes to ? Not something I concern myself with.

[StreetCowboy]

17 minutes ago, Janner1 said:

One presumes that you do know!

 

I along with millions more have been forced to live through 43 years and more of the imposition of German and French corruption and rules and regulations that have been put upon us without rhyme or reason or discussion with the people who have to live with it, ALL OF US.

 

This once great country has gone to war at the behest of German arrogance and its wish to be the supreme leader in all things, 3 times.

Two that became world wars but started by Germany in which millions died fighting for the freedom to choose thier own path in life.

 

The third was the european union one between Germany and England wherein Germany having not been able to win the first two decided to war with us again, but this time it was financial.

 

Two polititions in the 70s who are now thankfully dead but did grave damage to our country, gave Germany with French collusion the opportunity it craved to defeat us.

England, this tiny little island that once ruled two thirds of the world and was not even defeated by the Roman armies.

 

 The Germans tried to undermine and take away the London money market and shutting down our financial institutions,

they even wanted to tax our private pension funds by 5 billion year on year to fund thier own pension shortfall.

 

BUT the referendum gave England  Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the chance to fight back, everyone had an equal vote, everyone could choose the way they wanted to go with it, so you and all of those who could not be bothered to take the opportunity should stop bitching at the MAJORITY of good people who did get off thier rear ends and voted to take back our country from levels of corruption unprecedented in English history.

 

You “Get real” obviously think you know everything but did you know of the final documented coop de gra to be inflicted by Germany and France on our great country was to relegate us to nothing more than a Suberb of Brussels the smallest country in the European Union.

 

Therein is just one of the real reasons why we the people spoke up and fought back and we beat the Germans again,

We are English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish and we are all members of the finest nation on Earth and you and all the other remoaners should remember that, and while you are at it DON’T YOU DARE EVER TELL ME THAT I DID NOT KNOW WHAT I VOTED FOR

 

You voted because you were still fighting the last war.  Wasn't 1966 enough to put that to bed?

[soalbundy]

18 minutes ago, Janner1 said:

One presumes that you do know!

 

I along with millions more have been forced to live through 43 years and more of the imposition of German and French corruption and rules and regulations that have been put upon us without rhyme or reason or discussion with the people who have to live with it, ALL OF US.

 

This once great country has gone to war at the behest of German arrogance and its wish to be the supreme leader in all things, 3 times.

Two that became world wars but started by Germany in which millions died fighting for the freedom to choose thier own path in life.

 

The third was the european union one between Germany and England wherein Germany having not been able to win the first two decided to war with us again, but this time it was financial.

 

Two polititions in the 70s who are now thankfully dead but did grave damage to our country, gave Germany with French collusion the opportunity it craved to defeat us.

England, this tiny little island that once ruled two thirds of the world and was not even defeated by the Roman armies.

 

 The Germans tried to undermine and take away the London money market and shutting down our financial institutions,

they even wanted to tax our private pension funds by 5 billion year on year to fund thier own pension shortfall.

 

BUT the referendum gave England  Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the chance to fight back, everyone had an equal vote, everyone could choose the way they wanted to go with it, so you and all of those who could not be bothered to take the opportunity should stop bitching at the MAJORITY of good people who did get off thier rear ends and voted to take back our country from levels of corruption unprecedented in English history.

 

You “Get real” obviously think you know everything but did you know of the final documented coop de gra to be inflicted by Germany and France on our great country was to relegate us to nothing more than a Suberb of Brussels the smallest country in the European Union.

 

Therein is just one of the real reasons why we the people spoke up and fought back and we beat the Germans again,

We are English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish and we are all members of the finest nation on Earth and you and all the other remoaners should remember that, and while you are at it DON’T YOU DARE EVER TELL ME THAT I DID NOT KNOW WHAT I VOTED FOR

 

Quite a flag waving hissy fit

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Instead of publishing polls. I thing the EU should put their money where their mouth is.

 

Instruct all EU Governments that in their next National election an addendum is to be added.

 

Do you agree that the EU should continue on its current path to a Supra-National single state

 

Or

 

Should the EU revert back to a simple Trading Agreement, overseen by a Single Trading Commission.

 

Sort it one way or the other.

The EU being flexible, democratic and unselfish?  As much as this would be great, I think Hell will freeze over first.

[aright]

17 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Quite a flag waving hissy fit

[Get Real]

35 minutes ago, Janner1 said:

One presumes that you do know!

 

I along with millions more have been forced to live through 43 years and more of the imposition of German and French corruption and rules and regulations that have been put upon us without rhyme or reason or discussion with the people who have to live with it, ALL OF US.

 

This once great country has gone to war at the behest of German arrogance and its wish to be the supreme leader in all things, 3 times.

Two that became world wars but started by Germany in which millions died fighting for the freedom to choose thier own path in life.

 

The third was the european union one between Germany and England wherein Germany having not been able to win the first two decided to war with us again, but this time it was financial.

 

Two polititions in the 70s who are now thankfully dead but did grave damage to our country, gave Germany with French collusion the opportunity it craved to defeat us.

England, this tiny little island that once ruled two thirds of the world and was not even defeated by the Roman armies.

 

 The Germans tried to undermine and take away the London money market and shutting down our financial institutions,

they even wanted to tax our private pension funds by 5 billion year on year to fund thier own pension shortfall.

 

BUT the referendum gave England  Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the chance to fight back, everyone had an equal vote, everyone could choose the way they wanted to go with it, so you and all of those who could not be bothered to take the opportunity should stop bitching at the MAJORITY of good people who did get off thier rear ends and voted to take back our country from levels of corruption unprecedented in English history.

 

You “Get real” obviously think you know everything but did you know of the final documented coop de gra to be inflicted by Germany and France on our great country was to relegate us to nothing more than a Suberb of Brussels the smallest country in the European Union.

 

Therein is just one of the real reasons why we the people spoke up and fought back and we beat the Germans again,

We are English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish and we are all members of the finest nation on Earth and you and all the other remoaners should remember that, and while you are at it DON’T YOU DARE EVER TELL ME THAT I DID NOT KNOW WHAT I VOTED FOR

 

And, in what why did you explain why and what you voted for. I guess the only thing you just did, was making a complaint in about 250-300 words. A lot of it was also just your private opinion about things that you are diappointed with. The question I still stand for. Do people really know that they woted for something that is better? In that case, why so much fuzz, and why does nobody know anything? Or maybe, still most people just voted about something they didn´t know shit about.

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The EU being flexible, democratic and unselfish?  As much as this would be great, I think Hell will freeze over first.

Of course it will.

[The Renegade]

12 minutes ago, Get Real said:

The question I still stand for. Do people really know that they woted for something that is better?

Better is highly subjective.

 

How about a simple controlled from Brussels and by the ECJ was no longer acceptable.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Eurobarometer is run by the unaccountable, we don't publish poll details, you have to trust us, European Commission.

What can we conclude from that?

We can conclude that no matter what is presented to you, if it goes against your innate prejudice, you will rubbish it regardless of its merit.

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Whereas the majorities within the nations you mention are all recognising that, regardless of its flaws, better in the EU than out.

 

 

What like the majority of British people who voted to remain in the EU. Is the the sort of majority you mean?