Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

As I have said before..the UK should state quite clearly that it is quite prepared to walk away with no deal then watch many of the eu member countries turn on brussels like a crazed pack of feral animals
Imo..the remoaners are men of straw or they stand to lose a lot of money when the UK breaks away from the eu.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

We are on course for walking away with no deal in 9 months time. Europe is prepared for that. We are not.

[aright]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Ok, I was bored!

 

How bout this?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/30/brexit-uk-may-get-poorer-access-than-israel-to-eu-science-scheme

 

?

At first glance my reaction was, on the strength of wanting maximum research outcome, it would be sensible to ask countries to participate on the strength of what they can contribute practically and intellectually which in itself is a cost. I do however need more time with the problem.

As an aside but nevertheless important I have great faith in the UKs research abilities especially in our Universities. Globally we have 3 universities ranked in the top 10  and 7 ranked in the top 40. Germany has one ranked in the top 40 at number 34. What does that tell you about Germany?

As far as LOS is concerned I would advise you to get your children educated elsewhere. If memory serves the best is around 500 globally. A Teacher friend informs me they barely make A level standard. Because of my love affair with Thailand that makes me very sad.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

I am a little curious. You constantly claim that you don't want "us" presumably the Brits to leave the EU yet you live in France.

 

Are you so concerned that after Brexit the French and the EU will kick you out? 

The problem is my right to live and work  in France derives from me being a British citizen and the UK being part of the EU.

 

I also now have a problem because Brexit killed off one of my businesses and I'm now living off royalty income and the occasional programming gig  but the total is only about half the French minimum wage. This is not a problem for me, I live cheaply, don't drink(much) or smoke(at all), own my house outright, am off grid for electric and grow most of my own(organic) veg. My car is 17 years old and I do all my own maintenance, in summer often use my electric bike in preference, Spend winters here so don't have any heating bills. OK I'm probably liberal "elite"! 

 

So if we leave on bad terms, my situation could be precarious, much depends on how we treat EU citizens in UK. If I lost my right to live there I'd probably have to move to Thailand full time, rather than return to the UK.

[nontabury]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

The problem is my right to live and work  in France derives from me being a British citizen and the UK being part of the EU.

 

I also now have a problem because Brexit killed off one of my businesses and I'm now living off royalty income and the occasional programming gig  but the total is only about half the French minimum wage. This is not a problem for me, I live cheaply, don't drink(much) or smoke(at all), own my house outright, am off grid for electric and grow most of my own(organic) veg. My car is 17 years old and I do all my own maintenance, in summer often use my electric bike in preference, Spend winters here so don't have any heating bills. OK I'm probably liberal "elite"! 

 

So if we leave on bad terms, my situation could be precarious, much depends on how we treat EU citizens in UK. If I lost my right to live there I'd probably have to move to Thailand full time, rather than return to the UK.

So basically your a remoaner, because you are selfishly thinking of yourself,and to hell with everyone else.

[tebee]

24 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So basically your a remoaner, because you are selfishly thinking of yourself,and to hell with everyone else.

 

No I'm a remainer because Brexit is a pretty damn stupid idea ! The fact that it may leave me up sh1t creek without the proverbial paddle does add a certain piquancy to the situation though.

 

Brexit is wrong answer to the woes of the UK (neoliberalism) and will only make things worse. To me brexit is a frightened little Britain being scared by the modern world and wanting to escape to an earlier, simpler time  when things were much easier to understand. Sadly that time no longer exists as we are to find out shortly. 

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

No I'm a remainer because Brexit is a pretty damn stupid idea ! The fact that it may leave me up sh1t creek without the proverbial paddle does add a certain piquancy to the situation though.

 

Brexit is wrong answer to the woes of the UK (neoliberalism) and will only make things worse. To me brexit is a frightened little Britain being scared by the modern world and wanting to escape to an earlier, simpler time  when things were much easier to understand. Sadly that time no longer exists as we are to find out shortly. 

You are confused. Brexit is not about rectifying any woes in the UK; it is about the EU. The referendum result is the long-awaited opportunity for the British to tell the EU that it is not as wonderful and necessary as it thinks it is. Common trade and travel (even reciprocal European employment/residence) agreements could be easily agreed between willing countries, without having to have these "four pillars" looming over an EU, which is shrinking within its own protectionist market.  

[tomacht8]

27 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You are confused. Brexit is not about rectifying any woes in the UK; it is about the EU. The referendum result is the long-awaited opportunity for the British to tell the EU that it is not as wonderful and necessary as it thinks it is. Common trade and travel (even reciprocal European employment/residence) agreements could be easily agreed between willing countries, without having to have these "four pillars" looming over an EU, which is shrinking within its own protectionist market.  

Oh dear.

Without the protectionist market?

Do you really think that European companies could compete with countries worldwide, where workers earn $ 3 a day in production?

 

I think Brexit does not want to have "cheap" Polish and Romanian craftsmen?

What is this?

UK - market Protection?

 

Then one could cynically say that the uK economy is not competitive even within the eu.

Have fun then with you future trade deals.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by tomacht8

[aright]

Cuts to the EU’s most important programmes have been made unavoidable by the UK’s departure, according to the man in charge of the bloc’s budget.

EU Budget Commissioner Gunther Oettinger described Brexit as a “game changer” as he came under fire for over his plans during a debate in the European Parliament.

The UK is the EU’s second largest financial contributor and its exit next year will cost Brussels £8.8bn-a-year. Member states are being asked to pay more into the first post-Brexit EU budget as a consequence, but Oettinger has also proposed cuts to the bloc’s two most expensive policies.

The Common Agricultural Policy, which supports farmers, and the Cohesion Policy, aimed at reducing regional inequality, currently account for more than 70% of EU spending.

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brexit-game-changer-eu-spending-says-commission-amid-criticism-cuts-111333771.html

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Oh dear.

Without the protectionist market?

Do you really think that European companies could compete with countries worldwide, where workers earn $ 3 a day in production?

 

I think Brexit does not want to have "cheap" Polish and Romanian craftsmen?

What is this?

UK - market Protection?

 

Of course they can compete, if they're good enough. The Germans, Dutch and Swedes do just fine anyway. Others could do too if they put their minds and backs into it. Quality is at least as important as three dollar quantity. Read my post again regarding employment, dear!

[tomacht8]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Of course they can compete, if they're good enough. The Germans, Dutch and Swedes do just fine anyway. Others could do too if they put their minds and backs into it. Quality is at least as important as three dollar quantity. Read my post again regarding employment, dear!

 

Snip

(even reciprocal European employment/residence)?

But that's just rejected by the brexiteers.

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, malagateddy said:

As I have said before..the UK should state quite clearly that it is quite prepared to walk away with no deal then watch many of the eu member countries turn on brussels like a crazed pack of feral animals
Imo..the remoaners are men of straw or they stand to lose a lot of money when the UK breaks away from the eu.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Your pound ,your bahts , your trigger - Russian roulette is great fun I have plenty to lose and I'll still have plenty if the pound crashes particularly as I spend as little time in Thailand now as I can get away with - how about you ? Cheerleaders of your own misguided destitution.

 

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin', that's all that Bobby left me, yeah
But, feelin' good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues
Hey, feelin' good was good enough for me, mm-hmm
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee

Edited May 30, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[malagateddy]

Your pound ,your bahts , your trigger - Russian roulette is great fun I have plenty to lose and I'll still have plenty if the pound crashes particularly as I spend as little time in Thailand now as I can get away with - how about you ? Cheerleaders of your own misguided destitution.
 
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin', that's all that Bobby left me, yeah
But, feelin' good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues
Hey, feelin' good was good enough for me, mm-hmm
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee

I have enough to live comfortably thank you.
I think about and feel for good friends in the UK who for one reason or another..cannot escape the clutches of the fraudulent corrupt eu jobsworths.
Cheers

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

You are confused. Brexit is not about rectifying any woes in the UK; it is about the EU. The referendum result is the long-awaited opportunity for the British to tell the EU that it is not as wonderful and necessary as it thinks it is. Common trade and travel (even reciprocal European employment/residence) agreements could be easily agreed between willing countries, without having to have these "four pillars" looming over an EU, which is shrinking within its own protectionist market.  

There’s more than enough posts from Brexiteers here on TVF demonstrating their complete and utter lack of knowledge of how the EU operates and the relationship between the British Parliament, British Law and the EU to expose this idea the British are fed up with the EU as nonsense.

 

Almost every anti EU argument presented by Brexiteers is a fallacy with no relationship to the reality of the UK’s relationship to the EU or how the EU operates.

 

And please, the British have not told the EU anything. The pro Leave vote is well short of a majority of the British.

[Scott]

A post with a modified quote has been removed.   Do it again and I'll 'fix that for you.'

 

[Tanoshi]

41 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And please, the British have not told the EU anything. The pro Leave vote is well short of a majority of the British.

51.9% is a majority.

 

[The Renegade]

48 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s more than enough posts from Brexiteers here on TVF demonstrating their complete and utter lack of knowledge of how the EU operates and the relationship between the British Parliament, British Law and the EU to expose this idea the British are fed up with the EU as nonsense.

You must have missed the comments of remainers, who highlight your point very well.

 

Best not name them, it appears some people have ants in their pants.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

 

The referrendum did not suspend the ongoing process of democracy.

 

 

 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

 

The referrendum did not suspend the ongoing process of democracy.

 

 

 

Dragging out an article from 2016 reeks of desperation.

 

Last weekend should have shown you how the EU '' Suspends '' the ongoing process of Democracy.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Dragging out an article from 2016 reeks of desperation.

 

Last weekend should have shown you how the EU '' Suspends '' the ongoing process of Democracy.

So you don’t like to be reminded of the arguments made by key players in the Brexit campaign.

 

I call that desperation.

 

Regardless, democracy is an ongoing process, it did not come to a shuddering halt on the morning of the referendum result.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s more than enough posts from Brexiteers here on TVF demonstrating their complete and utter lack of knowledge of how the EU operates and the relationship between the British Parliament, British Law and the EU to expose this idea the British are fed up with the EU as nonsense.

 

Almost every anti EU argument presented by Brexiteers is a fallacy with no relationship to the reality of the UK’s relationship to the EU or how the EU operates.

 

And please, the British have not told the EU anything. The pro Leave vote is well short of a majority of the British.

 

****There’s more than enough posts from Brexiteers here on TVF demonstrating their complete and utter lack of knowledge of how the EU operates and the relationship between the British Parliament, British Law and the EU to expose this idea the British are fed up with the EU as nonsense****

 

Well tell us how it all does operate, rather than simply saying that anyone that disagrees with you has a complete and utter lack of knowledge

 

****Almost every anti EU argument presented by Brexiteers is a fallacy with no relationship to the reality of the UK’s relationship to the EU or how the EU operates****

 

Again, more naysaying, simply berating others views and shouting them down, does not cut the mustard on this forum; you need to enlighten us all with the knowledge you seem to think you have, and explain the reality, rather than just boohooing from the grandstand

 

 

 

****The pro Leave vote is well short of a majority of the British****

 

Did you not understand the terms of the referendum; the result was determined by the majority vote of those British people on the electoral register that were eligible to vote, and were bothered to exercise their democratic right to do so. That is how the referendum worked.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

****There’s more than enough posts from Brexiteers here on TVF demonstrating their complete and utter lack of knowledge of how the EU operates and the relationship between the British Parliament, British Law and the EU to expose this idea the British are fed up with the EU as nonsense****

 

Well tell us how it all does operate, rather than simply saying that anyone that disagrees with you has a complete and utter lack of knowledge

 

****Almost every anti EU argument presented by Brexiteers is a fallacy with no relationship to the reality of the UK’s relationship to the EU or how the EU operates****

 

Again, more naysaying, simply berating others views and shouting them down, does not cut the mustard on this forum; you need to enlighten us all with the knowledge you seem to think you have, and explain the reality, rather than just boohooing from the grandstand

 

 

 

****The pro Leave vote is well short of a majority of the British****

 

Did you not understand the terms of the referendum; the result was determined by the majority vote of those British people on the electoral register that were eligible to vote, and were bothered to exercise their democratic right to do so. That is how the referendum worked.

My post history in this thread is available, you’ll find plenty examples of me challenging misrepresentations of the EU/UK relationship amongst them.

 

Going forward I shall continue to point out Brexiteer fallacies.

 

I welcome you pointing out and fallacies I post. Good luck with that.

 

[edit], yes I understand the referrendum and the terms under which it took place. Do you understand that the UK is a democracy, that democracy is an ongoing process and that it is the democratic right of the British people to reverse any decision made by referrendum or government?

Edited May 31, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Did you not understand the terms of the referendum; the result was determined by the majority vote of those British people on the electoral register that were eligible to vote, and were bothered to exercise their democratic right to do so. That is how the referendum worked.

To paraphrase another poster. Remainers are not very bright. They cannot get their heads around.

 

Quote

This is YOUR decision, the Government will implement what YOU decide.

It was decided by 51.9% of those that that got off their @rses and voted.

Edited May 31, 2018 by The Renegade

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

To paraphrase another poster. Remainers are not very bright. They cannot get their heads around.

 

It was decided by 51.9% of those that that got off their @rses and voted.

You’ve still not got your head around the fact democracy is an ongoing process and that it is the democratic right of the British people to reverse any decision made by referrendum or government.

 

Farage understood this when he said a 48/52 defeat for Leave would be unfinished business.

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve still not got your head around the fact democracy is an ongoing process and that it is the democratic right of the British people to reverse any decision made by referrendum or government.

 

Farage understood this when he said a 48/52 defeat for Leave would be unfinished business.

 

 

There was 41 years between the last two referendums on EU membership ….. enjoy the wait

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

It was decided by 51.9% of thos that that got off their @rses and voted.

And a lot of those that couldn't, elderly, vulnerable and disabled would have voted 'leave', so 51.9% was actually a misrepresentation of those who were eligible to vote.

 

Meanwhile in other news today, Luxembourg's PM highlights the importance of the EU to UK citizens, revelling in how many UK citizens have applied for EU citizenship. Another 'remain' supporter who dismisses alternatives figures that don't fit his argument.

Last year some 6,500 UK citizens applied for EU nationality.

On the flip side almost 40,000 EU citizens applied for UK nationality.

 

Maybe the EU citizens know something the UK 'remainers' are missing.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

There was 41 years between the last two referendums on EU membership ….. enjoy the wait

Given the back tracking, weak and wobbly weaving and the evaporation of ‘red lines’, I have no expectation of a long wait.

 

Neither do Brexiteers, which is why they are becoming increasingly agitated.

[The Renegade]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

yes I understand the referrendum and the terms under which it took place. Do you understand that the UK is a democracy, that democracy is an ongoing process and that it is the democratic right of the British people to reverse any decision made by referrendum or government?

No, you do not understand.

 

The UK is not a democracy, it is a Parliamentary Democracy.

 

The people do not have the right to overturn any decision made by Referendum or Government.

 

I have no idea why you are getting so excited about it. The above paragraph makes it clear you are a non Brit.

 

Which sets this up nicely for a real hoot.

 

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Going forward I shall continue to point out Brexiteer fallacies.

 

I welcome you pointing out and fallacies I post. Good luck with that.

It will be interesting to say the least.

 

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Luxembourg's PM highlights the importance of the EU to UK citizens, revelling in how many UK citizens have applied for EU citizenship.

So let's debunk another fallacy.

 

No-one has applied for EU Citizenship, it simply does not exist.

 

They might be applying for German, Dutch or Belgian Citizenship, certainly not EU Citizenship.

Edited May 31, 2018 by The Renegade

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

No, you do not understand.

 

The UK is not a democracy, it is a Parliamentary Democracy.

 

The people do not have the right to overturn any decision made by Referendum or Government.

 

I have no idea why you are getting so excited about it. The above paragraph makes it clear you are a non Brit.

 

Which sets this up nicely for a real hoot.

 

It will be interesting to say the least.

 

“The people do not have the right to overturn any decision made by Referendum or Government”

 

Watch and learn.

[Chomper Higgot]

Brexit is failing.

 

Why is that?