Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[soalbundy]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Don't tell us, tell your MP assuming that you have the right to vote in the UK

 

They can effect change far more easily than we can.

 

I wrote to my MP last week asking about Brexit.

 

Where do you stand politically on the Brexit question and where do you stand personally?

 

Her response was

 

As a politician, I am lucky that my personal and political positions are one and the same. I believe that as an MP I should follow my constituents vote. As they voted to leave the European Union, I am duty bound to follow this, even if I myself voted remain. With current amendments likely to undermine the Government’s ability to negotiate the best deal, I will not be supporting them.

 

Her constituency voted to leave.

So even she is despairing of the mess

[transam]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

So even she is despairing of the mess

Or perhaps thinking about her personal "life".

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

They lied !! They promised £350 million a week for the NHS they squealed !!

 

Apparently May has went even higher

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-nhs/britains-may-to-pledge-20-billion-pound-health-service-cash-boost-reports-idUSKBN1JC10P

 

Time to wake up to reality. As much as it hurts and scares you, the UK IS LEAVING the EU.

yeah ? tell us how, when and under what conditions because even the government doesn't know. As for promises after Brexit, well who cares about the lies I told yesterday, especially as she is unlikely to still be PM then, like Thatcher she will have become a liability for the party.

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

yeah ? tell us how, when and under what conditions because even the government doesn't know.

??

 

Hurting much ?

 

If you had taken the time to read the articles, it is laid out in a fashion that even 10 year old's could understand.

 

But nah, just vent without reading. Appears to be a common problem among remainers.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

??

 

Hurting much ?

 

If you had taken the time to read the articles, it is laid out in a fashion that even 10 year old's could understand.

 

But nah, just vent without reading. Appears to be a common problem among remainers.

It takes 2 to tango, do the articles say anything about chaos?

[transam]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

It takes 2 to tango, do the articles say anything about chaos?

Well I think the EU are looking at being in chaos regarding the loss of UK cash which was supporting EU members that have sod all...

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Well I think the EU are looking at being in chaos regarding the loss of UK cash which was supporting EU members that have sod all...

yes it's unnecessary chaos all round, the law of entropy is alive and well, Trump's trade war will just add to the mix, interesting times indeed.

[The Renegade]

26 minutes ago, transam said:

Well I think the EU are looking at being in chaos regarding the loss of UK cash which was supporting EU members that have sod all...

Loss of UK cash is the least of the EU's worries.

 

The Italians have now blocked all ports to migrant ships.

 

Merkel may well be picking up her P45 next week.

 

The EC is trying to gain support to sanction Poland.

 

And the next EU budget negotiations are about to start in earnest, which have already been shot down by 8 EU Members led by Holland.

 

EU in chaos right enough.

Edited June 17, 2018 by The Renegade

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

Loss of UK cash is the least of the EU's worries.

 

The Italians have now blacked all ports to migrant ships.

 

Merkel may well be picking up her P45 next week.

 

The EC is trying to gain support to sanction Poland.

 

And the next EU budget negotiations are about to start in earnest, which have already been shot down by 8 EU Members lead by Holland.

 

EU in chaos right enough.

true enough but benign compared to the UK, with Trump the anti-Christ at the trade helm we may start seeing the end of times ?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

Remainers head’s remain deeply buried in the sand. Not one single remainer on this forum has been prepared to react or respond to the current issues facing the EU, even though I have posted in detail about them. Instead, they content themselves with recycling old economic and unemployment forecasts, posting cartoons, irrelevant third party links or other meaningless drivel.

In Germany, the Interior Minister, Horst Seehofer is in open revolt with Chancellor  Merkel over immigration, in a move that could signal the end of her term of office. He is seeking an unofficial alliance with Austria and Italy to change the EU policy on immigration.

 

This unofficial alliance is now receiving support from President Macron, as he realigns himself with the current (populist) feelings, that are flowing like a tidal wave through Europe. These are the real issues that are changing the very structure of the Union, as the UK negotiates with them about Brexit, but not a peep out of any remainers, or, significantly, Jean Claude Junker about the issues that really matter

 

When are "remainers" going to face up to the fact that the EU is in terminal decline, as more and more voters in individual countries turn their backs on the ‘Federal  State of Europe’ dream, because they can see that free movement and fiscal union are insuperable obstacles.. 

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

When are "remainers" going to face up to the fact that the EU is in terminal decline, as more and more voters in individual countries turn their backs on the ‘Federal  State of Europe’ dream, because they can see that free movement and fiscal union are insuperable obstacles.. 

To put it bluntly. They will never '' face up to the facts '' It is a form of brainwashing. There can be no other explanation for it.

 

[transam]

The remoaners keep posting here about the UK Gov are ballsing up Brexit but not a word about the EU and it's turmoil...Strange that....?

[RuamRudy]

19 hours ago, vogie said:

I think your correct, he was actually spotted walking past the BBC studios yesterday.

 

 

If only I had such a fine head of hair!

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, transam said:

The remoaners keep posting here about the UK Gov are ballsing up Brexit

I take issue with this statement ??

 

I do not believe it is the UK Government ballsing up Brexit. 

 

I believe it is a combination of remainers and the EU negotiating team who are ballsing up Brexit, as they are the ones that are trying every trick in the book to keep the UK shackled to the EU .

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

??

 

Hurting much ?

 

If you had taken the time to read the articles, it is laid out in a fashion that even 10 year old's could understand.

 

But nah, just vent without reading. Appears to be a common problem among remainers.

The government’s statement of intent to put more money into the NHS is a response to widespread public concern that Tory funding cuts have driven the NHS to near collapse.

 

They are nothing to do with Brexit.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

18 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

To put it bluntly. They will never '' face up to the facts '' It is a form of brainwashing. There can be no other explanation for it.

 

Indeed, it is a strange phenomenon, that many remainers continually claim that some (leave) voters have changed their minds since the referendum, which is merely conjecture, but seem unable to recognise the huge changes in the EU since the referendum.

 

Where there was once nodding acquiesce and obedience to Merkel’s rule and policies, there is now anger, resentment and open revolt; it is indeed a very different Union to the one that some people voted to remain in a couple of years ago.

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I take issue with this statement ??

 

I do not believe it is the UK Government ballsing up Brexit. 

 

I believe it is a combination of remainers and the EU negotiating team who are ballsing up Brexit, as they are the ones that are trying every trick in the book to keep the UK shackled to the EU .

How does the  saying go, 'don't bring a knife to a gun fight'?

[The Renegade]

As Merkel fights for her Political life, she calls for

 

Quote

Europe needs a common solution to its ongoing migration crisis, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Saturday, as her governing conservative coalition struggles to reconcile internal differences on refugee policy.

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-calls-for-european-solution-on-migration/

 

Well, hate to point out the obvious, but the EU is 3 years down the road and still nowhere near a solution.

 

The one solution that they did come up, compulsory migrant quotas, got kicked into touch rather quickly.

 

So now Austria, Italy, Macron and your own Interior Minister are making plans of their own.

 

The question has to be asked, how is it they can see that the EU is not the answer and you cannot see it ?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Indeed, it is a strange phenomenon, that many remainers continually claim that some (leave) voters have changed their minds since the referendum, which is merely conjecture, but seem unable to recognise the huge changes in the EU since the referendum.

 

Where there was once nodding acquiesce and obedience to Merkel’s rule and policies, there is now anger, resentment and open revolt; it is indeed a very different Union to the one that some people voted to remain in a couple of years ago.

Because Merkel ‘rules’ the EU?!

 

Utter nonsense.

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Remainers head’s remain deeply buried in the sand. Not one single remainer on this forum has been prepared to react or respond to the current issues facing the EU, even though I have posted in detail about them. Instead, they content themselves with recycling old economic and unemployment forecasts, posting cartoons, irrelevant third party links or other meaningless drivel.

In Germany, the Interior Minister, Horst Seehofer is in open revolt with Chancellor  Merkel over immigration, in a move that could signal the end of her term of office. He is seeking an unofficial alliance with Austria and Italy to change the EU policy on immigration.

 

This unofficial alliance is now receiving support from President Macron, as he realigns himself with the current (populist) feelings, that are flowing like a tidal wave through Europe. These are the real issues that are changing the very structure of the Union, as the UK negotiates with them about Brexit, but not a peep out of any remainers, or, significantly, Jean Claude Junker about the issues that really matter

 

When are "remainers" going to face up to the fact that the EU is in terminal decline, as more and more voters in individual countries turn their backs on the ‘Federal  State of Europe’ dream, because they can see that free movement and fiscal union are insuperable obstacles.. 

you are correct that the migrant policies and open borders have caused discord and understandably so even though many countries are reliant on immigration if only to keep their pension funds operating,Germany in particular. I think these policies are on the cusp of being changed all that is required is a face saving solution, 'temporary emergency measures' whatever, politicians are good at face saving, they have to do it so often. To see the demise of the EU in this is wrong, the EU is an ideological and political construction as well as a financial, that's a heavy foundation. Bloomberg doesn't see the demise of Merkel any time soon but hey so what, politicians come and go, it would only have a minimal effect on Germany, the production lines won't stop and the EU will rethink immigration with or without Mutti. I don't think you can get rid of 'the mother of the nation' so easily but just as Helmut Schmidt as the nation's father had to go she too will have to leave the stage, her principles stand in her way, unusual for a politician. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Utter nonsense

Something you continually prove yourself to be a specialist at 

[The Renegade]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The government’s statement of intent to put more money into the NHS is a response to widespread public concern that Tory funding cuts have driven the NHS to near collapse.

 

They are nothing to do with Brexit.

 

That is because you cannot read.

 

My original comment

 

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

They lied !! They promised £350 million a week for the NHS they squealed !!

 

Apparently May has went even higher

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-nhs/britains-may-to-pledge-20-billion-pound-health-service-cash-boost-reports-idUSKBN1JC10P

 

Time to wake up to reality. As much as it hurts and scares you, the UK IS LEAVING the EU.

 

Edited to add:

 

It is also in the remainers Bible, the Guardian, so it must be true ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/16/may-to-unveil-20-billion-pound-a-year-nhs-boost

Do not know what school you attended, but my original comment makes it Brexit related.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

 

That is because you cannot read.

 

My original comment

 

Do not know what school you attended, but my original comment makes it Brexit related.

You have previously argued, ver reasonably, that Remain supporters cannot make claims of ‘Brexit Failures’ that relate to the final outcome of Brexit since the negotiations are not yet complete, the fin outcome not yet known.

 

Likewise, Brexit supporters cannot make claims of ‘Brexit Sucesses’ that are subject to the final deal.

 

The promise of money for the NHS from a ‘Brexit Dividend’ is, by the very arguments you have previously used, meaningless. 

 

The government has no idea if there will be a ‘Brexit Dividend’.

 

If you read the articles you linked, the government can’t actually say where any of their proposed spending is coming from other than vaguely pointing at taxes and a Brexit Dividend that doesn’t yet exist, if it ever will.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You have previously argued, ver reasonably, that Remain supporters cannot make claims of ‘Brexit Failures’ that relate to the final outcome of Brexit since the negotiations are not yet complete, the fin outcome not yet known.

 

Likewise, Brexit supporters cannot make claims of ‘Brexit Sucesses’ that are subject to the final deal.

 

The promise of money for the NHS from a ‘Brexit Dividend’ is, by the very arguments you have previously used, meaningless. 

 

The government has no idea if there will be a ‘Brexit Dividend’.

 

If you read the articles you linked, the government can’t actually say where any of their proposed spending is coming from other than vaguely pointing at taxes and a Brexit Dividend that doesn’t yet exist, if it ever will.

***If you read the articles you linked, the government can’t actually say where any of their proposed spending is coming from other than vaguely pointing at taxes and a Brexit Dividend that doesn’t yet exist, if it ever will***

 

Do you really understand so little about this, or are you trying to wind people up?

 

Are you completely unaware that the UK is a net contributor to the EU to the tune of more than £8 Billion per year, which when we leave the EU we will no longer pay = Brexit Dividend

[The Renegade]

33 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Do you really understand so little about this, or are you trying to wind people up?

 

Are you completely unaware that the UK is a net contributor to the EU to the tune of more than £8 Billion per year, which when we leave the EU we will no longer pay = Brexit Dividend

It would be beyond reason to believe that some people have so little understanding or lack of awareness, that one must come to the conclusion that they are indeed:

 

1. Trying to wind people up.

 

2. Trolling for effect.

 

Or

 

3. Really are as uneducated as their comments appear to suggest.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by The Renegade

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It would be beyond reason to believe that some people have so little understanding or lack of awareness, that one must come to the conclusion that they are indeed:

 

1. Trying to wind people up.

 

2. Trolling for effect.

 

Or

 

3. Really are as uneducated as their comments appear to suggest.

 

 

Or you could deal with the point I made.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It would be beyond reason to believe that some people have so little understanding or lack of awareness, that one must come to the conclusion that they are indeed:

 

1. Trying to wind people up.

 

2. Trolling for effect.

 

Or

 

3. Really are as uneducated as their comments appear to suggest.

 

 

My money’s on 2 or 3, which inevitably bring number 1 into play.

 

And there was I, thinking that all the Russians were busy watching the football

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

***If you read the articles you linked, the government can’t actually say where any of their proposed spending is coming from other than vaguely pointing at taxes and a Brexit Dividend that doesn’t yet exist, if it ever will***

 

Do you really understand so little about this, or are you trying to wind people up?

 

Are you completely unaware that the UK is a net contributor to the EU to the tune of more than £8 Billion per year, which when we leave the EU we will no longer pay = Brexit Dividend

Until the final deal is signed there is no dividend.

 

How a dividend that does not yet exist is allocated to the NHS buget is anyone’s guess.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

Those of you who Brexit will be easy should read this - the guy is a leaver, but one of the few who seems to recognize just how hard it will be to reverse 40 year of European integration.

 

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2018/06/i-love-brexit-but-i-hate-brexiters.html?spref=tw

Couldn't have put it better myself!

[soalbundy]

25 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

***If you read the articles you linked, the government can’t actually say where any of their proposed spending is coming from other than vaguely pointing at taxes and a Brexit Dividend that doesn’t yet exist, if it ever will***

 

Do you really understand so little about this, or are you trying to wind people up?

 

Are you completely unaware that the UK is a net contributor to the EU to the tune of more than £8 Billion per year, which when we leave the EU we will no longer pay = Brexit Dividend

I don't think all that money, if any, can be used as if it was a windfall, Brexit is also going to cost money, new institutions to replace the EU ones, increased customs recruitment,equipment,infrastructure, and deprived areas will still want the missing EU investment, there is the possibility of increased unemployment benefits to be paid and maybe incentive payments to firms not to relocate to Europe (Japanese car manufacturers ? ) then there are the structured divorce payments to the EU, all this will probably cost more than the 'windfall'. May is telling porkies but she will be gone before PMQ's can embarrass her.