Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I see you missed this part

 

 

 

 

https://fullfact.org/news/did-nhs-spending-managers-rise-450-under-labour/

 

As anyone that has ever worked in the NHS over the last 25 years will tell you. Too many Managers, too many meetings and not enough front line nurses and doctors.

Don't waste your time arguing about the NHS Budget, it has nothing to do with Brexit.

 

Go back to your post about the 'Brexit Dividend' being spent on the NHS and make the necessary edits to remove references to a 'Brexit Dividend' that does not yet, and probably never will, exist. 

 

 

We can then get back to the subject under discussion: Brexit Chaos.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

They are the only ones who will win because they are pressing the buttons, all we do is notice which of the coloured lights come on.

But they're in a bit of trouble now - as the populace has (hopefully) finally had enough of their self-centred agenda.

Edited June 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Actually (IMO) , one can leave a 'club' and whilst you'll lose any money paid so far towards projects - you can't be forced into paying more once you've left.

It depends if you still want to use the club's facilities. 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Actually (IMO) , one can leave a 'club' and whilst you'll lose any money paid so far towards projects - you can't be forced into paying more once you've left.

If you sign off a policy to pay this or that you have a financial responsibility.

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Actually (IMO) , one can leave a 'club' and whilst you'll lose any money paid so far towards projects - you can't be forced into paying more once you've left.

However if the description is more of a marriage then seeking a divorce does not absolve one of maintenance payments, though there is a 'club' of runners who somehow find their way to Thailand. They would happily go with the clean break malarkey. The trouble with the 'club' advocates is that they invariably have not bothered to read the small print they signed when they joined in the first place and their pleadings now of ignorance is worn like a campaign medal. Carry on.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

But they're in a bit of trouble now - as the populace has finally had enough of their self-centred agenda.

They will win either way, they control the flow of money, what do they care about leave or remain let the plebs ( for them that includes the politicians ) fight it out and then they adjust accordingly.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So you don't think some other posters here express schadfreude?

Ha ha Grouse, your German language skills are as bad as your French, stick to English old bean

 

schadenfreude ??

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Go back to your post about the 'Brexit Dividend' being spent on the NHS and make the necessary edits to remove references to a 'Brexit Dividend' that does not yet, and probably never will, exist. 

What are you gibbering about ?

 

I never mentioned a Brexit dividend. A Brexit dividend was reported in the MSM.

 

Too obtuse to  work out the difference in what someone actually says and what is reported in the MSM.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, soalbundy said:

If you sign off a policy to pay this or that you have a financial responsibility.

 

Which brings me back to :-

 

34 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"then there are the structured divorce payments to the EU".

 

Yes, I for one am paying close attention to this.  Why on earth should the uk pay the eu  anything once they have left - unless the uk is still receiving some benefit?

 

I can see a good argument for compromising over a small payment to continue the trading agreement (as it benefits both sides), but nothing further.

 

Once you leave a 'club', it's unlikely that you can be held responsible for future payments towards the various 'projects' - that the 'club' based on current contributions.

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

What are you gibbering about ?

 

I never mentioned a Brexit dividend. A Brexit dividend was reported in the MSM.

 

Too obtuse to  work out the difference in what someone actually says and what is reported in the MSM.

 

So you weren't referring to a Brexit dividend when you said "frees up a minimum of £8 Billion"?

 

Quote

You really are trying to take stupidity to a new level.

 

The UK is leaving the EU.

 

A final deal, as you put it, does not change that. 

 

That frees up a minimum of £8 Billion a year in EU budget contributions.

 

It also frees up the other untold £ Billions that goes annually into all the other EU funds that the UK contributes to.

 

I am sure you are smart enough to do your own research and find out what these funds are 

 

[The Renegade]

You know things are getting bad when the remainers Bible, the Guardian, resorts to this:

 

Quote

But what if Merkel falls? Can the centre hold? These are increasingly urgent questions as the once unassailable “Mutti” struggles to hold together a fractious coalition. The immediate issue, which is likely to come to a head on Monday, is a furious row over EU immigration policy. But other problems are piling up, with unpredictable consequences for Europe’s future cohesion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/17/angela-merkel-doubted-at-home-reign-ending

 

Remainer to the end, it makes that classic remainer mistake of conflating Europe with the EU.

Edited June 17, 2018 by The Renegade

[transam]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

So you weren't referring to a Brexit dividend when you said "frees up a minimum of £8 Billion"?

 

 

The Co-op gives dividend (or did).....

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Which brings me back to :-

 

 

Once you leave a 'club', it's unlikely that you can be held responsible for future payments towards the various 'projects' - that the 'club' based on current contributions.

If you were on the board voting for these payments and possibly arguing for them then yes you have a responsibility.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

So you weren't referring to a Brexit dividend when you said "frees up a minimum of £8 Billion"?

That is what I said.

 

The UK's contribution to the EU budget currently stands at a Net £8 Billion a year.

 

That will stop being passed to Brussels when the UK leaves the EU.

 

Nowhere did I mention a Brexit dividend.

 

You do not have one of these:

 

So I understand your difficulty in reading and comprehending English.

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

You know things are getting bad when the remainers Bible, the Guardian, resorts to this:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/17/angela-merkel-doubted-at-home-reign-ending

 

Remainer to the end, it makes that classic remainer mistake of conflating Europe with the EU.

 

The EU being the most cohesive part of Europe the statement is just factual. 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The EU being the most cohesive part of Europe the statement is just factual. 

....Cohesive.....

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The EU being the most cohesive part of Europe the statement is just factual. 

Let me help you out just this once.

 

Quote

But other problems are piling up, with unpredictable consequences for Europe’s future cohesion.

Do you think that the EU and Russia are particularly cohesive ?

 

The EU and Europe are 2 very different things.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

You know things are getting bad when the remainers Bible, the Guardian, resorts to this:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/17/angela-merkel-doubted-at-home-reign-ending

 

Remainer to the end, it makes that classic remainer mistake of conflating Europe with the EU.

Yes, Germany is just one country with its own problems, if Merkel goes there will be someone else to replace her, politicians come and go and that is a good thing.

Having said that Der Spiegel reports today that the sister party the CSU isn't considering having Merkel replaced.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

That is what I said.

 

The UK's contribution to the EU budget currently stands at a Net £8 Billion a year.

 

That will stop being passed to Brussels when the UK leaves the EU.

 

Nowhere did I mention a Brexit dividend.

 

You do not have one of these:

 

So I understand your difficulty in reading and comprehending English.

 

 

You didn't say stops, you said frees up, as in it would be a dividend, rather than the reality that it will only offset some of the loss of revenue.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

You didn't say stops, you said frees up, as in it would be a dividend, rather than the reality that it will only offset some of the loss of revenue.

why is he showing a pic of Mao's red book ?

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Let me help you out just this once.

 

Do you think that the EU and Russia are particularly cohesive ?

 

The EU and Europe are 2 very different things.

 

Do you know what 'part' means?  The cohesion of Europe can refer to all aspects of cohesion seen in Europe, clearly the largest aspect by a long way is the expansionist EU, therefore a threat to the EU is a threat to European cohesion.

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Having said that Der Spiegel reports today that the sister party the CSU isn't considering having Merkel replaced.

I do not think it is a case of seeking to have her replaced.

 

It is more of a case that her position is becoming untenable.

 

Seehofer has already sacked the head of BAMF.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

true enough but benign compared to the UK, with Trump the anti-Christ at the trade helm we may start seeing the end of times ?

You went off topic so quickly there! ?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Do you know what 'part' means?  The cohesion of Europe can refer to all aspects of cohesion seen in Europe, clearly the largest aspect by a long way is the expansionist EU, therefore a threat to the EU is a threat to European cohesion.

Tell that to British SOE when the UK were trying to help the now smaller EU nations out against German stuff.... Cohesion, your having a laugh...

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

That is what I said.

 

The UK's contribution to the EU budget currently stands at a Net £8 Billion a year.

 

That will stop being passed to Brussels when the UK leaves the EU.

 

Nowhere did I mention a Brexit dividend.

 

You do not have one of these:

 

So I understand your difficulty in reading and comprehending English.

OK so you don't want to refer to a 'Brexit Dividend'.

 

Let's use the exact words you used above and apply the same argument:

 

"The UK's contribution to the EU budget currently stands at a Net £8 Billion a year.

That will stop being passed to Brussels when the UK leaves the EU."

 

On what basis can yo claim that the UK will stop sending £8Billion a year to the EU on leaving the EU?

 

Neither the government nor Brexit supporters know what the final deal is going to be.

 

The government can't allocate money that the government does not have and has no means of being sure it will have.

 

It's another example of one of those British proverbs Brexiteers seem eager to forget.

 

'Don't count your chickens before they hatch'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vogie]

 

Taken from the Guardian, Oct last year but still spot on.

From the continent, remainers’ sudden love for the EU looks like plain hypocrisy

 

If Britain’s remainers feel at home in the EU, they have a funny way of showing it. From a continental perspective, the undying love some remainers have been professing for Europe ever since the Brexitreferendum is puzzling. Because for decades, politicians and commentators in Britain either ignored, misrepresented or sneered at the European project. Now the UK is on its way out, people are suddenly taking to the streets draped in EU flags.

Yet it wasn’t too long ago that many of today’s die-hard remainers used much the same denigrating tone about the EU as the Brexiteers and their tabloid cheerleaders. Take Anna Soubry, the Tory rebel remainer who has even talked about creating a new pro-European party. Back in 2011 she was telling her constituents: “I believe the EU has become a huge, overly costly, bureaucratic organisation fundamentally lacking in both democracy and accountability to the many millions of people who pay for it through their taxes and who are bound to live by its rules”.

Edited June 17, 2018 by vogie

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

OK so you don't want to refer to a 'Brexit Dividend'.

 

Let's use the exact words you used above and apply the same argument:

 

"The UK's contribution to the EU budget currently stands at a Net £8 Billion a year.

That will stop being passed to Brussels when the UK leaves the EU."

 

On what basis can yo claim that the UK will stop sending £8Billion a year to the EU on leaving the EU?

 

Neither the government nor Brexit supporters know what the final deal is going to be.

 

The government can't allocate money that the government does not have and has no means of being sure it will have.

 

It's another example of one of those British proverbs Brexiteers seem eager to forget.

 

'Don't count your chickens before they hatch'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that's the fear - that the uk will continue to send nearly as much money to the eu....

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I do not think it is a case of seeking to have her replaced.

 

It is more of a case that her position is becoming untenable.

 

Seehofer has already sacked the head of BAMF.

They have a problem, there is no viable replacement from the ranks, she is clever, she has become almost a cult figure without trying.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Certainly good news for the NHS! Who could complain about that?

 

Stinks of desperation though and worth reading the detail.

 

It just brings NHS investment back to the average levels seen before austerity and still way below the Blair/Brown era

 

 

 

Full benefits will not be seen until 2023! 5 years from now.

 

3p on basic rate being discussed - still far below what is really required for a civilised society.

 

So, great headline but study the small print....

You might recall the 2008 financial crisis. Try and superimpose UK debt on top of this chart. I know that debt has increased further since 2010 (Tories) but they inherited vast interest payments and the rate of debt increase has been slowed recently. Gordon Brown had a ball from 2008-2010 (up from 50 to 70% of GDP). Another Labour term will bankrupt the country, EU or not. Global debt is waiting for dinner.

Edited June 17, 2018 by nauseus
spelling

[soalbundy]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

Tell that to British SOE when the UK were trying to help the now smaller EU nations out against German stuff.... Cohesion, your having a laugh...

nothing so cohesive as money.