Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[aright]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

They should and will.

 

The Orangutan will be lose against RoW.

 

 

For a start I think threatening to withdraw all American servicemen from Germany  and the likes of Poland might just get him what he wants. 

[StreetCowboy]

13 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Only local elections, not National elections.

Scottish referendum

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Those were not campaign promises of the Remain campaign.  I am asking you a simple question, what in the Remain campaign do you feel was a lie and what did you mean when you said I have recognised that they lied.  Out with it man.

Don’t be mistaken that you are playing by the rules.

 

A man who refuses to accept his own errors when presented with Black an white evidence of where he made an error is not in the least bit bothered by being called out on statements he can’t back up.

His game is cheap points scoring.

 

Understand that and you know all you need to know of his arguments.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You think wrongly; as has been shown at least once in this topic previously.

 

Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens* have the same voting rights in all UK elections and referenda as British citizens do.

So can Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens not also be non - Brits as the poster said ?

 

Quote

after a period of time many non-Brits are elegible to vote in elections as well.

 

Leave to enter, or leave to remain still makes you a non-Brit.

 

Are you sure it is not YOU who is wrong ?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

For a start I think threatening to withdraw all American servicemen from Germany  and the likes of Poland might just get him what he wants. 

It might.

 

But it will certainly give Putin what he wants.

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What does the EU ‘remit’ say about preventing war in a non member state?

Some interesting articles on the Veterans for Britain web page.

 

"However, whether the EU and NATO are travelling in the same or divergent directions is the new question we have to ask. The EU’s insistence on planning its own army (as mentioned in reputable papers here and here) poses a distinct danger to European stability if its record is anything to go by, with the EU falling at a number of hurdles in the past  when it has tried operations of its own, finally having to give way to NATO to solve the crisis."

[StreetCowboy]

18 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Those were not campaign promises of the Remain campaign.  I am asking you a simple question, what in the Remain campaign do you feel was a lie and what did you mean when you said I have recognised that they lied.  Out with it man.

The Remain campaign said quite clearly that voting OUT would make us much worse off, and we're only a little bit worse off so far.  To be fair, we're not out of Europe.  But if not a lie, it was speculation, or maybe a prediction, or analysis, and we don't need analysis by people who know what they're talking about.  Freedom knows no boundaries, or costs, and our children, and their children, will bless us for their priceless freedom, though they may struggle to pay our pensions.

 

Luckily, most Brexit voters have already claimed their pensions, so that is a small price to pay.

 

SC

 

 

[aright]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It might.

 

But it will certainly give Putin what he wants.

Absolutely spot on as a result of which it will influence EU thinking.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Don’t be mistaken that you are playing by the rules.

 

A man who refuses to accept his own errors when presented with Black an white evidence of where he made an error is not in the least bit bothered by being called out on statements he can’t back up.

His game is cheap points scoring.

 

Understand that and you know all you need to know of his arguments.

Quick, carbon copy to keiren. ??

[StreetCowboy]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 You think wrongly; as has been shown at least once in this topic previously.

 

Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens* have the same voting rights in all UK elections and referenda as British citizens do.

 

EU citizens living in the UK can vote in local and European parliament elections. Depending on where they live they can also vote in elections to the Scottish Parliament, Northern Ireland Assembly or Welsh Assembly.

 

Regardless of how long they have lived in the UK, all other non British citizens cannot vote in the UK until and unless they naturalise as British citizens.

 

See Types of election, referendums, and who can vote

 

*A qualifying Commonwealth citizen is a citizen of a Commonwealth country who has leave to enter or remain in the UK, or does not require such leave. As well as the UK, two other EU members, Malta and the Republic of Cyprus, are also Commonwealth countries. For voting matters in the UK, their Commonwealth citizenship takes precedence over their EU citizenship.

Facts.  Mere twiddle - twaddle.  In the post-Brexit, Trump - Putin war on truth, such things, like election promises, will be irrelevant.  We are beyond the age of knowledge.  This is the age of data.  There will be no more lies, no more truth.  If only George Orwell could have seen it, but if he  had, he could not be turning in his grave

Edited June 17, 2018 by StreetCowboy
nothing deleted, comma added

[7by7]

13 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

35 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You challenged a post by another member and called him a liar; he asked you for evidence of that.

And it was provided.

 

If you missed that reply, not my issue.

 Your so called 'response' was a feeble attempt to dodge the question.

 

Prove me wrong by quoting your claimed response.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

For a start I think threatening to withdraw all American servicemen from Germany  and the likes of Poland might just get him what he wants. 

I hope they do.

 

As I say, The Americans are not to be trusted ever.

 

Have a look at that documentary! Interesting!

 

I would certainly prefer to rely upon the EU keeping the peace rather than the USA helping out.

 

The amount of persuasion it took to get them to help out last time!!!

 

Dont forget we gave them nuclear fission, radar, computers and the jet engine! Thank god we still manufacture our own warheads!

 

Frankly, I trust Russia and China more than Trump's America.

 

This is one of the key reasons I am pro remain.

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, Grouse said:

I hope they do.

 

As I say, The Americans are not to be trusted ever.

 

Have a look at that documentary! Interesting!

 

I would certainly prefer to rely upon the EU keeping the peace rather than the USA helping out.

 

The amount of persuasion it took to get them to help out last time!!!

 

Dont forget we gave them nuclear fission, radar, computers and the jet engine! Thank god we still manufacture our own warheads!

 

Frankly, I trust Russia and China more than Trump's America.

 

This is one of the key reasons I am pro remain.

I think you should have phrased that "Russia and China more than Putin's Trump".  Putin may have Russia's interests at heart, and we may be able to negotiate with him on that basis.  He does not have the US' interests at heart, and we cannot negotiate with Sooty on that basis.

[The Renegade]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A man who refuses to accept his own errors when presented with Black an white evidence of where he made an error is not in the least bit bothered by being called out on statements he can’t back up.

His game is cheap points scoring.

I'm still waiting for these errors to be pointed out to me.

 

To do that requires something to back it up, someone saying it does not make it true.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

The Remain campaign said quite clearly that voting OUT would make us much worse off, and we're only a little bit worse off so far.  To be fair, we're not out of Europe.  But if not a lie, it was speculation, or maybe a prediction, or analysis, and we don't need analysis by people who know what they're talking about.  Freedom knows no boundaries, or costs, and our children, and their children, will bless us for their priceless freedom, though they may struggle to pay our pensions.

 

Luckily, most Brexit voters have already claimed their pensions, so that is a small price to pay.

 

SC

 

 

Look what you just did:

 

You presented criticism of a worst case ‘Brexit’ prediction, adding if not a lie a it was speculation.

 

Then you went on to talk about a freedom (priceless freedom) our children and their children will bless us for.

 

You never really thought that out did you.

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Look what you just did:

 

You presented criticism of a worst case ‘Brexit’ prediction, adding if not a lie a it was speculation.

 

Then you went on to talk about a freedom (priceless freedom) our children and their children will bless us for.

 

You never really thought that out did you.

I'm not sure you really helped my point there

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, The Renegade said:

I'm still waiting for these errors to be pointed out to me.

 

To do that requires something to back it up, someone saying it does not make it true.

Your repeated posts a few days back when you mistook ‘newspaper circulation’ for ‘newspaper readership’.

 

You squirmed but never admitted your error.

 

And today you gave us ‘8 billion not being sent to the EU’, despite the final deal not being in place. Your games around ‘Brexit Dividend’ being in the MSM links you posted and hence not used by you were amusing but you were still wrong - The final deal is not yet signed, your declarations of PM May out doing the Brexit 350 million were wrong.

 

I do not expect you to man up.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

Back in the day, I thought that Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish people were pretty much only distinguishable by our accents, and we were a pretty much one United Kingdom.  And our cousins across the border on the Emerald Isle were not so different.  And we were part of one society, one continent with our neighbours, and despite a bit of Barnes Wallis banter and a few Wembley goal posts between friends, it was all pretty good natured, and the British Isles, and the European continent, had pretty much achieved peace amongst ourselves.

 

Tell me again how Brexit is going to reinforce that peace?

 

Transam's dad fought in the last war; I don't want my children to fight in the next one.

This unnecessary line of comment sniffs of a continuation of Project Fear.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

So can Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens not also be non - Brits as the poster said ?

 

 

Leave to enter, or leave to remain still makes you a non-Brit.

 

Are you sure it is not YOU who is wrong ?

 You attempts at petty point scoring  are merely making yourself look even more of a fool than previously; if such a thing is possible.

 

Before attempting to 'prove' my information is wrong, you should have checked my source; the UK government. I did, after all, provide a link to it.

 

Here it is again: Types of election, referendums, and who can vote (Hint: hold your mouse over the bit in bold, that's the bit that's darker than the rest, and then click the right or left button depending on which you use.)

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, nauseus said:

This unnecessary line of comment sniffs of a continuation of Project Fear.

I like to think of it as Project Prudence.  

I'm young enough to have children to fight in the next war.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The campaign promise stated what leaving meant, if they cannot keep those promises then the referendum choices were not clear, if it were a legal contract it would be voided, the same should be true for referendums otherwise they can persuade the public into signing almost anything under false premises.

Please display THE official campaign promise. You have 90 days.

[7by7]

13 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I'm still waiting for these errors to be pointed out to me.

 

To do that requires something to back it up, someone saying it does not make it true.

 

 There are too many to point them all out, so for one example of your errors being corrected I refer you to my post 

"someone saying it does not make it true. " Unless, it appears, it is you saying it!

Edited June 17, 2018 by 7by7

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

EU certainly. Amazing you don't understand that. 

 

NATO has only ever been called on under the mutual defence provisions and that was by the USA

 

Much has been written on this point and I will not regurgitate it to satisfy your appetite 

 

This is a good article

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2016/05/how-valid-claim-eu-has-delivered-peace-europe

 

No doubt to be shot down with some facile comments

What a crock.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Please display THE official campaign promise. You have 90 days.

 

Now you are holding on to a typo?  I meant to write promises. 

 

And when you going to man up and either answer my question or admit that you were wrong?

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What a crock.

Is that an Americanism?

 

Ex forces people always think NATO is great. They should read more

[aright]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I hope they do.

 

As I say, The Americans are not to be trusted ever.

 

Have a look at that documentary! Interesting!

 

I would certainly prefer to rely upon the EU keeping the peace rather than the USA helping out.

 

The amount of persuasion it took to get them to help out last time!!!

 

Dont forget we gave them nuclear fission, radar, computers and the jet engine! Thank god we still manufacture our own warheads!

 

Frankly, I trust Russia and China more than Trump's America.

 

This is one of the key reasons I am pro remain.

Yes we could be brothers in arms with the Germans beating all before us.

 

Soldiers used broomsticks painted black instead of guns during a joint Nato exercise last year due to severe equipment shortages, it has emerged.

The incident took place during exercises for Nato's rapid response force, formed in reaction to the Ukraine crisis, which is supposed to be ready to deploy anywhere it is needed at very short notice.

Soldiers in the Panzergrenadierbataillon 371 took part in the exercises last September in Norway.

The troops were missing 31 per cent of their MG3 general-purpose machine guns, 41 per cent of their P8 handguns, and more than three-quarters of their Lucie night-vision devices.

Soldiers resorted to painting broomsticks black and attaching them to Boxer armoured vehicles to simulate gun barrels.

The German Defence Ministry sought to downplay the incident, saying the Boxer vehicles in question were being used as mobile headquarters, and were never supposed to be armed.

The shortages of handguns and machine-guns have since been rectified, a spokesman said.

It emerged last month that the German military was also using ordinary Mercedes vans as stand-ins for armoured personnel carriers during training because of equipment shortages.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11420627/German-army-used-broomsticks-instead-of-guns-during-training.html

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

This unnecessary line of comment sniffs of a continuation of Project Fear.

The continuous use of the term 'Project Fear' for any argument against leaving the UK, both before the referendum and since, merely shows that those using it have zero ability to argue against the points raised.

 

 As does responding to a post with 

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What a crock.

 

Which is why the Remain campaign and those of us who supported it did not and do not, to the best of my recollection, use such terms in response to all the dire predictions from Brexiteers of what would happen had we remained in the EU or were to leave it on terms they disagree with!

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I like to think of it as Project Prudence.  

I'm young enough to have children to fight in the next war.

Well for all our sakes I hope there won't be one. But if there is it won't be due to Brexit.

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Now you are holding on to a typo?  I meant to write promises. 

 

And when you going to man up and either answer my question or admit that you were wrong?

What was the official leave campaign promise? 89 days 23 hours and 15 mins remaining.

[aright]

33 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Dont forget we gave them nuclear fission, radar, computers and the jet engine! Thank god we still manufacture our own warheads!

 

 

Any ideas where we can find the extra $66 B to do a good job.